After listening to the radio this morning on the way to work, I was curious what other peoples opinions on this subject are...
Tulsa public school systems is, per the radio anouncement this morning, going to mandatory uniforms for all public school kids. Because of that, I figure in 1-2 years everything in the surrounding communities (like where I live) will be doing the same. Their "sales line" is that it is because of the gangs. They already don't let kids wear certain color combinations to school, and they are also suspending kids now for wearing all black (its going to be 105* for the next several days...who in the hell wants to wear all black anyway???). Under this new ruling, all kids will wear the same outfits, each the same color, everyday, or otherwise be suspended from school. This just seems ridiculous to me. Its not that I REALLY care one way or the other, but to me it just seems like taking aspirin for a gunshot wound to the head (bad analogy, I know ;) ). I guess what I don't understand is why this stuff with the behavior problems in school isn't going back on the parents? Contrary to what seems to be popular belief, school is NOT a daycare, nor is it a nanny service. I was raised to believe that a childs behavior is learned in the home, not by the state government.
I must be getting old...theres just so many things going on nowadays that I just don't understand :sad:

High school kids don't mind wearing uniforms, they wear them all the time.

The logic in it has served the private schools very well Travis. With uniforms there is no competition for the best outfit, shoes, tee shirt etc. When all kids are dressed the same, EDUCATION becomes center again like it should be. The poor always get financial help to get the uniforms so thats not an issue either.
Clothes have taken over the kids priorities in school and education has lost out. Parents in so many cases, dont give a rip about what their kids wear so then the schools have to have a new policy.
Can you believe that most schools have to have a policy for no tee shirts with booze or tobacco or rude words on them? Too many parents dont care so now the school boards have to do something to level the field so the kids LEARN instead of fight over clothes or who wears their belt thru which loop to denote which gang they are in, or their caps turned one direction or another to 'send a signal' to a rival gang banger. ITs horrible what schools have to deal with but the parents in so many cases dont give a S###.
Im all for uniforms and YES I had to dress to a dress code in the 60's in my school and YES it kept us focused on learning since we didnt worry if someone else had the latest shirt or shoes.
Thats my perspective on it and worth a plug nickle but there is logic in these attempts for the schools to step up and be the 'parent' again. Sad isnt it?

I say yes, but you have to figure out how to make the affordable/available to the less fortunate.

I frequently teach school as a substitute, and often have interesting conversations with high school students. I went to college and got my degree with a slide rule. Since then we have invented disposable scientific calculators for eight bucks that have more computational horse power than the computer that took men to the moon. But have the kids learned anything more than we did in school?

Ask any juvenile what is seven squared, or what is the sum of three, two digit numbers are, you will get a blank stare. Ask them to read a passage from any book, and they will be ready to fight you. Ask them to write a short story but deny them the ability to cut and paste off the internet and they are stymied. Are your juveniles athletically fit, or are they tending towards the obese? Finally what foreign languages do they speak.

Kids today learn how to pass standardized tests in public school not how to read, not writing skills, and who needs arithmetic with a disposable calculator. I qualify for a handicap sticker (orthopedic injuries) but at sixty plus I'm still in better condition than some of the kids I have seen in school who get winded walking to class.

We have so much material wealth today that we tend to overlook what we have lost academically. Is it the school boards fault. No, because we are the school board, we live in a democratic society that gets what it wants. Those whom we have elected to represent us, are trying to meet our "needs" for a more educated populous, are trying to maintain control in a world gone insane with litigation. We surrendered the board of education (I'm talking about that thin eighteen inch by four inch paddle now) when some "mom" sued for the abuse suffered onto her little one (that and the multi million dollar settlement).

School uniforms are a symptom of the disease. The kids are running wild (I see more flesh at school than I used to see at peep shows back when I was still in the Navy). It isn't just gangs, which shouldn't be dismissed as being inconsequential. But drugs, tattoos and piercings, and youth's attitude towards learning.


Larger Dave

My son attends a private school where uniforms are manditory, it just looks much nicer to me and it does not bother him a bit, i would not have it any other way, the kids wearing the jeans hanging down to the knees with shirttails hanging out/earrings and all that junk are the ones that don't seem to care to learn a thing. I think all public schools should have to wear them, clean some of these kids look up is whats needed.

