I am having a hell of a time deciding on what set up to run in my 69 Camaro. The car is currently running a TH400 with a BTE 3500 stall. Sucker is a rocket when I jump on it but at crusie its kinda boring. I plan on going the track maybe 4-6 times a year is what I am guessing. here is the kicker...I have a GV in the garge but I have yet to install it. I was thinking if I sold the whole set up I would be close to the TKO 600 swap. I know this motor would be a kick to drive around if it was behind a nice stick!!

Another question...for those that have made the swap from a built auto with a nice stall how did the performance change?? Was it more fun to drive??? Was it slower or faster at the strip???


Goals for the car:

11.9's with 1.6 or so 60 foots
Fun to drive on street
Duribility
overdrive

I don't take mine to the strip, but I couldn't imagine it with anything but a stick. I have a TKO 500 and even though I enjoyed driving it with an M-20, I really enjoy driving it now. If I ever get too old to push the clutch I'll probably sell it. There's just something about rowing a sports car through the gears I can't describe. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Street machines have 3 pedals!

That said, unless you're Ronnie Sox reincarnated, you'll be giving up a couple of tenths and some consistency at the strip.

I am building a BB stroker to play with at the strip (few times a year) and for me, I would rather loose a few 10ths then give up the TKO!:thumbsup: But if you are a serious racer, I would say stick to an auto on the 1/4 strip.

I made the switch from a turbo 350 with a 3500 stall. Going to the Tremec was the best thing I have done for my car. The first gear is much deeper in the Tremec, it was like going from 3.08 to 4.11 with the automatic. Plus it has the overdrive gear, which is sooooo cool. I felt there was no comparison, the Tremec would have torn up the same exact set up with the automatic, if you don't miss a gear. Plus it is so fun rowing through the gears, a cool factor in itself. If there was two down falls it would be when you get stuck in stop and go traffic and the price of the set up.

If I had a pure race car then I would have stayed with the automatic.

Tko 600,, nuff said, clean uncluttered installation, one less component to worry about.

Cant go wrong with a tremec for the fun factor, Best money i ever spent http://www.camaros.net/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif


bob

Damn.....So far its TKO all the way. Not one so far for the auto/gear vendors.
For the guys with a TKO...how is launching it at the track??? Any back to back comparisons with the stalled auto???

Hi, I have switched from a Turbo 350 with 5000 stall to a TKO and agree with the others. Best thing I ever did to the car. Drivability is much better and twice the fun. I used to average a 1.52 60' times with the auto and, with only one trip to the track to compare to, have a best of 1.68 60' with the TKO. Mainly because of the increased gear ratio and increased RWHP also lack of launching experience. I used to run high 6's at 99.5mph now 7.20 at 100.2in the 1/8. I lost a couple tenths and gained MPH. Lost all in the 60'. The car definatly feels faster and is a blast to drive.
Go with a Tremec and you will never look back.

Bobby

I also have the tko600 (.64) in my 67 and love it! Here is a short vid going down the track. Was able to make 4 passes down our local track before it closed permanently. Last pass was 11.45@119 with 26" slicks

pump gas sbc
3725lbs
tko600

http://media.putfile.com/HRP-3-17-06-26



http://home.hawaii.rr.com/jordanshawn/P1010062%20copy.jpg

[QUOTE=Rayzor]I also have the tko600 (.64) in my 67 and love it! Here is a short vid going down the track. Was able to make 4 passes down our local track before it closed permanently. Last pass was 11.45@119 with 26" slicks

pump gas sbc
3725lbs
tko600

What engine combo are you running?

Well it depends on the use of the car. Sticks are fun to drive on the street. When it comes to drag racing a street machine/muscle car the automatic comes out on top. You could always go manual valve body in your th400 and with the GV you will have a 6 speed anyways. You have to ask yourself how important your trips to the track are. If you plan to race any brackets or events then the auto is the only way to go. If you don't really care what the car runs then go with the TKO. There is more to life than drag racing. If you have the pro touring type of car then the TKO would be my choice. If you have more of a street/strip car then I would go automatic.

Thanks for responses! Rayzor and zdld17 just what I was looking for. Some real world back to back comparisons. I think I am for sure leaning towards the stick now.

Rayzor....nice car and pass! What is the rest or your combo??? 119 trap is really moving.

my opinion is the auto is better for a drag ONLY car as well, but if you spend the money on a Mcleod soft-lock clutch you can have a killer drag stick setup as well - it just cost more money to make it work perfect at the track with the stick. I personally have had both auto and sticks and I refuse to go back to an auto. I love drag racing too and while I can get it to work pretty good, I have had some problems at the track with my clutch setups, but I just have to quit being a tight azz and buy the soft lock clutch setup!. I just bought a TKO 600 and I would say that you could do the swap for less $$$ if you fabricate the bulk of the stuff yourself and dont bother with the "kit". I also stongly recomend you use a scattersheild, it may save your feet/legs in the future.

Have you ever tried to eat a cheeseburger, fries and milkshake and talk on you cell phone going down the road with a stick? Auto all the way!!

