I was wondering if anyone has had experience with this company located in Stanfiled, NC. They build nascar engines as well as classic car engines. Has anyone ever purchased an engine from them or heard of their reputation? Any info, good or bad, would be appreciated. I am looking to do business with them but before I do I would like others input on any experience they might of had with them. Thanks in advance.

http://www.tandlengines.com/index.html I don't know anything about T&L. But if you are shopping around, PM me and I'll tell you who not to buy one from. I learned the hard way. Mike

I was wondering if anyone has had experience with this company located in Stanfiled, NC. They build nascar engines as well as classic car engines. Has anyone ever purchased an engine from them or heard of their reputation? Any info, good or bad, would be appreciated. I am looking to do business with them but before I do I would like others input on any experience they might of had with them. Thanks in advance.

I have been there shop and Ray Phinney who is a good friend of mine works there and Lloyd has built some top engines in his day and still does and when I was there I noticed they even have a spin-tron there in the corner. C

Call and ank Ray if he knows Carl

http://www.tandlengines.com/index.html I don't know anything about T&L. But if you are shopping around, PM me and I'll tell you who not to buy one from. I learned the hard way. Mike

Mike, I feel your pain. I too learned the hard way. I purchased an engine from Red Line Performance in Ilion, New York and nearly got burned. Luckily I got my money back but it was the worst buying experience I ever went through.

That is why I am doing my homework this time around and trying to learn as much about the builder as I can so history won't repeat itself.

I've been talking with T&L the last few weeks and feel pretty confident that they are a trustworthy, reputable company. I plan on taking a trip to their facility to watch my engine on the dyno just for peace of mind.

If anyone else out there has any experience with T&L I'd appreicate the comments. Thanks again Mike and Carl for the response.

I recently purchased (April 2006) a 383 from them for my 69 RS. I too visited the shop for the dyno session. It was an excellent experience. They did everything they said they would. They asked all the right questions so they could give me the build I wanted. I was able to swap parts they offered on the base motor for my own parts so I could save some cash. I started with the base 383, upgraded to all forged components, and a hydraulic roller.

I spent a 1/2 day there while they dynoed the motor. When I arrived at their shop at 8:30, my motor was on the dyno for it's break in period. I even got to try my old carb on there to see how it worked but ended up buying one of the AED carbs he had. They had to clearance the rocker arms to clear my valve covers which is why it took so long.

I met Ray who was a great guy. Very personable and humurous to boot.

I've installed the motor in my car and have started it several times. I have not been able to drive it yet. I've been re-doing the engine bay and making new brackets for my accessories. Hopefully in the next week or so I should be able to take it for a spin.

If you have any questions, I will be happy to answer them based on my experience. I would definitely purchase another motor from them.

Thanks for the reply 69nstyle. I'm glad everything worked out for you. I had a pretty good feeling about them to begin with but after what I just went through I decided to be a little cautious as well. I plan on taking a ride down there for the dyno session (actually looking for an excuse to break in my new Harley).

Once I get the motor I will post the results. From what I've been learning through my homework, I should be pretty happy. Thanks for all of the feedback.

69nstyle, I forgot to ask you. Which 383 did you get from them?

I purchased the base 383 with the Dart Pro 1 heads. Upgraded to all forged, roller cam, a new AED 750 and the billet distributor they offer. Lloyd offered 2 different cams for this motor and I opted for the milder cam since I mostly cruise the car. I used my RPM intake, timing cover and valve covers to help offset the cost. Lloyd was very flexible in letting me spec this motor.

I know how are feeling about buying this motor. I was in the same boat and until I actually pulled into the parking lot and saw an actual building, I was worried. I drove 4 hours to pick this motor up and it was totally worth it. If you are going to make the drive, you should pick the motor up while you are at it. Yes, you will have to pay NC sales tax, but you save on shipping and the piece of mind of having it in your possession made it worth the extra cost. I went to Harbor Freight and bought one of those floor engine cradles to bring it home in. Worked great.

I'd hate for you to take my advice and then you have a bad experience, but I can tell you this, I would definitely purchase another motor from them w/o any hesitation. There are plenty of shops in my area that can build motors, but not at the price he built mine and, the level of service I got while I was there makes it a no brainer for me.

Good luck.

I bought their 383 all forged stroker kit from them for a motor my son and I are planning to build. I had originally planned to buy a crate 383 from them, but the 4 bolt main block I have cleaned up at .030". I had it stroker notched and prepped.
I think it would be great for the kid (17yr old son) and I to do a build.
When I called and talked to David he assured me that I didn't need an all forged kit for the street (4340 crank, 6" H beam rods, Mahle forged pistons) and that there cast 383 kit was real nice. I wanted something like the ZZ383, but don't care for hyper pistons. Anyway, they put a kit together for me and we are planning to build it with their parts. I will be going back for the heads and roller cam later.
One thing to keep in mind, they don't get things done fast. I ordered mine in the first part of June and it took almost 4 weeks to get it. When I opened the boxes I found that they forgot to pack the rings, and the balance sheet had someone elses name on it. This made me think that maybe there was a mixup. I called Lloyd, he assured me that the kit was mine and that he would send the rings out right away. (Got them today)
Give them a call, decide for yourself.
They also are getting some nice press in Popular Hot Rodding.