I lived in the Philippines for a few years and also visited Japan and Hong Kong. Many of the schools required a uniform and needless to say, they all looked very well. I wouldn't have a problem with it. I wouldn't have to be buying name brand stuff for my daughter. :)

Great idea, I'm all for it!!!!

I am fairly recent out of high school. I went to a boy's school where we had to wear suits everyday. I didnt mind, and don't recall that anyone did.

The girl's at the girl's school right near us wore uniforms too. No complaints on that either!

I can't see a day when ALL public schools will have a uniform code. It's a nice idea, and has certain merrits. But I can't see it ever happening.

My youngest attends a private christian school that requires uniforms. (blue pants and blue or white button down shirt with collar.)

He doesn't mind a bit. Only 8 now, but when he gets older, the typical kid stuff about people's clothes won't be an issue. We but them at walmart, dirt cheap, way less than the stuff his older brothers want to wear.

When Jake (17) went to military school last year, it seemed wearing a uniform gave him considerably more pride in his appearance, to the point where he chose to spend most of his free time shining his shoes and belt buckles.

I teach at a high school and see first hand every day the problems that could/should be dealt with at home. The problem is they are NOT. The schools are having to deal with a students that have NEVER been disciplined and it gets worse every year. It is NOT the students fault. Any parent who lets their child raise them self is asking for trouble. We have single parents with 3 jobs who never see their kids. We have kids having kids and they themselves were never disciplined.

The schools have to do what they can to get the focus on learning. That is what school is all about isn't it? I voted for uniforms at my public school and would be happy to wear them myself. I spend a lot of time dealing with students stealing others Nike shoes or a baseball cap and the likes. It is a waste of my time and the other students time. I wish I had the answer to the problems but since I don't I have to do the best I can with what I've got.

I went to public schools until my folks enrolled me in a private high school. We had uniforms back in the late 70's/early 80's... Most of us wore corduroy's with a belt, and a collared shirt. NO writing/advertising were allowed on the clothes. No facial hair (hard for a bear like me :) ) Nobody said much about it because they didn't have a choice... I agree with the frivolous lawsuit theory as well. Just because something is physically possible to do doesn't mean it should be a God given right...
Dano:beers:

It is a very simple idea. Take the focus of what everyone is wearing and concentrate on the fundamentals: reading, writing and arithmetic. If my son who is fifteen, and lives with his mother out of state, would spend one tenth of the time studying as he did worrying about what clothes to wear and stop constantly texting on his cell phone his grades would significantly improve.

Thanks for all the replys...that definately explains it for me, and I totally agree with it.
I guess I am really out of touch with the rest of the "civilized" world ;) Growing up in a relatively backwoods part of the country, I was just never exposed to a lot of the problems in the schools nowadays, or that a lot of you guys probably went thru during your school years. And it wasn't THAT long ago that I was in high school (graduated 1990). We didn't have gangs, or drive by's, etc...and you could count the number of drug users on one hand and the number of pregnacies on the other.
But at the same time, I do see some things that really have changed. The number of obese kids I see at any of the schools around here is almost mind boggling. The number of kids I see daily with a kid of their own, or that don't work to make their own money (especially during the summer), and that have absolutely no ambition to do anything with their lives is just sad.
My wifes oldest son is a perfect example of many of the things that I believe to be wrong with kids nowadays. He turned I believe 20 this year, and will graduate high school this november :sad: At least he will graduate if he doesn't get kicked out again for his clothes or earings. The school he goes to now (thats a whole ugly story unto itself) has no tolerance for boys with jewelry, and are pretty specific on what kinds of clothes and colors absolutely cannot be worn. They do tolerate his long hair (its down to the middle of his back), but just barely. He has absolutely no ambition to do anything with his life...other than lock himself in his room and play video games all night and sleep all day. He now lives with his grandma and grandpa (my inlaws), because his dad kicked him out. Grandpa only let him move in long enough to finish high school, but the stipulation was that he got a job, and graduated. Nothing else. He has been living with them for about 4-5 months now, has went to a few interviews but always goes witha piss poor attitude, and that long greasy hair...and its always everybody elses fault why he doesn't get a job (and many have told him his hair was the first turnoff). He has no desire to even learn to drive (which was absolute top priority for kids when I was a teenager). And I see so many kids just like him.