Just kidding - wish I'd spent the money I did on my auto toward a TKO.

BUT - the OD auto is very nice.

Have you ever tried to eat a cheeseburger, fries and milkshake and talk on you cell phone going down the road with a stick? Auto all the way!!

Just kidding - wish I'd spent the money I did on my auto toward a TKO.

BUT - the OD auto is very nice.



Thats so true......I love to eat and drive! Oh well the wife is gonna have to feeed me while I drive....

Thanks for responses! Rayzor and zdld17 just what I was looking for. Some real world back to back comparisons. I think I am for sure leaning towards the stick now.

Rayzor....nice car and pass! What is the rest or your combo??? 119 trap is really moving.
Dont forget to do it right, Dial in your bell housing etc. Take it easy for about 5-800 miles then it will shift like stirring hot butter.

Thanks for the kind words about my car! I agree with what others have said. If its a strip car that would be driven on the street at times then go with the automatic(cosistency,less driveline shock on launch,trans brake etc...).If its a street car that would be taken to the track once in a while, tko!!

To answer some questions/PM's about my car. It is a pro touring street car. I take it on cruises, drive to work, lost our track so i entered my first car show LOL! etc...


Car runs on 92oct pump gas. Also has:
Air conditioning
pwr steering
pwr windows
pwr door locks
pwr trunk release
pwr antenna
2-way alarm
keyless entry
mp-3 plyr
30lbs of thermodamp (like dynamat)
all steel panels
full deluxe interior
fold down rear seat
cs130 alt conv.
4 whl discs
factory headrests etc..

combo :
434 n/a sbc
afr220
udharold custom grind street roller
vic jr
demon carb
hedman 1 3/4 headers
tko 600
slide-a-links
12 bolt w/4.11 posi
2.5" flowmaster exh.

Alot of the combo was a result/recommendation of people here at team camaro!

3pedals: I originally ordered a mcleod clutch setup but it was not ready to ship when the tko was so I went with the centerforce DF. I only had 4-passes on a car/combo that was new so I know I have alot more tuning to do(tire psi,suspension,carb,timing,launch/shift rpms etc...) but with no track it aint gonna happen (also I was told to have a rollbar & restraints put in after my last pass which I really dont want to have in this car anyway). I launched around 5K(4850 per data log) power-shifting at 6k (6800 per data) and crossed the traps at 6480 rpm in 4th gear.

More pics attached below.

6d9 sorry for hijacking your thread with a very long post, just thought it would be easier to answer all the questions/pm's in this one thread. Thanks!


http://home.hawaii.rr.com/jordanshawn/P1010121copy.jpg

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/jordanshawn/engine2.jpg


http://home.hawaii.rr.com/jordanshawn/P1010063%20copy.jpg


http://home.hawaii.rr.com/jordanshawn/int.jpg
http://home.hawaii.rr.com/jordanshawn/P1010154%20copy.jpg


http://home.hawaii.rr.com/jordanshawn/nexshow.jpg

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/jordanshawn/P1010122%20copy.jpg

Rayzor, No worries about a hijack at all. I wanted to hear your combo as much as anyone! What are the specs on your cam?? Comp ratio?? How does it like being in 5th gear and lugging down?? Thanks!

Rayzor, No worries about a hijack at all. I wanted to hear your combo as much as anyone! What are the specs on your cam?? Comp ratio?? How does it like being in 5th gear and lugging down?? Thanks!

\Razor, I want to see a little more of your engine specs. Crank, rod choice, length?, piston choice. Did you use Dart Little M? I am considering this but and trying to get my ducks in a row. I have considered the HRC ( Howards Racing group) powdered rods and crank but I am more a believer in Scat and Eagle. If this is the same Howards that made the alloy rods of long ago,, I trust their expertise.. So if you don't mind?

You can send me a pm if you wish. If anyone has any input on this , I would appreciate it. Just in the kicking stages at the moment . If you do mind, I will understand. BTW, who's bell housing is that? Entire package looks good. Be careful with that manifold lifting device, there is a lot of weight on those 4 5/16th bolts.

I'll also cast my vote for the TKO 600! My car was previously an automatic, and this was the best money I've spent on the car, period. I too occationally go to the strip and launch between 3500-4000 rpm and shift at 6000 rpm. Still dialing it in but best 60 foot is a 1.7 with drag radials. I also use the center force dual friction clutch and haven't had any problems. I used the factory shifter for a while and just recently installed a Pro 5.0 shifter. This helped power shifting a bunch! For less agressive driving the factory shifter is adequate. Good luck with your conversion!

JW, Thanks for the reply. You car and mine is very similar so thats kinda cool.
The times you are running is what I am looking to do when its all over. What size DR's are you running?? What kind of rpm's you turning on the highway with the 3.73's??? With you old auto tranny what stall were you running?? Was it quicker with the auto or stick?? Thanks !

