I may be going out on a limb here, but here it goes! I'm taking a welding/fabrication class and would like to make new upper and A-Arms for my 68 like Golden West for example and lower ones if possible. Any one know how about i can do it? what i mean by that are the measurements, size, tubing gauge width needed, or any other info i would need to fabricate them or point me in the right direction. same applies for a sub-frame. Thanks

I don't want to discourage you from trying to make your own A-arms, but seeing that you are a beginning welder I really wouldn't recommend trying to build your own A-arms. (don't take that wrong, I imagine you are a good welder)

You could replicate a stock style arm but get no better geometry and you really don't know well the arms will hold up. Really overall the strength in the arms is why many switch to tubular arms and crossshafts, and the coolness factor. Most arms on the market have little to no geometry effect.

Maybe CarlC will chime in with some of his ideas.

Post this over at PT or lateral-g and maybe some guys would give dimensions and info.

Thank you for the advice and suggestion. the instructor brought it up the fabricating things, so with his background and help i would do it. i wouldn't attempt to without you guys and the experience you guys have and instructors knowledge of fabricating and welding. safety is on top overall!

the a-arms though, besides the fact they look awesome, ad strength like mentioned, but also better geometry for handling as well, correct?

how do i move this thread over or do i just copy and start a new one there?

Andrew is mistaken on the geometry changes that some aftermarket control arms offer. There are three arms out there (that I know of) that can give improvements in caster and camber gain. Very similar to doing the Guldstrand modification...although you can get a little more caster.

As a engineer of suspensions and their components, I would discourage any beginner of welding their own control arms. It's not the welding that I would be concerned about, it would be your selection of materials and orienting them for proper strength.

Me too AND I sure ain't a fabricator at all!!

pdq67

[quote=Silver69Camaro]Andrew is mistaken on the geometry changes that some aftermarket control arms offer. There are three arms out there (that I know of) that can give improvements in caster and camber gain. quote]

Please explain how I am mistaken. Maybe my post was confusing.
I have spoke with various companies claiming that the geometry in their arms offer nothing over the stock arms other than strength, no changes from stock geometry-(maybe that isn't the correct word for a mechanical engineer). DSE is a top notch designed Upper control arm.

Most tubular arms, such as fatman fab, BMR's, Hotchkis do not offer better changes over the stock arms other than strength. DSE, SC&C allow changes in the geometry for better caster/camber gain. I am glad you mentioned the guldstrand mod. That is an excellent modification to consider on a 1st gen camaro frame.

Carbrera: You may check out the guldstand mod, this might be a good challenge to take on for your welding classes. It is a simple modification, and with the help of your instructor this should be an easy and cheap modification.

I know about the G-mod, and half way done with it. all i did was move the holes down and wanted to finish it off with tubular a-arms that will address the caster/camber, and just overall add better handling and squeeze in a bigger tire. i'm aware i would need a perticular type of steel/gauge tubbing for these. and all this is part of my question to see the degree of difficulty and safety i need to be aware of if taking on this project.

now i'm confused in regards to the a-arms and other than the material used and good welding, what other preperation is needed to the overall strength and quality to the materials and "orient them for proper strenght for as said by Silver69Camaro." TIG welding is the best and is always mentioned by the manufaturers of these.

Look in the roundy-round parts cat's b/c they usually sell cheaper tube A-arms that are adjustable too. (Usually Second Gen. parts tho..)...

Try Stock Car Products for one..

http://www.stockcarproducts.com/

And I forget if SPEEDWAY sell's adjusable A-Arms or not?

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/

pdq67

Andrew,
Like you mentioned, DSE and SC&C do offer better geometry. Speedtech's are right up there too. Those are the only control arms out there so far that do offer better geometry. The rest do not (AFAIK). You had stated that most aftermarket arms offer little to no geometry changes, but there are in fact three that do (and replicate the guldstrand modification).

Cabrera,
Not to nit-pick, but you have shown a lack of knowledge of control arms and manufacturing process:
"TIG welding is the best and is always mentioned by the manufaturers of these."

A statement like this, to me, proves that you are not ready to complete this task. I am 90% sure that you say TIG is best is because most aftermarket arms are indeed TIG welded.

But it is not "best". MIG, if done properly, is every bit as good as TIG in this situation. Both processes, if done improperly, can cause failure. So why are most arms welded with TIG? Simple, it looks better. Many, many circle-track arms are MIG welded. It's cheaper and those guys tend not to care about "bling". In fact, one could even say the enlarged radius from the MIG weld bead can offer strength advantages.

I guess we are trying to tell you to do this at your own risk b/c you can get killed if something breaks at speed!!

And I have lost a front tire/brake drum at 25 mph so do know back when I was a kid!! Luckily it just dropped down and ruined the backing plate and all the inner brake guts is all.

The drum fractured at the HUB when my buddy and I were bouncing my old '52 Willis's frontend up and down after we installed the 232" Stude V-8 Stick OD in her for the fun of it!! What a supprise when she broke!!

pdq67

I guess we are trying to tell you to do this at your own risk b/c you can get killed if something breaks at speed!!

pdq67

Yeah, that's pretty much it. Suspensions are supposed to be a "no failure" design, much like a landing gear on a airplane...

Andrew,
Like you mentioned, DSE and SC&C do offer better geometry. Speedtech's are right up there too. Those are the only control arms out there so far that do offer better geometry. The rest do not (AFAIK). You had stated that most aftermarket arms offer little to no geometry changes, but there are in fact three that do (and replicate the guldstrand modification).


Matt, can you expand on how the simple addition of aftermarket arms replicate the Guldstrand mod? The taller UBJ in the SC&C and, but not the addition of aftermarket UCAs. They only add caster. I also feel that Global West's UCA should be mentiond along with The DSE and ST arms because they add more static caster as well.

Matt, can you expand on how the simple addition of aftermarket arms replicate the Guldstrand mod? The taller UBJ in the SC&C and, but not the addition of aftermarket UCAs. They only add caster. I also feel that Global West's UCA should be mentiond along with The DSE and ST arms because they add more static caster as well.

You're right, they only add caster...I apologize if I said/implied they make the camber curve more aggressive!

i'm trying to do my homework here and the material i would use would be 4130 tubbing and thicker than 1/8 and either TIG or MIG. so far what do you guys think?

i'm trying to do my homework here and the material i would use would be 4130 tubbing and thicker than 1/8 and either TIG or MIG. so far what do you guys think?

No offense, but you have a long way to go. Sit down with a pencil and paper, with a list of available materials you can use. Plan this out. Do some research, then plan more. Get an aftermarket arm and cut it apart, see what they use (assuming that was designed correctly, also)

First, you can't MIG 4130. Well, you can, but the HAZ is bad enough to make it weak.

I'd use DOM if I were you. Also, you can't just worry about the material thickness. The diameter is just as important.

Thank you and just exactly what i'm looking for, information on everything. like i mentioned, gathering info to see if i'll take on this project and all opinions, ideas, comments, suggestions are well taken with no offense taken. we are here in this all together and a lot of us could not learn or do certain projects with this network and info that we all bring in.... keep it coming!