Well I thought I would post my frustrations in a prayer that maybe someone else ran int o this problem.

One of the top cylinders or line had a leak so I bought new repro lines and cylinders and installed a few weeks ago. Bled the sys but no movement at all from the top. I bleed more and fill the motor more.... Still no movement, nothing! I add more fluid while the switch is depressed sucking in more fuild until it blows the middle o-ring out of the motor. So I buy a new repro motor/pump from Rick's and mess with it again this weekend. I hook the new motor up only this time I use the tube from the tranny bottle method as suggested here. I see the fluid being sucked into the motor so all looks good, I keep the button on till it stops sucking and replace the stopper... OK the moment of truth.... I hit the switch to put the top up, I hear the pitch in the motor change to indicate a load, I patiently wait, and wait, and wait.... IT DOESN"T BUDGE ONE FREAKIN INCH!!!!!!!!! nothing just noise.... I don't get it, I have tried everything! I even had 5 of my neighbors look, 3 of which are certified SAE mechanics and all of them are muscle car guys with a combined 100 freakins years experience and they left scratching their heads... WTF!!!!!


So here is where I stand:
original motor - no movement, lots of noise, blown o ring
repro motor - no movement lots of noise
no leaks, no mechanical binding (two people can lower and raise the top easy)

Rick's is gratious enough to send another new motor jsut in case this one is releasing pressure, and I'm trying to get in touch with the place I bought the cylinders off of to see if they'll replace those as well.


PLEASE tell my what you think for right now its el-manual top for the forseeable future.

Thanks guys!

Rob

Rob, I am a little confused. The proper bleeding procedure requires you to raise and lower the top a bunch of times to get the air out while you are filling the lines. If you filled the pump and put the plug in while the top was in the down position the whole time, that would explain it. Let me search around for the procedure.

I hear what you are saying, but we did what you are saying as well. With the help of 2 other guys (two moving the top up and down manually and one bleeding and filling the motor) it got to the point were we finally could not raise the top manually ( the pistons were full ) which is the way it should be, I then tried the motor and it would not budge...

IDUNNO!:confused:


Kevin, I just noticed where you're from, I'm in Old Bridge.... Your invited to come see for yourself if you like:D

That sounds strange, you should not need people pulling on the top. When you use the switch to raise and lower the top, it should pull fluid in and pump air bubbles out. You should also see the red fluid going through the lines. It almost sounds like the lines are reversed, but you would see one side or the other straining against the other side.

Where are you at in old Bridge? I'm a little south of there.

That sounds strange, you should not need people pulling on the top. When you use the switch to raise and lower the top, it should pull fluid in and pump air bubbles out. You should also see the red fluid going through the lines. It almost sounds like the lines are reversed, but you would see one side or the other straining against the other side.

Where are you at in old Bridge? I'm a little south of there.


Strange indeed, one of the guys helping me has a 72 Chevelle vert and did his whole ptop sys over a few years ago so he's been there already and he left scratching his head....I'm leaning toward the cylinders being bad, but what are the chances both are not working??? My thoughts that even if one cyl was bad it would push one side up, would't it. As far as having the lines conected wrong I followed the way they came off, two goingto the tops of the cyl and the other 2 going to the bottom, Right?


I'm right near where 516 crosses over rt 18 off e-town rd(527) are you familiar with the OB diner?

Rob, I am not too familier with OB up there. Its about 15 miles from me.

Have you disconnected the rams from the top? If not, disconnect them, raise top out of the way and try the pump. if the cyls dont move, you have to disconnect the lines and make sure the pump is pumping fluid through the lines (messy, I know). Also, you should be able to move the cyls by hand without the lines hooked up.

You have to start eliminating possible problems to find what is really happening.

Caution here. I tried to collapse a ram by hand and when it did collapse it shot fluid about 200 feet out the fitting for the hose connection.

Testing the rams disconnected from the top sounds like the next logical step. The symptoms say to me the hoses are reversed on one ram and they are fighting when you try to fill and operate the top. It would explain the part where it got so nobody could move the top. You got the system as full and purged as it would get and it became a stale mate for the rams...

your situation sounds strange. i too would try to eliminate the possiblity of it being the rams by disconnecting it form the top so there is no load on the rams. but if it wsa only one ram, then you would see a little movement. also, i would think if the hoses were reversed, you would see some tweeking of the top frame. was this originally an power top or was it replaced at anypoint? if you have a manual top frame with the hydrolics attached to it, i dont think it will lift the top due the different designs

angel

Sounds like both lines for the up are attached to one cylinder and both for the down are attached to the other cylinder. Remove both lines for the up, which will be the bottom of the cylinders, and see if fluid comes out of both lines.