I kinda got sidetracked there :D But if its all about getting the kids a better education, then I'm all for it. Now, if they can do something about lazy, I'll stand behind that 100% too.

Went to private school 1st grade thru high school. Grammer school ( 1st to 8th) we wore uniforms. High school (all boys college prep) we did not, but had a strict dress/apperance code. I nor anyone else had a problem with it. If everybody is dressed the same, it causes less problems and allows you to concentrate on your school work. I am glad to hear the public schools are doing the same.

I think it is a great idea. But I don't see it happening everywhere any time soon. :( Things are slow to catch on here in SC - we still have smoking sections in our resteraunts!

A PLEDGE PIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On your UNIFORM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thankyou Sir. May I Have Another!!!!!!

I'd vote YES for uniforms in public schools in a heartbeat!
And accessories like iPods, cell phones, and jewelry that is displayed outside of the uniform clothing should be banned on school grounds at the same time.
Stuff it in your backpack and leave it in your locker.

Education.... NOT a fashion pageant.
:thumbsup:

let's not forget cel phones! Kids in school should not have cel phones!

I think it is a great idea. But I don't see it happening everywhere any time soon. :( Things are slow to catch on here in SC - we still have smoking sections in our resteraunts!

Yea I wish they would get rid of the smoking sections here in SC as well.
My mom substitute teaches a few days a week at a few Greenville county middle schools and she says that the lack of respect for teachers or one another is just outrageous.
She agrees that the probelm stems from home.

High school kids don't mind wearing uniforms, they wear them all the time.
Get's 'em ready for prison. :)

Where I went to school in Chicago there were no dress codes , we could wear whatever we wanted but even as a child I could see where smart , polite and otherwise nice kids were picked on because they didn't dress cool. They were soon targets of jokes and sometimes punching bags of the kids whose parents had money. I remember thinking this was not fair. They did not deserve that treatment everyday just because of their appearance. So yes I would support school uniforms to level the playing field if nothing else.

let's not forget cell phones! Kids in school should not have cel phones!

This reminds me of one other thing I forgot to mention. The students will come into class and bring a cell phone, ipod, CD player, hat, a drink, food, and all the other things they are NOT supposed to have and when you ask them to write down something they don't have a PENCIL! You would think that since they are at school they would have a pencil wouldn't you? It just shows you what is important to them and it sure isn't learning!

Get's 'em ready for prison. :)

LOL!!!

:D

hmmm...

when I was a kid we had options... wasn't long ago...

some kids chose to spend money on clothes... some on pot or other mind altering BS... and then there was the crowd I ran with... we wore t shirts in fair weather... and put on an over shirt when it got a bit colder... and we spent money on our cars... lot of it was fixing problems but what we had left over... it was bigger tires for our trucks and go fast and dress up for our cars... and good tunes... the gear heads didn't care about lookin' preppy... we left that to the preps... the cats that smoked pot didn't bother anyone... they thought our cars were cool... the preps were kinda hit and miss on it... but we all got along at a party... at school we intermingled a bit... the extreme preps did thier thing... the pot heads did thier thier thing... and us gear heads did our thing... no violence... when the weekend came we went out and had fun... for us it was sling mud or go to the races and cruise the strip... everyone was on the strip from our school... and we would hang together...

I bounced around with the preps going to dance clubs and all that... (I fixed thier cars) and when out on the strip cruising we wound bounce around in different cars (69 road runner, 70 GTX, my camaro, 69 & 70 mustangs, low rider 72 chevy pickup, 69 cornet, 65 barracuda, 70 challenger, 70 torino GT, and various 4x4's ...

we all got along pretty well... we had respect for eachother... didn't need a dress code...

I think a dress code is a bandaid for a deeper problem...

kinda like body filler on a rusted dented rear quarter panel...

I think a dress code is a bandaid for a deeper problem...

It is. It's a step in the right direction though, for sure. The deeper problem is the lack of respect for authority (and each other) due to a lack of proper upbringing and other factors. If the schools help teach respect by taking away variables such as personal clothing and "gotta have it" toys that do nothing but distract them, all the better.

