: Rear Brake -- Head Ache
May 27th, 06, 08:49 PM
I have a 69 that has been sitting for about 20 years. Decided to try to do the brakes first. Started on the rear brakes today. I encountered a couple of problems.
First, I could not get the brake line off the cylinder... the nut just stripped out. So I cut the lines and went out and got new hard lines. While I was there I decided to get new rubber lines --- one for the rear and 2 for the front discs.
After I rebuilt the brakes, I went to take the the center (rubber) line out of the block it attaches to, and those lines are all rusted tight too. I sprayed it with WD 40 and I am hoping that it will free it up by tomorrow, but I am not too hopeful. I REALLY don't want to cut that line if I don't have to because, if I do, I will have to replace the brake line all the way back to at least the pressure regulator. If I can't disconnect it from there, I will have to replace the entire brake line, and I haven't even started with thte front ones yet.
Need some advice. Do I:
Need a special tool?
Need some "mogic juice" to free up the rust?
Just bite the bullet and replace the entire brake line all the way back to the master cylinder?
May 27th, 06, 08:55 PM
If the lines are that rusty, it might be better to just bite the bullet... do it right, you'll only do it once.
Are you using a tubing wrench? It's a special wrench that's like a box wrench with just enough cut out of the end to slip over the tubing, gives a much better bite on the nuts.
Use something better than wd40. Liquid wrench or PB Blaster. My local ace carries a penetrating oil from Marvel Mystery Oil that works really well.
once a stuck fastener breaks loose, you have to "work it" back and forth, a lil at a time. The problem (rust) doesn't magically go away just because it moved. on a bolt, it will be all the way up the threads, on a brake line, the nut will not want to spin on the tubing, and will twist it and break it if you're not careful.
Heat. I never did it on a brake line, and I'm not sure if it's a good idea (we'll hear about it quick if it ain't) but a propane torch does wonders on rusty stuck fasteners.
May 27th, 06, 09:58 PM
Heat...real quick thu
Dont use LPG put the acetynene torch on fine flame, heat break the 'seal' and pour water over fast.
Chances are u will be alright, but if there is a blockage elseware...
May 27th, 06, 10:20 PM
"Are you using a tubing wrench?"
Yes. Bought one today while in the middle of the project. But, it came from Kragens, and I don't think it was a high quality one. I started to see if it would break it loose, but it seemed as if it was starting to spin. I pulled out an 11m metric open end wrench, and it seemed to have a tighter fit. My friend from New Zeland was helping me... said 11m wasn't that puioplar and might have a hard time finding a tubing wrench in that size.
"Use something better than wd40. ....My local ace carries a penetrating oil from Marvel Mystery Oil..."
I picked up some Marvel Mystery Oil 2 days ago. I didn't know why... I read about it here on TC a while back, so I bought some just to have. I checked the bottle... it says "Marvel Mystery Oil ... Ultimate Engine Protection"..... is that the same stuff, or is there a different one that is a "penetrating" oil?
My friend from NZ said something about putting heat on it. Just wanted to know... what's the worst thing that could happen? As it stands now I might have to replace all the lines anyway. Wondering if there is something I could screw up if I use heat (actually, my friend will be using the torch, not me. He knows what he's doing, at least compared to me LOL)
Thanks for the help
May 27th, 06, 10:27 PM
Hey..u got a Kiwi ther m8?
leave it up to him...
But he will need a piece of number 8 wire thu....
Ask him about it he will explain it to u...
Where is he from?...is he a JAFA?
May 27th, 06, 10:57 PM
Ok------- #8 wire............ got it........ I have no clue what that means, but I'm sure he will. He used to be a welder. I'm not sure what part of NZ he's from, but I sent him an email and will lete you know when he replies... may not be until tomorrow, though.
May 27th, 06, 11:19 PM
Bite the bullet.
Or you can splice it somewhere further up where the line is clean.
The T-fitting can also be replaced.
Worst case of (a lot of) heat on brake fluid is an explosion... well, usually just pops the rubber hose if the system is still sealed, maybe some fire. If the system is open, it might just spit fire out instead. Brake fluid is flammable. If you do it as instructed by Steptoe, you should be fine. It's just a little startling if you don't expect it.
What happens after you actually get the fitting slightly loose from the 'T', even with heat, is that the line flare itself is stuck tight to the fitting, so the line tries to twist with the fitting. More heat sometimes works, or PB blaster soaking. Your MMoil should work almost as well.
If you get the fitting to move but the line wants to spin with it, you might be able to remove the 'T' from the bracket since you have the other lines off of it, and spin it off of the line rather than spinning the fitting from it. Then just a slight bit of heat on the line flare will bust it from the fitting.
Bite the bullet or splice ;)
edit: realized the hose itself wont have the sticking line flare problem, so ignore that. Once it spins, it will come out.