Here's a link to proper top bleed procedure from the servvice manual.

http://www.1stgencamaro.net/convertibletopbleed.html

Very cool Gene - That supports what some of us have been doing and recommending for a while now. http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82366&highlight=fill+top

What service manual did you pull that from? My '69 chassis service manual doesn't have a section on folding tops. Hope GM or who ever has the rights to the book doesn't come after you asking you to remove them from your site like I know others have had happen...

When I was bleeding the system from another manufacturer, I bench bled the system with the pump on the bench and the cylinders below it.

Held the cylinders in the direction for motion pointing up so all the air would go to the top of the stroke. Turn over the cylinders and reverse pump direction. Perform several times and a solid system after, then installed the hydraulics as a whole.

Before replacing fill plug, be sure cylinders are retracted.

What service manual did you pull that from? My '69 chassis service manual doesn't have a section on folding tops. Hope GM or who ever has the rights to the book doesn't come after you asking you to remove them from your site like I know others have had happen...

67 chassis service manual.....
If I ever am forced to remove it, I'll keep it available for download

Sorry I was out of town yesterday...

I'll try to answer all of your suggestions:

Kevin: I haven't disconnected the rams from the top yet, that was my next move to do this weekend and sounds like a logical next step. Thanks

Dennis: I hear you about the shooting fluid, been there already. The rams moved by hand when I first installed them so no binding, I really cannot see how the lines could be connected wrong. I copied the way they were when I replaced them from the original. If your looking at the motor where it should sit behind the seat the front port of the motor has a Tee fitting which splits the lines to the right and left which then connect to the bottom of each ram. Then in back of the motor another Tee fitting does the same thing to connect to the tops of each ram. RIGHT???
Besides its a simple push/pull system right so even if they were reversed it would still work, only in reverse.

I'm mean when I say not a budge, I mean not a budge not even a quiver, fart, twitch, nothing!!!


Brett: I just don't see how they could be reveresed or connected wrong. Its moving fluid because when we were bleeding the sys I would loosen the fitting at the bottom of each ram one at a time and bleed fluid into a bottle.

Everett: I think I'm going to bench bleed the damn thing when I get the new motor and rams. I just hate having to remove those rams again. We all know how much fun they are to get in!!! Gotta love Gm for placing thos bolts behind the rams right next to the quarter panel bracing and whatnot!!! They must have used child labor back in 69 cause my big meat hooks have trouble getting in there!


Well I have another new motor from Rick's on the way and I should have a new set of rams next week so till then the saga continues...

Oh!, BTW someone ask if it was a retro fit power setup? No it is a factory power top that I had to replace a leaking ram/line on...

As a suggestion for you convert owners, during the winter months for those of you who drive your car and those of you who might store the car outside or don't have an environment controlled storage space;

When not using top, disconnect the rams at the top frame and "lower" the rams. This places the cylinder rod inside the ram and protects the rod from rusting and tearing up the seal, the reason for replacing the ram in the first place.

Rob - I'm suggesting only one being hooked up backwards. Then when you push the button one wants to raise the top and the other wants to lower it. When I lost a single ram my pump groaned but the top didn't move an inch and it didn't even twitch... I could run the motor and lift with one hand on the top and it would move.

Unhooking the rams from the top should tell all here... Keep us posted.

Had another thought, do your rams pivot properly? If they don't pivot when operating them they won't raise or lower the top...

Had another thought, do your rams pivot properly? If they don't pivot when operating them they won't raise or lower the top...

They pivot fine, I even loosened the bolts all around a little just to ensure no mech bind issues.

I will disconnect the top from the rams anf try it again... I'll keep you all posted on my pos!

Well here is the latest with my convertible marathon. I'm still waiting to get another motor from Ricks's, so I decide to do a few other things to the car, install new brake, clutch pedals, finish painting some parts and start to prep the floors for POR15, anyway, I decide its been too long since it had a bath and to wash all the dust off her. I try to pull the top up manually but its still connected to the rams so I have a neighbor try to help me but we can only move it a foot or so. I'm thinking its because there's fluid in the system. So I decide to re-connect my old leaking motor just to release some pressure and help it go up. I hit the switch to go up, and the F-ING THING WORKS!!!! It's got tons of air in it so it didn't go up all the way but it MOVED! SON OF A B****! I cannot for the life on my figure out why now all of a sudden it decides to work.... UNBELIEVABLE! They only guess I have is that I had two problems. One was being air bound big time, and the other was that the first Rick's motor was defective....

So now I'm waiting for the new motor from Rick's and will hope and pray that it works this weekend.

What a freakin saga!

Did you please any gods over the weekend?

Did you please any gods over the weekend?


Can't imagine that I did, all I've been doing is cursing alot for the past few weeks. LOL!