Hey BrewHog55. How's this for slow? I ordered mine on June 3rd 2005. I got the first one on July 10th, 2005. I got the second one (replacement for the first POS they sent me) about the middle of October, 2005. Today is July 18th, 2006. I currently have about 300 miles on it and still have ZERO confidense in it. If you were to ask me, I'd tell you I bought it from The Engine Factory in New Jersey/Florida. Good Luck. Mike

Big Mike, what was the problem with the first engine you ordered from them? How were they to deal with once you notified them of the problem?

The water pump fell off twice. Thats right, I said THE WATERPUMP FELL OFF TWICE. The first time it happened right at 100 miles. They told me to keep track of my time and materials for clean up, tow bill, and whatever else. I did that. I cleaned up the mess, put it all back together and this time it made it THREE miles before it did it again. Needless to say I just about had a stroke. After weeks of me calling every single day, they finally agreed to replace my motor. I sent it back to New Jersey, even though it originally came from Florida. Finally, a couple of months later, (after the waranty had run out) they finally sent me another motor this one came from New Jersey. I've got about 300 miles on this one, and other than a small oil leak, everything seems to be OK. It's never been over 3500 RPM's, so who knows. In short, I would not buy a lawn mower engine from them! Good Luck. Mike P.S. I never got paid one dime for my time and materials. Luckily I did all of the engine swapping myself or I would have been out a fortune in labor.

Mike, Sorry to hear about your problem with The Engine Factory. I looked at their web site, they talk up their ability to build good motors.
I guess that when I get done putting mine together I won't have anyone else to blame. But that is one reason why I am doing it this way.

Mike, sorry to hear about your problems but I can relate as well. For me to explain what happened when I purchased my first 383 stroker it would take about two pages of writing. But to make an extremely long story very short, I purchased the engine and had to send it back twice. Each time I received the engine parts were missing in which I had to wait an additional month to get them. After receiving the engine for the second time, enough was enough and I got a full reimbursement. But I went through hell from January of this year to about a month ago. You wouldn't believe what happened when I got this engine. UNBELIEVABLE!!!

Anyway, this is why I started this thread to make sure T&L is legit and I think they are. Plus, I don't want history repeating itselft so I'm taking some extra measures to ensure that it doesn't happen again.

Thanks for all of the responses.

Carbo - sorry to chime in a little late here, been on vacation, but I recently ordered a 383 from T & L. Dealing with Ray and Lloyd has been great. They answer all questions and respond promptly to messages. They allowed me to use some of my own parts also. I sent them my intake, alt., ps pump, starter, valve covers, acc brackets, etc. they are going to assemble everything at no extra cost. I went with their 383 with the larger roller cam, all assembled, dynoed and delivered for just about 5k. I also posted for info here and was confident enough in the responses to go ahead and order. They will tell you right up front that the wait will be 8 - 10 weeks. I'm expecting my motor late aug. or early sept. let me know if you need any more info.

Robert68, no problem on the delayed response. I ordered my engine about a week ago after receiving positive remarks about T&L. I am purchasing one of their custom 408 strokers. They did warn me that it would take at least 2 months for me to get the motor. But I already wrote off this summer for driving the car so the wait is no big deal to me. I like your idea of sending all of your accessories down to them to put on the motor. I think I'm going to do the same. I will post here once I receive the engine and let everyone know how it turned out.

Good luck Carbo & Robert68. I hope everything goes well! I'd love to here a GOOD crate motor story. Mike

Thanks Big Mike. I hope everything works out for us as well. I'll keep ya posted once I get the engine back. I feel confident with this shop as all of the feedback and info that I have received has been positive.

Mike - Thank you also, I'll be sure to report back - good or bad. I'm sure I'll have help questions getting her installed and dialed in properly. I feel like a little kid waiting for xmass.

Just ordered a 383 w/roller upgrade, their carb, billet dist,and wires. I'll see what happens.

I feel like a little kid waiting for xmass.

Who says adults can't celebrate x-mas in July? LOL

Hey robert68, So how did it turn out with the T&L Engine. If you are still out there. Anyone else that has any dealings with them please feel free to chime in. i think this post is old enough i am not hijacking it. LOL

I have a 489 they built last year. Motor runs really strong. Only gripe so far is they failed to tell me it used a Gen iv flywheel. The block is Gen vi. So that needed swapped out. Rear main seal drip. Not bad. They were at around 5 months on mine. Things could be different now. I am confident in there engine building skills.

