I am thinking of buying this 1969 z-28 camaro. I need to know if it is a Z-28 car. It has no engine trans or rearend on the car so I cannot give you any of the numbers, Here is the cowl info
ST 69 12437
TR 718 Nor 140852
11D 52 52 PNT

Vin # is 124379N551391
Any help would be great.

What do I look for to indicate it is a Z-28????

i dont think that norwood had the x code on ealy z
so every thing on the trim plate as nothing on it to say that its a z28

Might have something behind the rear seat, x3,x1,x7 etc. Maybe to early for that also. Just a though.

Should be an exhaust plate on the driver's side rear frame rail at about the 1 o'clock position. The plate is roughly 3 inches by 2 inches tall, and is spot welded to the frame rail.Also, car should have front disc brakes and prop valve. There should also be a residual brake valve on the frame, under the drivers seat area. (in most cases, anyway). Speedo cable should penetrate the firewall to the LEFT of the master cylinder if looking from the FRONT of the car. If no cable, there should be a hole just above the throttle linkage that is roughly 1 inch in diameter. This firewall hole was unique to the Z and big block cars. Car should have a 12 bolt rear with four springs (most of the time) with a date range just slightly before the build date of the car, so maybe sometime in October. All Z's had four speed Muncie transmissions, so look for the frame linkage and/or clutch pedal. Car should have a single 3/8 fuel line as well. If the car does not have PS, the pitman arm should be roughly 5 inches long, and the spindles should be the "short knuckle" versions. This is the standard "quick ratio" N44 steering found on the Z cars. Finally, as was mentioned, look behind the upper rear seat cushion. On the bulkhead, there should be "X7" or "X3" written in yellowish crayon. This is generally found on the passenger side, but I have seen it on either side. (Mine is just to the right of center on the driver's side.) These are many of the clues to look for, but nothing beats having the original drivetrain and documents to verify the car's pedigree. The car is an early 69' build based upon the VIN. X codes on the trim tags (X77 or X33) did not start until December of 68' for the 69' units. The 'X coded" cowl tags help to verify these cars as the real deal, although regrettably, they are faked pretty frequently nowadays. Good luck in your search. Hope you found a real one.....
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b339/belairbobs/EbayX3.jpg

Can anyone tell me what the cowl tag info. means? Like what color the car was etc....
Thanks

Car was Garnet red, with red standard bucket seats (Neat!) Built 4th week of November, 1968. Other numbers are body sequence numbers used by the factory.

Here's the breakdown-

69- Model Year
12437= Camaro Coupe V8- denoted by VIN
NOR- 140852- Body sequence number
11D- November, 4th week
718- Standard buckets seats
52 52- Garnet red paint, no vinyl top

All good hints, but I would do a title search at your local DMV. Contact as many past owners as possible, and pray they are truthful. If the original dealership is still around, they may have some papers on the car. Then offer 1/2 what they are asking unless they have good documentation. In my opinion there are too many fakes out there to take a chance with big money. Its way too easy to claim a non x coded car as something it isn’t. Every LA car I’ve seen lately is an SS or RS or Z…Just be careful.

I just wanted to point out that the brake propotioning valve can also be mounted on the master cyclinder.

In addition, you can have a Z-28 and not have a tach.

These are 2 items that people think has to be on the car to "prove" you have a real Z.

I have an X77 with the valve attached to the MC/booster, and no tach.

Hi, I was referring to the frame mounted residual valve, not the prop valve. You are correct, a Z did not need to have a tach ,posi rear, console, or cowl hood. My car was a flat hood, no console, center fuel gauge car. As an X33 D80 car, it also had trim style package, and both spoilers, but was otherwise a pretty plain Jane Z. Not even power steering! Cheap and fast was the order of the day I suppose.....


Here's a pic of the resid valve I was talking about. Should be mounted on the frame under the driver's seat....


http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b339/belairbobs/Ebaybrakeprop.jpg

Check for the original tire decal. (on the glove box door)
Z/28's had 15" wheels.

carefull though - those can be easily faked.

Hi, I was referring to the frame mounted residual valve, not the prop valve. You are correct, a Z did not need to have a tach ,posi rear, console, or cowl hood. My car was a flat hood, no console, center fuel gauge car. As an X33 D80 car, it also had trim style package, and both spoilers, but was otherwise a pretty plain Jane Z. Not even power steering! Cheap and fast was the order of the day I suppose.....


Here's a pic of the resid valve I was talking about. Should be mounted on the frame under the driver's seat....


http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b339/belairbobs/Ebaybrakeprop.jpg

I didn't think that was a real indicator of a Z. I thought I read some where that the jury is still out of the usage of this valve. My (68 11A) 69 Z does not have this valve.

Hi, Yes it is hotly debated, but most (not all)had the valve.

Hi, Yes it is hotly debated, but most (not all)had the valve.

Didn't the SS cars have that valve also?