It's not the 'end all, be all' of fixes, but I believe it'll certainly help.

It is. It's a step in the right direction though, for sure. The deeper problem is the lack of respect for authority (and each other) due to a lack of proper upbringing and other factors. If the schools help teach respect by taking away variables such as personal clothing and "gotta have it" toys that do nothing but distract them, all the better.

It's not the 'end all, be all' of fixes, but I believe it'll certainly help.

my basis of morality came from men of honor...wether it had been military service or keeping up a farm...

these things are lost for the current generation...

on a lighter note... some of the best car builders came from good old farm boy sense...

I regretably did not serve in the armed forces... and I do regret it... if I could turn back time... I know what I would have done... I would have served and gone back to the farm to have a better understanding of basic morality and work some land on the family farm...

Uniforms are a step in the right direction I suppose. I am troubled by the blame the parents attitude that is always the answer.

The culture is the problem, the non-parenting parents are just a symptom and not a cause. Just look at what passes as appropriate for TV today.

What about the AIG insurance commercial were the guy ofers to "milk" the bull? The inference is over the top!

Parents will never raise thier children right until society is healed. I drove past the Hustler Store in Monroe, Ohio the other day and it was packed at 2pm. The shoppers felt no shame at shopping there.

I hear people talk of taking the family to see a movie, then I end up turning it off before it's over when I watch it on DVD because it's got too much garbage. Someone else thought it was family appropriate.

Any way, I better shut up now as this is a hot one for me.


Good Day


LDR

I'll put all three of my kids in uniforms if I thought it would help...My two younger ones are okay. My oldest (13) has his moments. He has no discipline at his dad's so when he comes home he tries to pull the same BS. Not happening...I still have no qualms about knocking him on his backside, bigger than me or not! It has not yet come to that, but no doubt soon will. My theory with protective services? Either I discipline him now or you do it later.

I went to a Catholic grade school and the uniforms were kind of nice back then because my mom was very poor and she could barely afford those. So it was nice for me to be able to fit in with the other kids who's parents had money. Plus the Catholic girls looked so good in thier uniforms.

The culture is the problem, the non-parenting parents are just a symptom and not a cause. Just look at what passes as appropriate for TV today.

What about the AIG insurance commercial were the guy ofers to "milk" the bull? The inference is over the top!

Parents will never raise thier children right until society is healed. I drove past the Hustler Store in Monroe, Ohio the other day and it was packed at 2pm. The shoppers felt no shame at shopping there.

I hear people talk of taking the family to see a movie, then I end up turning it off before it's over when I watch it on DVD because it's got too much garbage. Someone else thought it was family appropriate.

Any way, I better shut up now as this is a hot one for me.


Good Day


LDR

I think you have that backwards. When I was growing up, if some "family" show had half the garbage in it that they all seem to have now, the kids was sent from the room, or the channel changed, or whatever. Granted, we watched very little TV growing up...and I watch even less now (I sometimes go for weeks without watching 1 minute of it). Parent's CAN control what their kids watch on TV or what they do with their free time...although it is for sure harder now that it has all gotten so out of hand. I think a very large amount of parents have gotten lax on parenting their kids...others take advantage of this lax-edness (is that a word?) to make a buck.
What I think is so sad about the whole situation is that all this "coolness" in school, and having all the latest toys and gadgets, and getting away with watching TV 10 hours a day or playing video games all the time is that when that kid finally gets out of school, he/she is totally unprepared for the real world. I guess that is why the average age that people move out of their parents house nowadays is sometime in their early 30's :sad:

I will admit right off I didn't read all the posts (yet). Uniforms are not a bad thing but, I think many people don't understand. I read several replies like "I went to private school" etc.. Even todays kids in private schools wear uniforms. The uniform is not the issue nor is it the cure to the real problem/s. Most kids that go to private schools have parents that care and that are involved in their lives. Not many parents are going to fork over the $$ for private school and not care how the kid behaves or how the childs acts. Go to a "bad" area with troubled teens put them in a uniform and a private school, not much would change with their behavior, unless the home life was changed as well. Once again it's not the uniform that makes a kid smart or get good grades. Even if you make uniforms the norm in all public schools, there will always be a way to "personalize" your appearance. The whole gang thing/excuse is BS. Unless you are going to tell them all how to wear their hair, what size the uniform has to be, exactly how it has to be worn, what color socks, shoe laces, belts, etc.. There will always be a way to "express" ones self.