I guess I'll chime back in since this thread has been given a second life.

As far as the engine I got, 408 stroker, I am very pleased with the performance. No issues to this point. Right now I am currently doing a tranny swap, from a Muncie to a TKO 600, but the one problem I do have about the engine is that while trying to dial in my bellhousing I stripped two threads out of the block. Now I have to pull the engine and repair the threads. Thing of it is I do remember the threads not being very clean and when I did this the first time I noticed one of the bolt holes was losing its threads. In a way it's my fault as I should have addressed the issue at that time. Now I'm paying for it.

Word of the wise, make sure you check and clean your threads before installing the motor. Learn from my mistake.

Again, as far as performance, I couldn't be happier with the engine. Very well built and no leaks.

Good luck Carbo & Robert68. I hope everything goes well! I'd love to here a GOOD crate motor story. MikeI can tell you as many as you want to hear.

I guess I'll chime back in since this thread has been given a second life.

As far as the engine I got, 408 stroker, I am very pleased with the performance. No issues to this point. Right now I am currently doing a tranny swap, from a Muncie to a TKO 600, but the one problem I do have about the engine is that while trying to dial in my bellhousing I stripped two threads out of the block. Now I have to pull the engine and repair the threads. Thing of it is I do remember the threads not being very clean and when I did this the first time I noticed one of the bolt holes was losing its threads. In a way it's my fault as I should have addressed the issue at that time. Now I'm paying for it.

Word of the wise, make sure you check and clean your threads before installing the motor. Learn from my mistake.

Again, as far as performance, I couldn't be happier with the engine. Very well built and no leaks.

If possible I like to see a video of that engine !!!:D

If possible I like to see a video of that engine !!!:D

I can do that. You'll probably have to wait a few months until I'm done with the winter projects....oh yeah. plus when the snow melts. LOL :noway:

I LOVE THE WINTER.............

:DThanks ahead of time.

Doing Business with T&L Engine Development

Summary:
Got a year? Business at your own risk! T&L´s owner Mr. Lloyd McCleary appears to be technically competent and respected, but has business practices strongly bordering on fraudulent or criminally incompetent. Given his strong position in his niche, as well as the dedication of his helpful workers such as Rob, there is no reason why he could not run a professional organization, establishing reasonable timelines and setting realistic customer expectations.

A time line of one order follows:

May 21, 2008: T&L sends quote to Austria firm.
June 9, 2008: Austrian firm makes payment of $5,400.
July 18, 2008: T&L informs Austrian firm: “The earliest the motor will be completed is the first week in August.”
August 26, 2008: T&L informs Austrian firm: “The engine should be finished near the end of this week.”
August 27, 2008: Austrian firm makes final payment of $5,512.
September, 2008 – February, 2009: Despite numerous attempts by Austrian firm to contact T&L, no communication or motor is received from T&L.
March 17, 2009: Austrian Trade Commission contacts T&L on behalf of Austrian firm. Over the next two months, Austrian government agency contacts T&L almost daily and brings in other parties to add pressure to T&L, including the local Better Business Bureau and county sheriff’s office.
May 4, 2009: T&L completes engine for pickup by freight forwarder
May 11, 2009: Engine arrives to Austrian firm, missing certain parts such as the clutch pack, some of which are included in the price and others not. T&L offers to reimburse the price of missing parts included in the quote.

Helpful numbers for dealing with T&L Engine Development
Detective Supervisor Charles Hatley, Stanly County Sherrifs Office, Tel 704-986-3714. According to Mr. Hatley, he has helped four out of five customers obtain their motors after extensive delays and he is happy to assist others encountering problems with T&L.
Better Business Bureau Southern Piedmont Carolinas, www.charlotte.bbb.org; Tel 704-927-8611. T&L´s BBB rating: F.
Charlotte Regional Partnership, Vanessa Goschel, Research, tel 704-347-8942, a helpful resource person focused on regional business development, but unable to do anything directly.

Background info: I am a project manager for the Austrian Trade Commission, a commercial arm of the Austrian Consulate in the US and helped to resolve a complaint from a firm in Austria that ordered an engine from T&L.

WOW I feel bad when I get a month behind on a preped block or sending out a short block, Some Of the problems I'm having is getting pistons I needed 2 sets of JE SBC blower pistons and they always carried them on the self and it took 3 weeks to have them built and same with Diamond Pistons, With the tough economic times no one carries inventory.


Dart is behind about 3 weeks on blocks but all the big WD's seem to order all at once which is good for Dart as the new SHP blocks have been a big seller for them.

It seems like T&L has dug a hole they may not get out of.

It's really to bad since they build a good performing motor with good parts. I really think Lloyd has built a monster and doesn't know how to manage it. I talked to him about a month ago for an issue I had. He always complains about how busy they are. I said "raise your prices $500 an engine" that will fix it.

