A friend has decided to restore a 69 rust bucket he has owned for 30 years. It is an RS/SS convertible White with Orange stripes and Orange Houndstooth. Has a 350, and all the correct SS equipment. He has always maintained it is a '69 Pace car, at least that's what the junk yard told him when he purchased it for $150 and hauled it home in boxes. He now is wondering if it is indeed a real Pace Care replica.
This car is indeed intriguing as it is a Los Angeles car. I have not yet checked the engine codes, and the partial hidden VIN in the panel below the hood valence louvers is unreadable.

Best as I can recall:

VIN: 124679L502xxx

Cowl:

ST 69 12467 VNxxxxxx BDY
TR 720 50 A PNT
03C xxxx

I am not up on Camaro data like I was 10 years ago, but I see a discrepancy already. The serial # would seem to indicate a very early September '68 or so build date in Los Angeles, disqualifying it as a Pace Car replica. However, the mid-later LA cars switched to VN on the cowl instead of LOS. Also, the 03C build date, 720 (Orange Houndstooth) and 50 A PNT (Dover White, white top) could qualify it as a Pace car. I forget how the orange stripes where designated if at all on the VN cowl tags. What's more, the stripes were painted the incorrect 70's style that curved around. I also thought all 3000+ Pace Car Convertible Replicas were Norwood cars with Z11 on the tag and built from Feb-May '69. I don't understand how this low a serial # could have a later VN cowl tag. Everything appears un-altered.
My theory is that the car was originally a white SS/RS convertible with a white top and orange houndstooth interior. In order to make a hasty closeout sale to a customer demanding a Pace car, the dealer may have added quick 70's stripes in Hugger Orange. (Maybe it is now 1970, new Camaros have arrived and no more Norwood Z11's available)
I really have no idea. Just a theory !
Thanks,
JohnnyZ

Van Nuys cars had the stripe color on the cowl for Z's and PCs. Does the car have the firewall preforations for the RS headlights and the ZL2 hood ? How about some photos... My Van Nuys Z is a 03D car and the vin is 528144 so if your memory is correct then there is a problem with the VIN vs the build date.

With the VIN being in that date range, looks like a VIN or trim tag swap.

Try again to get the hidden VINs, to make sure the VIN plate on the dash hasnt been swapped. And of course, try to get all the other numbers off of the car that you can.

Im sure some of the guys that are smarter about PCs than myself will chime in.

dave

Couldn't get a 720 interior, or any houndstooth interior in any convertible except a pace car. All LA built Camaros with a 720 interior, and 50 A exterior are pace cars. That said there is an issue with the VIN if its written down correctly, the one given is a September/October of 68 vin, LA didn't start building pace cars until March of 69.

Thanks for the replies,
I am sure that the serial # is 502xxx, and the cowl tag info is correct as well. I will check on the firewall RS deal and check the engine #s next time I see the car. Thing is, the tag and VIN locations look entirely unaltered. I will also try and get some photos in the future. Is there a specific stripe code I should look for on the tag ?
Thanks again,

Edit: called owner at work and he states there is a gromett for the vacumn hoses in the firewall if this helps.

Is there still a gas tank in it ? Drop the tank and look for a build sheet. Z11 would be on the sheet.

Thanks I'll pass that on.

If you are sure the VIN is L502XXX then the tag is not orignal to the car. That VIN does not match the time of the tag. Are you sure it's not L520xxx??

Positive that it is L502514. This VIN is also on his original receipt from the junk yard (the fellow is a pack rat). Did Camaro cowl tags get moved and faked 30 years ago ? I do know the car has been in storage this entire time and driven very sparingly.
As you can tell from my member sign up date, I have not posted for 7 years myself, as my Hugger Orange 69 Z has been in hibernaton (and appreciating nicely I may add !) ever since.

Fake tags 30 years ago, not sure about that. Not likely.

But stolen cars that had the VIN plate on the dash swapped was happening. Check the hidden VINs. If they dont match, or have been tampered with in order not to read them, then that raises some flags for sure.


dave

A friend has decided to restore a 69 rust bucket he has owned for 30 years. It is an RS/SS convertible White with Orange stripes and Orange Houndstooth. Has a 350, and all the correct SS equipment. He has always maintained it is a '69 Pace car, at least that's what the junk yard told him when he purchased it for $150 and hauled it home in boxes. He now is wondering if it is indeed a real Pace Care replica.
This car is indeed intriguing as it is a Los Angeles car. I have not yet checked the engine codes, and the partial hidden VIN in the panel below the hood valence louvers is unreadable.

Best as I can recall:

VIN: 124679L502xxx

Cowl:

ST 69 12467 VNxxxxxx BDY
TR 720 50 A PNT
03C xxxx

I am not up on Camaro data like I was 10 years ago, but I see a discrepancy already. The serial # would seem to indicate a very early September '68 or so build date in Los Angeles, disqualifying it as a Pace Car replica. However, the mid-later LA cars switched to VN on the cowl instead of LOS. Also, the 03C build date, 720 (Orange Houndstooth) and 50 A PNT (Dover White, white top) could qualify it as a Pace car. I forget how the orange stripes where designated if at all on the VN cowl tags. What's more, the stripes were painted the incorrect 70's style that curved around. I also thought all 3000+ Pace Car Convertible Replicas were Norwood cars with Z11 on the tag and built from Feb-May '69. I don't understand how this low a serial # could have a later VN cowl tag. Everything appears un-altered.
My theory is that the car was originally a white SS/RS convertible with a white top and orange houndstooth interior. In order to make a hasty closeout sale to a customer demanding a Pace car, the dealer may have added quick 70's stripes in Hugger Orange. (Maybe it is now 1970, new Camaros have arrived and no more Norwood Z11's available)
I really have no idea. Just a theory !
Thanks,
JohnnyZ

That is a rather early VIN to trim tag build date but it is known that VN PaceCars have irregular issues regarding date lines....Thats the earliest VIN Ive seen for a VN car...if it were a true PaceCar assembled.