I do believe when you dress well you tend to act a little better but, that is not always true either.

We need to work on the "real" problem and if uniforms is a start in that direction I am all for it. I just have to be honest and say I doubt that will make any difference at all. Are you going to cut off the kids fingers that are throwing up gang signs? You don't need to have any specific color on to "claim".

I'm all for uniforms.
My 2 Boys attend a Catholic School for several reasons. One is in 2nd year of Pre School and the other is in 1st grade. I won’t say they are perfect but, they are in the most part very well behaved. Most of the time.
They are actually TAUGHT TO READ, WRITE, and do MATH using their own god given mind and common sense.
No electronic help other than maybe phonics.
We as parents are encouraged and expected to assist our kids with their home work. Not to do it for them but to spend time with them and help them learn. It's actually exciting to be there when they finally understand what they are learning. They get so excited they want to learn more.
Also, in my household we also encourage our kids to be leaders. If they sway and start to make wrong decisions in whatever they do, we help them understand what common sense is and how to make the right decisions.
As a parent you see first hand where your child exceeds or is having trouble learning. From there you can make any necessary adjustments in your child’s learning curve. In public schools, seems to me that the parent blames the teachers if a child is falling behind. The parent doesn’t take action. They just blame the school.
I am a FIRM BELIEVER that everything in the way that a child behaves, starts at home. A parent must set the guidelines and be a parent. Lack of Displine from today’s parents is a major part of the reason why kids today just don’t give a hoot and expect every thing to be given to them.
It all STARTS AT HOME!
I won't say my kids don't have electronic gadgets. IMO they have too many.
But, they have to earn their play time. No electronic games are allowed just to quiet then down or to get them out of our hair.
As a matter of fact, If they get too wrapped up in a electronic game they are playing and the game becomes more important than family, We remind them that family is more important and the game goes off. We then pursue another form of family oriented entertainment.
At dinner time at our house everyone is expected to sit together untill everyone is done eating and share, while eating, what they had learned that day. It drives the kids nuts. We also, every night before bed, watch a decent movie, and remind them that family is more important than anything.
Everything in which a child behaves now and in their future starts at home.
You would be amazed in the transformation in which a child behaves.
And it will last them their lifetime.
So, Be the Parent, spend alot of time with your kids Smother them, and envolve yourselves in their lives. Teach them right from wrong. It's not someone elses job, It's yours, You! Their Mom's and Dads.
Before you know it they will be respectful young adults. Hopefully!

Uniforms are a step in the right direction. It certrainly won't "cure" the ills of society, but it is a peg in the hole. With the societal evolution that has taken place over the last generation(s) I think we have a long road to hoe in order to make this a "kinder, gentler nation". Anything and everything we can do to raise 'em up right goes in the plus column.

Some of my best friends are teachers and administrators in both the public and private school sector. In the public school arena a common thread is that the kids are undisciplined at home and their upbringing makes it difficult for them to do their job. There are so many distractions at school - opposite sex attraction, drugs, cliques, etc. - that every distraction added has a exponential effect. What's "fair" for the families and, especially, the kids is for them to be afforded a good education. The less distractions the better the chance of the kids receiving what they are entitled to.

Both of my girls go to private school. I feel very fortunate to have the ability to send them there. The schools have very strict rules:

If your child is more than 5 minutes late the parents get fined $5.00
If it happens more than 3 thimes in a semester, the PARENTS get warned - after that the fines go up (all the money goes to the kids)
Uniforms are mandatory - no uniform, no education
No makeup or jewelry (watches are the exception)There are many more rules, but all go to the end result of making sure the kids have every opportunity to learn without any distractions. EVERY SINGLE CHILD that I know of that has gone to a public high school after going to this school during their primary years, and all the ones that have gone on to college have been light-years ahead of their counterparts. Plus we have the added benefit of seeing plesant, well-mannered and polite kids every day we go to drop them off and pick them up.

So, will uniforms solve the problem? No, but it's a start.