Ok. Like most of us my 69 was a MANY year long project to get it on the road and looking half way decent. Four years ago I bought the engine that would go into the car. Bought it from an engine building shop that advertised the engine at having 350 HP. Four years later the car is operational and I have only 1,400 miles on it. Last weekend I went and had it Dyno Tuned to see what kind of numbers the engine was putting out and if it needed any "tweeking". After 5 hours worth of tuning and at least 30 pulls on the dyno. To everyones suprise the engine was only getting 205 HP to the ground. Add 20% for tranni loss ( 700R4 ) and we're looking at roughly 250 HP at the crank. The engine shop gave me a selections of Cams to choose from, so I know that the 350 HP clam legally could be plus or minus 10... 20... 30 HP. But I am MISSING 100 HP ? I could go on and on about the equipment the engine has on it. But the real question is this.

I've got the engine receipt with the model number on it claiming to be at 350 HP. I've got the receipt from the Dyno Shop and HP and Torque print out prooving I was there and the test was done. Even after 4 years, do you think this engine shop has any responsibility? I paid for 350 HP ( plus or minus ) and I got 250 HP ( PROVEN ). This isn't a broken engine warranty claim. This is a performance claim.

Even after 4 years, do you think this engine shop has any responsibility?

Sorry, but no I don't.

The numbers dynos spit out are pretty subjective, anyway. Are you happy with the performance?

No Sir ...

Not happy with the performance at all.
It's not the tire melting beast I had dreamed about for 8+ years.
I alway thought it was a little "weak" ... but thought it needed to break in first then be tuned. And now... it's STILL weak.

Tell us about the motor . What are the specs? What cam? What intake? What heads? What stall converter? With info like this maybe we can see if there is just a mismatch in parts or something else.

Chris - I think after 4 years you will be hard pressed to get anyone to listen to you with respect to power claims. What did you buy? A short block you added your heads and other bolt-ons? A long block with your intake and carb added? or a complete engine carb, pan, exhaust and dist? It all makes a big difference in getting the advertised 350hp. As Al points out you could run from dyno to dyno and see 30-50 hp difference at the wheels. You could be loosing more like 30% through the trans and converter. Are you running headers? There's 30hp if not.

From there did the tuner at the dyno really wring out all that was there? what kind of timing numbers did he end up with for best run? I hate to say it but I have seen guys pay hundreds for dyno time and all the tuning ever done was idle mixture and adding and removing some timing.

I deal with parts and service everyday on warranty issues. Most standard warranties are 12 months or 12,000 miles. Which ever comes first. I have had several engine built for our shops from local engine shops and there warranty is 6 months or less, no milage warranty. Most of the time when you build an engine for performance there is very little warranty. Most of the time they try to find another reason why the engine has failed. Since it has been 4 years since you bought the engine you will mostlikely will not get any help, but do you have the same intake, carb., dist., headers, ect. installed on your engine as they did when they dyno tested the engine before you bought it? Did anyone do a compression test? Do you have an electric water pump? What is the crankshaft pulley turning, (ALT., WTR PMP, PWR STR, A/C CMP.)? Every little bit you take away from the crankshaft will increase HP. There are a lot of things that could cause this problem, but you are talking about 100 HP differance. Hope this will help.

I'll shoot from the hip cause all the info is at home.
600 cfm Edelbrock (1405 )
Edelbrock Performer Intake
Re-worked Chevy Iron Heads ( 2.02/1.60 )
Crower Cam ( don't have all the specs handy )
Lift at about .456
Hooker 1 5/8 Headers
Flowmaster 2 1/2 inch all the way back
350 cu in. ( probably bored .30 over )
700R4 from Bowtie Overdrives
2,200 Stall
10 Inch rear end with 3.55 Richmonds and Eaton Posi

am I forgetting anything ?

Also ...
The heads and cam were installed by this specific shop.
All I did was add intake, carb, and headers.

DjD...
As I sat there for 4+ hours I think I saw the poor guy doing everything he could. He took the distributor ( HEI) from the engine and ran it on a machine and re-arced it? Re-adjusted the jets in the carb because it was right out of the box and running WAY rich. He also found that the original wire harness to the engine still had some sort of restrictor wire in place so that the ignition wouldn't get fried over 5,000 rpm's?? So he re-wired that. ALSO discovered that the "valves are floating" after 5,000 and the engine falls flat on it's face. I'm not mechanic by any means, but I think he did all he could. Must have felt bad for me too because out of almost 5 hours he only charged me for 2 :-(

The 600 will also be leaning out the engine low to mid 5000 rpm
What rpm is the 205 hp at.
Also the estimates the dyno out above have a good chance of being more...and very likely low if it hasnt been calibrated in a long time..as are most workshop dynos...they are used for tuning not accurate readouts.

I am no expert, but were the heads originally 1.94 valves? If so and the heads were not plunge cut around the intakes that could be hurting flow. Reportedy the 2.02 valves will flow less than the 1.94 w/o the relief around the intakes.

Ok...
...To everyones suprise the engine was only getting 205 HP to the ground. Add 20% for tranni loss ( 700R4 ) and we're looking at roughly 250 HP at the crank.
... I am MISSING 100 HP ?

Even after 4 years, do you think this engine shop has any responsibility? I paid for 350 HP ( plus or minus ) and I got 250 HP ( PROVEN ). This isn't a broken engine warranty claim. This is a performance claim.

:hurray: I WIN :hurray: I WIN :hurray:
Hey Chris - does this ring any bells?


Hey guys ...
Need the help of the Pro's in here to I.D. my engines potential.
I bought my engine from a local shop that has been in business for a long time.
I'm "told" this combination should net me roughly 350hp and 400 lbs of tq.

Thanks !!


I'll take a stab at this*
I'd say it will put out 250~255 - tops... Of course I'm no "professional"...
That's of course because this engine has 'screaming horsepower and near light speeds!!!' (wink) (wink) (wink) - he said, in low rumbling voice...
They don't "dyno" a thing - oh, that's right, no dyno in their shop.
Good warranty though - but, I hope it don't break on ya...

Seriously though - get it installed - have the 'ol a$$-O-Meter finely calibrated and then lean on it...
Does it feel like 350(+) HP?
Does it have to the torque to excite the rear tires? - 400(+) Flbs should help do that...

Yes, they've been in business for years - building stock motors. Some of the years of experience should transfer to performance builds - most doesn't...

Isn't the warranty that shop offers @ 50,000 miles - what is the time limit?

From original thread - http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=81379

So what was the prize for knowing this engines output a couple months ago?
Please don't tell me I get the motor :sad:

John

That sucks, 205hp is really down. Warranty wise your not going to have any recourse. If you want the power I'd start with a compression and leakdown test. If that checks out good you should probably start with a good set of Vortec cylinder heads, and matching Air Gap intake. Your 600cfm carb should still work OK on those, but you might consider a 750. Being you already spec'd your cam, you may still be happy with it. I'd change it just to be safe, and to take advantage of technology that has changed in the last 4 years. If you do those things you should be seeing an easy 350-400hp at the crank and around 300 at the wheels.

Yeah Yeah Vintage 68...
You were right. I'd like to shove this motor right up their tail pipe.
Didn't even have the HP they were claiming, AND the values "float" above 5,000 rpm.

Warrenty was 5 year 50,000 miles.
It's been 4 years and I've got 1,400 miles.