That's no excuse -- it's not a matter of "building a monster" and not knowing how to deal with it, it's a matter of returning phone calls and delivering on promises.

I agree, but good engine builders and mechanics are rarely good business people. I could make that shop so much more money just supporting the phone calls and market. It's going to catch up to them very soon.

I agree, but good engine builders and mechanics are rarely good business people. I could make that shop so much more money just supporting the phone calls and market. It's going to catch up to them very soon.

I think it has already cought up with them.

I have a similar horror story with t and l engines. Ordered 408 on feb 9, paid in full on april 7 after being told engine was done. Still waiting, police and bbb involved but doesn't seem to be helping. Been told more than 20 times that it is done and would be shipped.

Sorry to hear about that Josh.

Lying 20 times to a paying customer isn't just bad business, makes me wonder if there isn't something more sinister going on.

I know of a company here in West MI that was taking money from new customers for jobs up front to pay bills, salaries, and a little to work on old back-logged projects. Then they would demand more money from customers of half finished projects to get their work done.

They kept falling further and further behind with their cash flow until people got tired of waiting and extra charges and called the state on them. They were running what basically amounted to a pyramid scheme. Since then, they got a new owner and from what I hear are back on the right track.

Sorry to hear about that Josh.

Lying 20 times to a paying customer isn't just bad business, makes me wonder if there isn't something more sinister going on.

I know of a company here in West MI that was taking money from new customers for jobs up front to pay bills, salaries, and a little to work on old back-logged projects. Then they would demand more money from customers of half finished projects to get their work done.

They kept falling further and further behind with their cash flow until people got tired of waiting and extra charges and called the state on them. They were running what basically amounted to a pyramid scheme. Since then, they got a new owner and from what I hear are back on the right track.

GEEEE Eric I felt bad about your porject being a month late but I did answer the phone and Dart held me up on a block as well.

Excuses, excuses Carl. LOL

For the record, Carl wasn't a month late, I think he's just making a point. When Dart's schedule slipped a few days Carl let me know, just the way a business should be run!

Excuses, excuses Carl. LOL

For the record, Carl wasn't a month late, I think he's just making a point. When Dart's schedule slipped a few days Carl let me know, just the way a business should be run!

Well it seemed like a month to me when these issues happen.

I know this thread is a little old but I had to chime in. I ordered a 408 stroker from them Jan 7, 2008. It is paid in full but here I am, 21 months later and still no engine. The police, BBB, and Attorney General are all involved. I have been reading dozens of posts in four other online forums with similar horror stories including Hotrodding and a couple Ford sites too. I'm just looking to get a refund at this point!

Wow....thats some horrible stuff to read. I dont see how a builder can get so far behind on an engine. I can see maybe a week maybe two, but WOW!!! I hope you get it squared away.

I'd have to fly out and pay a visit...... I really don't get them. I played hell getting my engine from them as well. I've actually got Lloyd on the phone a couple times since. It's a very poorly managed company. Next time I'll definitely build one closer to home.

I almost went with LLoyd ,and after reading the artical in Chevelle mag. and called talked to him ,I just about ordered in Feb 08 but my gut told me to go closer to home and numerious calls to Scott @ Gilbert Chev in Oregon ,and being 5 hrs from him ,and man I am sooooo glad I did the service and tech support ,and above all Quality of his motor 2nd to none ,I feel sooooo bad for you guy's that went with T& L ,Good luck to you all ,i'v been taken for a ride before on some house work few grand ,so know how it feels :sad::mad::noway:...Happy motoring

This guy builds engines for NHRA & has more engine combos to offer. http://www.steveschmidtracing.com/

I hate reading this. I've already got my new rear installed and the TKO is in the mail. I designed my whole setup to run behind their 408 A-1 motor based on my driving habits and their dyno chart, and I planned on ordering after Christmas is squared away. This is after talking with a few people who are happy with their T&L engines, and T&L is only 90 miles from me.

Now I keep seeing people who have been waiting over a year for an engine and someone has even created a T&L forum just for people waiting and complaining. Plus there's a guy on there from Denmark who's motor dynoed over 200hp below what it was supposed to as well as having multiple other problems and they would not send him his warranty parts, just empty promises. That forum has people who have been waiting eighteen months for an engine they already paid for and so they gave them a three year warranty, but how faithful would you feel about your warranty being fulfilled when you can't even get what you've already paid for? That bothers me more than anything.

Man. I guess I'm going to have to either build my own motor now or find something else set up close to what I thought that motor was going to be. My parade is now officially rained out.

Sad thing is they have ads all over here on this site
http://www.racingjunk.com/category/91/Circle_Track/post/1418828/383-Chevy-Stroker-New-Claimer-Engine-475-HP.html