Hi Jeff, Yes..Depending on who you talk to,the vast majority of disc brake cars had the valve. This would include the SS and Z28 cars. Some drum brake cars had it, and as has been mentioned, some disc cars did not. By and large though, if it was an SS or Z28, it had the valve. I realize that some of the exceptions mentioned exist,but of the dozens of SS and Z cars I've looked at over the years, ALL had this valve.

Hi Jeff, Yes..Depending on who you talk to,the vast majority of disc brake cars had the valve. This would include the SS and Z28 cars. Some drum brake cars had it, and as has been mentioned, some disc cars did not. By and large though, if it was an SS or Z28, it had the valve. I realize that some of the exceptions mentioned exist,but of the dozens of SS and Z cars I've looked at over the years, ALL had this valve.

That is what I thought...
So this would NOT be a good thing to look for, to determine if ths car is a Z/28.

Actually, yes it would IMO, because most (meaning all but a few exceptions) had the valve.

Yes, in that sense you are right - No valve = Not a Z.
No dual exhaust bracket = Not a Z.

But all the SS cars had those items too.
Another way to disqualify it.
It is a clue that with those things it has power disc brakes, and dual exhaust.
Yes - possibly a Z/28.

You are right. :)

The brass valve in the photo is the proportioning valve; the round one below the master cylinder is the metering valve. The only residual pressure valve is mounted behind the brass tube seat in the rear outlet of the master cylinder that feeds the rear drum brakes. :thumbsup:

i thank if it was an SS why would some one fake it to be a z28 it will be more easy to prov it was an ss then a z28
since it dont have an engine trans or rear end
i have a 1969 rs z28 i would love it the same if it was
a rs ss

Unfortunately, its all about the $. A Z28 is worth much more than a 350 SS. A 396/375 car and a Z are closer in price nowadays, but by and large the Z rules in terms of transaction prices, with the only cars being worth more on average are the COPOs, ZL1's,Yenkos,etc....the ultra rare stuff.

By the way, I'd LOVE to have your 69 RS Z too! My dad had one when I was a kid, and I've always wanted another. Very valuable car as well...

Yes, in that sense you are right - No valve = Not a Z.


That's an incorrect statement. Plenty of Z's out there without the valve, including my 69 Z.

From CRG:
...... starting in mid-1968, NOR Z28s stopped using it for a year, starting again in mid-1969.

From CRG:
...... starting in mid-1968, NOR Z28s stopped using it for a year, starting again in mid-1969.

So is that just for Zs, or does that include the SS and other DB cars also?


dave

the fact is is the car worth the price you must consider that it will cost allot to put it back to specs

That's an incorrect statement. Plenty of Z's out there without the valve, including my 69 Z.

From CRG:
...... starting in mid-1968, NOR Z28s stopped using it for a year, starting again in mid-1969.
Yes,
That is what I originally thought.
This valve is not a good determination of a Z/28.

A car could have it, or not have it. Whether or not it was a Z.
Or, a non Z car could have it too.

So is that just for Zs, or does that include the SS and other DB cars also?

dave

I don't have the db handy, but I don't recall SS's being affected.

Kurt

My chassis service manual calls the valve under the driver out as a "pressure regulator valve". Just some general info to throw out.

I was planning on installing one of these valves on my RS just to avoid having to try to fish the one piece rear brake line over the frame.seems like the easy way out.Not trying to steal the thread folks just thinking out loud. Carry on;)
Russ.

The function of the pressure regulating valve is explained in the November 1969 issue of Chevrolet Service News. In short disc brakes need far more PSI than drums; the valve reduced line pressure to the rear brakes. The valve was used intermittently for 1969 on the Camaro. A friend has a Oct '68 built 69Z/28. No valve and a '346' master stamped 'US'.

The valve has nothing to do with the Z/28 option. Some have it; some do not.

Disc brakes, dual exhausts, Muncie 4-speed and a 12 bolt axle were available or possible on any 8 cylinder Camaro. Body tags were being swapped long before there were repos. The only way to determine a Z/28 for certain is factory paper work or an original VIN-stamped engine.

All of my Z/28's have the subframe valve and from memory the others I have had did too.....this also includes SBC & BBC SS cars as well.....basically everything that had factory fitted discs.Always thought it was a real good indicator of a factory performance option. Shane...

The car in question was produced just before my 12A car was. The vin and body vin are just before mine. I also have no codes but only the rear seat brace markings. I have no valve you are referring to . Mine is up near the booster. I purchased my car new so I know what I got.

The car in question was produced just before my 12A car was. The vin and body vin are just before mine. I also have no codes but only the rear seat brace markings. I have no valve you are referring to . Mine is up near the booster. I purchased my car new so I know what I got.

Did you buy yours thinking that you would keep it this long?

I'll give you what you paid for it ! :):):):):) (More like 10-15X nowadays)

I just checked out my old 69 SS 350 that is a 1st week Jan 1969 NOR (350 , PG , 10 bolt car) and it has the valve on the chassis rail so maybe it was only a Z/28 thing to have it removed for the 12 month period. Shane...