For anyone contemplating selling their classic car, please read the following:
I'm a police officer in the Cleveland, OH area. Last week I saw a '72 chevelle driving in the opposite lanes. The driver gave me a couple of cues that are common to someone who is engaging in criminal activity and just saw a police officer. I flipped around and ran the plate, which returned as a '69 Chevy. Obviously not a '69, I stopped the car. Upon seeing the VIN, I immediately believed the car to be stolen. It was afixed to the dash with black adhesive and had extruded out around the sides. No rivets were to be found anywhere. It also returned to a '69 Chevy. The driver tried to explain the styling differences as "updated panels". Barely able to refrain from thunderous guffaws, I played dumb and allowed the man to keep talking. He succeeded in digging a nice hole for himself.

Making a long story bearable, I impounded the car and was able to get a CON VIN lifted from the firewall, which returned, sure enough, to a stolen '72 Chevelle from the Cincinnati area. The car was reported stolen in early February. Investigation revealed that the car was actually obtained fraudulently, rather than by covert theft. The seller accepted a bank check for well over $20,000 and later discovered the check was counterfeit.

The car was taken by a black male in his mid to late 20's who had his alleged grandmother call the seller to reassure him about accepting the check on a non-business day (Sunday). He is apparently somewhat intelligent sounding and personable. He operates in and possibly around Ohio and uses the same last name every time, which I won't divulge for investigation integrity reasons Speaking with a trooper on a task force investigating a muscle car-only theft ring in NE Ohio, this male has fleeced several others in the same manner. He responds to Muscle Car Trader ads and pays with a bank check. Apparently, the theft ring is expanding its territory to points far from Cleveland. He likes to transact business on late Saturdays and Sundays when banks are closed and can't verify checks or funds. The car was quickly repainted and changed hands a few times. He also works with accomplices. I won't say anymore so as not to risk compromising an ongoing investigation, but if you know of any instances or victims similar to this, or need any specifics to help determine whether you know of this person, PM me.

Do yourself a favor and don't accept a check that cannot be verified before surrendering the car. Don't take the word of a grandmother. Ask to see their driver's license to see if the face matches and the name matches the one they tell you. Also you can note their hometown. Don't trust anyone who won't give you or says they don't have a hardline home phone number.
Someone will eventually buy your car. Just make sure it's someone who intends to pay for it.

All muscle cars and the like are very coveted by thieves for their high demand and ease of laundering VIN's as compared to later cars. If you see any VIN on any car that does not look completely intact and original, question it and report it to police, absence a good explanation. And don't just assume there must be one because it's a 35 year-old car. ANY tampering of a VIN is illegal.

WOW!!! Good lookin out,thanx for the heads up.:thumbsup:
Russ.

I find it interesting that someone would put themselves in that position. I would never accept a check on good faith no matter who you are. I recently sold my 70 pro street Nova and I told the buyer that once the check cleared and the funds were available in my account, I would release the car to him. If that wasn't acceptable, then I thank you for your interest but no transaction would take place. How anyone would not want to protect themsleves from fraud or unscrupulous people is beyond me.

I think what happens is that people sometimes go through cycles of trust and mistrust or faith and cynicism or however you want to say it. People get burned themselves or hear of it happening to others and become cautious for awhile, then let their guard down. They get burned some time later and the cycle repeats. After talking to this old guy who originally had the car, I think that's what happened to him. He said he never would have agreed to it, but the guy's grandmother called and made him feel bad for the kid. So it ends up being a con game, rather than outright hotwiring it in your driveway in the middle of the night.

Interestingly enough, the auto theft task force trooper that came to examine the car walked into the property garage and immediately zoomed in on a Yamaha ATV that had been impounded. It turns out that he had been looking for one of those that had been taken in the same manner by the same people. Same bank and check number, etc. Long story short, it was his missing cycle, and the suspects altered the paperwork and were able to get a new title with two of the characters altered, so it didn't return as stolen in the database. I noticed the discrepancy in the VIN, which is 17 characters just like a car, which was a red flag. The real VIN was in the system as stolen. It looks like this guy has been diversifying his portfolio, so if you are selling any vehicle that has a serial number, and you live in or around Ohio, be careful.

I think as a buyer, I would have a problem leaving a check with someone and waiting for them to say it cleared. Would be easy for them to take your cashed check and disappear.

If you have a certified check, will the bank tell you immediately that it is good?

One of my friends had put his motorcycle up for sale. A guy came and looked at it and put down a $100 cash deposit. He went to get a cashier's check and came back in a cab. He said, "All that is left is a test drive". Never seen the bike or the guy again.

I think as a buyer, I would have a problem leaving a check with someone and waiting for them to say it cleared. Would be easy for them to take your cashed check and disappear.

If you have a certified check, will the bank tell you immediately that it is good?

I agree, however, that is the basis for these types of transactions. There has to be some level of trust between the parties involved. A good rule of thumb is "trust, but verify".

I run a small business and all financial institutions hold checks no matter what they are called. You cannot cash a cashiers or certified check unless you have money in your account to cover the check till it clears, they will put on hold of those funds and you cannot get them. No paper is instant anymore with these printers and clever crooks who can fake anything. Cash is not even safe, they are still looking for a gang of people who were passing phoney $20 bills around here last year. Lots of business got stuck with these. They went to stores and bought high end electronic and other stuff the could sell anywhere. One store cleak caught the fact that all the 20's had the same serial number but more than a dozen never did.

A Chevy dealer here was conned out of a new Blazer some years back circa 1996. Guy opened an account in this bank on Monday with $50,000 check deposit. On tuesday he buys a new Blazer with a check written on that account. The people at the small dealer were more concerned with selling it than veriifying the money existed. Come to find out, the guy conterfieted the check he depsoited in the bank and when the dealer deposited the check on Weds it bounced. The guy (college student majoring in computer science) had it all planned out and the dealers staff inattentiveness made it easy for him the drive away with the Blazer. They did catch the guy a couple weeks later but he was over 1000 miles away and the Blazer got wrecked when he tried to avoid a police stop. A friend got hired to go and retrieve it for the dealer. He said it was junk, the guy was a pig and trashed it beyond belief. The dealers insurance would not cover it, dealer was at fault for letting the vehicle go without confirming the money. I bet they don't trust everybody who walks in now.


What I have done in the past is go to the buyers bank and have them transfer the money to your bank. I did that with a Blazer I sold and it worked great. He was going to give me a check for $25,000 and I was not comfortable with this and I asked him to tell his loan officer this is what I wanted, my CU suggested I do it this way. The bank and the Credit Union was able to handle this in minutes and since they were the one handling the money, it was instant transaction, no waiting for checks to clear. I walked out of the bank with the money and him with the Blazer.