6D9, currently I'm running 275/60-15 bf goodrich drag radials. I also run a drag racing monoleaf with one added short leaf in combination with CE slid-a link traction bars with about -4 pinion angle. About 15 psi in the tires with a good burn out and launch at about 3500 rpm. I get maybe one half to a full rotation of spin then it hooks and goes. My best 60 foot so far is a 1.73 which I think could be a little better. Not had much time to experiment with it this summer yet, but hoping to real soon. My rpms on the highway are great! I cruise with traffic at 75mph at about 2200rpm. The previous automatic had 2400 stall and had only been run on an 1/8 mile track by the previous owner. My 1/8th mile times are quicker with the TKO but I don't think the previous owner had everthing dialed in so this may not be the best comparison. Keep in mind there is less loss of power through the drive train when running a manual versus and automatic so if you can launch good and shift cleanly, theoretically you could be quicker. I love shifting gears and really enjoy watching the nostalgia stick shift cars at the track. Nothing like grabbing another gear at 6000 rpm! Stick shifting provides a more visceral experience driving the car. (how's that for a two dollar word!)

I would go TKO! I have a Doug Nash (Richmond Gear) 5 speed with 3.25 gears in my '69 now, and love it, but want an overdrive for the highway. although 3.25 is good, and way better than my 4.11 gears, I want even lower rpm's. With the TKO and the .64 OD, it's like low 2 something gears! Now thats crusin'!
Dont want to use a 6 speed, so may sell mine and get the TKO...from what I have read, the TKO is as strong or stronger than the Nash because of the lower first gear ratio, (numericaly).
AND, if you do a decent automatic with a manual valve body, you gonna be shifting anyway...cant tell me you would just leave it in drive and go...everyone I know with a man-valve body is ALWAYS shifting...WHY?, cause it's FUN! Good Luck!

Cool thread.....
I have a TH400 that was gone thru, and I plan on a GV before it's installed in my project. I would like to hear from anyone that has a GV for some first hand opinions. So far, only TKO owners have replied.....anyone??

Rut :cool:

Rayzor, No worries about a hijack at all. I wanted to hear your combo as much as anyone! What are the specs on your cam?? Comp ratio?? How does it like being in 5th gear and lugging down?? Thanks!

6D9, Its been a while but IIRC the cam was 254@.050 .582 lift. I was worried about the .64 5th gear with the cam but udharold told me it would be okay and it was. No bucking/surging etc.. The cubic inches/stroke helped out, car idles with 11"+vacuum. Comp ratio is 10.7 to 1 static with a zero decked block. 8.2 dynamic.

\Razor, I want to see a little more of your engine specs. Crank, rod choice, length?, piston choice. Did you use Dart Little M? I am considering this but and trying to get my ducks in a row. I have considered the HRC ( Howards Racing group) powdered rods and crank but I am more a believer in Scat and Eagle. If this is the same Howards that made the alloy rods of long ago,, I trust their expertise.. So if you don't mind?

You can send me a pm if you wish. If anyone has any input on this , I would appreciate it. Just in the kicking stages at the moment . If you do mind, I will understand. BTW, who's bell housing is that? Entire package looks good. Be careful with that manifold lifting device, there is a lot of weight on those 4 5/16th bolts.

zdld17,

Block is a dart lil m with steel caps. If I had to do it again I would get the one with raised cam. Crank is an eagle 4340, rods 6" eagle 4340 h-beams with L19 bolts. Pistons are JE flat tops.

Bell housing is a mcleod. I too didnt like all that weight on 4 bolts to my aluminum intake :) I just used it to dial in blowbell and trial fit tko.

Thanks,, It was the block and rod selection I was concerned about. Thanks again.

Cool thread.....
I have a TH400 that was gone thru, and I plan on a GV before it's installed in my project. I would like to hear from anyone that has a GV for some first hand opinions. So far, only TKO owners have replied.....anyone??

Rut :cool:


Guess not.....oh well.

Rut :cool:

We have a GV behind a TH350, very cool system. I think for ease of installation and reliability its a good way to go. I read Royce (Camaroman7d)had used a GV behind a blown motor with good success.

The way things are looking right now for cash might be that I will keep the TH400/GV. Maybe down the road I can swing the swap.

If you are happy with what you have now and just want better crusing, go GV.

I plan on putting a TKO in my 77 and a OD Auto in my 67. So I might be fickle.

We have a GV behind a TH350, very cool system. I think for ease of installation and reliability its a good way to go. I read Royce (Camaroman7d)had used a GV behind a blown motor with good success.

Thanks MickyT for the response. My mechanic guru friend claims they are a bullit proof unit when backing a TH400 that is properly built. I like the idea of putting the shifter in D and letting it run as a 4 speed, w/ od, but being able to go thru each gear manually using the unit between 1 and 2 and 3, making it an auto 6speed. Not taking anything away from standard shift cars. I've had my share, and do love driving them, but the ease of an auto is nice no doubt. Thanks for finally sharing something about the GV!

Rut:cool:

In ways I am kinda glad I am keeping it. I know the car will be faster at the strip and less abuse on the car to get the times I want it to run. Should be a pretty bullet proof set up!