May 28th, 06, 01:54 AM
I have done this on several, very old cars in the past.
Never even hinted at fire /explosion...there maybe no risk at all???
I only reason why Im nervous when doing it is..
As a Kid, as kids used to do, we do some dumb things and got away with it.
Parants had a 45gal drum cut as an incinerator in the back yard...it was one that had a clip on lid....I had a lot of loose paper in the bottom, on a hot day...so I throw a jam jar of old brake fuild in, lid on the incinerator, and leave for a few minutes.....stand back far enough to throw a burning paper ball with a little kero on, into bottom of the incinerator.
The lid ended up on the other side of the neighbours yard...I was blown on my asse with singed hair and eye brows, An my Mum thought the kitchen windows where going to blow in....we had a 1/4 acre section.
I have tryed to burn brake fluid, and quite frankly, after the above...it is pretty disapointing...
But im still cautious.
May 28th, 06, 07:32 AM
Bite the bullet...these are BRAKES we're talking about...right? The time, effort and expense will be worth it the first time you have to step down hard!
May 28th, 06, 08:53 AM
After I had one hose pop on me, the system stays open when heating. After having another hose pop on me with fire shooting out, the hose would get cut next to the fitting before heat.
It took a lot of heat, applied by me being in a hurry. I later learned to just take the line clip loose, bend the line out a little, and unscrew the hose from the line, then apply a little heat to the flare. This was almost always on FWD Dodge/Chrysler.
In the high volume shop in the rust belt, nearly every one of them over 5yrs old had split brake hoses that required replacement. I couldn't count how many i worked on. I never had it happen on an older domestic when replacing hoses.
So, yes, there is a risk.
May 28th, 06, 08:59 AM
I don't have a problem spending the money. It's probably less than $100.00 for the rest of the brake line and that pressure regulator. I just hate the thought of having to do all that extra work just because I can't get one little screw off.
Just for the record, this is all a first for me...especially the working-on-cars-with-tools part. It took me about 5 1/2 hours to do the rear brakes yesterday but now, because I have the experience behind me and consider myself somewhat of an expert, I could probably get it done in less than 5 hours if I had to do it again. Actually, I'm thinking of writing a book:
"How to turn a 30 minute brake replacement into a 2 week project". Looking for a publisher, if you know a good one. I could doa book signing at next year's TC get together... by then I will have finished the front brakes and probably even done the front ones too. http://www.camaros.net/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif
At the rate I am going it will be a weeks worth of work just to get the brakes done, and I haven't even started to get into the real mechanical stuff. Not trying to take shortcuts... just hoping to be able to drive it off my property sometime this year. I might have bit off more than I can chew, but this is part of the journey... I'm actually enjoying it. I know the rewards at the end of the road will be worth it. Thanks for all the suggestions and we'll see what happens when I get a torch over here... to be continued.
May 28th, 06, 09:08 AM
After reading ohcscott's post, I will scrap the torch idea. Guess I'll have to track down all the parts needed to replace the entire line and go for it. Besides the brake line from the rear back, and the pressure regulator, are there any other parts I will need. I know that the 2 metal brake lines in the rear and the rubber one have metal ends on them, but it looks like there is a metal clip or something holding them together.
Are there any other clips, brackets, switches that I will need to order to replace the whole brake line?
I noticed that there are clips mounted on the car itself that just hold the hose in place as it travels along the bottom of the car... these are all good. But that junction where the 2 steel and one rubber line comes together in the rear was just hanging free. The junction is right where the rear end is....is there supposed to be something that holds it up there in place?
May 28th, 06, 09:25 AM
1. everything will take longer than expected.
2. everything will cost more than budgeted
3. as every step of the project is moved from the "todo" to the "done" column it will be yours, you will know it and own it. You will be a "car guy."
Jun 17th, 06, 12:58 PM
OK - The rear brakes are DONE:) --- Now I have thr front brakes totally disassembled. I know, I know.... I should have left one of them complete so I would have an example to do them, but I had to take the rotors in to have them turned and didn't want to do them piecemeal. I brought the hubs in too and had the guy wash out all the old grease and he ordered some new seals and new berings too. So, here's what I have:
I picked up new front brake lines... figured that since I replaced the rear lines, might as well replace the front lines too. The plan is to pack the berings with grease and install all the new parts. Questions:
What is the procedure? What is step one, step 2, etc.?
Should I replace the proportioning valve for the rear, since I have put everything else in new?
Should I go ahead and replace (or rebuild?) the Master Cylinder and Brake Booster, or wait to see how it goes?
I have thr original calipers for the front. Are they date coded, eg; should I keep them for my later "back to original restoration", or turn them for the core charge? I have an original #'s car and will want to bring it all the way back to orig someday.Thanks,