I bought a 69 Z that had been in storage in Los Angeles that was a theft recovery and it had other tags on it....Norwood ones. The only way I found the tags were wrong was when I stripped the car and found the 2 partial stamped ID's of a Los built car....then I dropped the tank and found the build sheet of a genuine Z....thought all my Xmas' had come at once !!
Look for the partial Vin under the heater cover in the engine bay , it is usually protected and should be easy to read. I hope for your friend it is genuine. Drop the tank too. Shane...

Definately a swapped Trim Tag. My LA built car has the wrong trim tag on it, as well (for no apparent reason)...... it did happen.

My car is an original Rallye Green car (79) ... but now it has an Azure turq. (55) / white interior tag on it. You tell me why and I'll buy ya a beer! :lol:

Thanks again,
Will try to get to some of those hidden codes. Friend is now a bit mad at me for insinuating it may not be a Pace Car Replica (!) , so I have to be a little incognito while looking around his car.

I would rather it be fake than stolen. If the VIN,s don't match then it just might be.

My Pace Car is an 03D, VIN L527XXX, so I agree the range is definitely off.

Interesting conundrum: Not sure whether I would be hoping the VIN is wrong and it's actually a Pace Car, or hoping the Trim Tag is wrong and it's not stolen!

Hey Chevy Thunder, what's your sequencing number, mine is R476?

My Pace Car is an 03D, VIN L527XXX, so I agree the range is definitely off.

Interesting conundrum: Not sure whether I would be hoping the VIN is wrong and it's actually a Pace Car, or hoping the Trim Tag is wrong and it's not stolen!

Hey Chevy Thunder, what's your sequencing number, mine is R476?


U382 .. a little late but I just found this thread :)

They were faking Corvette trim tags 30 yrs ago.

U382 .. a little late but I just found this thread :)

Just a little. But I like the effort of getting the guy an answer.

There were no 'reproduction' trim tags 30 yrs ago, BUT... it would not be hard to believe that a totaled Pace Car got it's trim tags moved to a 'standard' convertible.. Where Pace Cars, Z28's, etc are concerned, there have been 'fakes' and swaps ongoing almost since day 1..... (or at least day 2).... :)

There were no 'reproduction' trim tags 30 yrs ago, BUT... it would not be hard to believe that a totaled Pace Car got it's trim tags moved to a 'standard' convertible.. Where Pace Cars, Z28's, etc are concerned, there have been 'fakes' and swaps ongoing almost since day 1..... (or at least day 2).... :) Been messing with these cars since the mid 70s and I can think of LOTS of cars that had all their parts and trim tags swapped from wrecked cars onto plain Jane cars back then. You have to remember these cars in bad condition were a dime a dozen. I bought SS big block cars, Z/28s, etc back in the 70s with blown engines, rusty, missing engines, etc for $500 or less regularly. I have some old pics I need to get scanned and then I will post them. My yard out here lined up with first gen Camaros, Firebirds, a 70 W30 442, GTOs, Chevelles including 2 66 SS396 cars & 2 69s, etc. all bought for less than $500. I remember passing on a rusty 69 Pace car 396 4spd car complete for $1200 because I thought the seller was out of his mind... There was no need for repro tags. Real tags were easy to find for next to nothing. I still have a complete set of 70 Z/28 emblems nailed to the wall of my garage that came off a numbers matching car a friend of mine turned into a circle track stock car. He was racing in a "street stock" class where the rules said the engine had to be "original as it came from the factory" so he bought a 70 Z for $1000, drove it home and gutted it out for racing. Swapping paint in a matching number Z/28 on a 1/4 mile asphalt track trying to win 50 bucks and a plastic trophy... Those days were fun though.

I have to agree. Sounds like a TT swap to me. Even 30 years ago a PC was alot cooler than a run of the mill vert.
I know of a 64 426 max wedge belvedere that had a swap done to it back in the mid 80's.
The original wedge car was totalled in a street racing accident so a really nice 6 banger car was found and the rest is history.
By the way. That wedge car was bought for 5,000 in 1985 by a person that was only 16 at the time.

Been messing with these cars since the mid 70s and I can think of LOTS of cars that had all their parts and trim tags swapped from wrecked cars onto plain Jane cars back then. You have to remember these cars in bad condition were a dime a dozen. I bought SS big block cars, Z/28s, etc back in the 70s with blown engines, rusty, missing engines, etc for $500 or less regularly. I have some old pics I need to get scanned and then I will post them. My yard out here lined up with first gen Camaros, Firebirds, a 70 W30 442, GTOs, Chevelles including 2 66 SS396 cars & 2 69s, etc. all bought for less than $500. I remember passing on a rusty 69 Pace car 396 4spd car complete for $1200 because I thought the seller was out of his mind... There was no need for repro tags. Real tags were easy to find for next to nothing. I still have a complete set of 70 Z/28 emblems nailed to the wall of my garage that came off a numbers matching car a friend of mine turned into a circle track stock car. He was racing in a "street stock" class where the rules said the engine had to be "original as it came from the factory" so he bought a 70 Z for $1000, drove it home and gutted it out for racing. Swapping paint in a matching number Z/28 on a 1/4 mile asphalt track trying to win 50 bucks and a plastic trophy... Those days were fun though.

Do you recall where the 396 4 speed Pace Car was located?
I am trying to get some history on my ( Rusty 69 Pace Car 396 4spd).
It was registered and titled in N.H. in the 70's
Original Drivetrain is long gone:sad:
Thanks, Chris