Bob Lutz has a comment on that very topic :D

IMO the new Camaro has a great blend of retro and current/future styling.
As much as I love the new Mustang design, I'm already bored with all of the different tuner versions. It's overdone already IMO...

Nice work GM :D

http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/news/maximum-bob-lutz-on-the-new-camaro-dont-call-it-a-69-chump-195655.php

and your point is???

Bob Lutz has a comment on that very topic :D

IMO the new Camaro has a great blend of retro and current/future styling.
As much as I love the new Mustang design, I'm already bored with all of the different tuner versions. It's overdone already IMO...

Nice work GM :D

http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/news/maximum-bob-lutz-on-the-new-camaro-dont-call-it-a-69-chump-195655.php

and your point is???


His point is that he likes it ;)

That Multi-Quote function is neato :D

It is cool :)

That is their mistake!!!

and your point is???

Nice ---

It gives some info on their reasoning and the direction they chose to take :cool:

Yea, but we all know how it turned out when Bob Lutz followed his own ways instead of what the car buying public wanted with the 04-06 GTO. How'd that one turn out Bob? You'll sell more of them if more people like them, no matter what you think about how retro it should or shouldn't be. Alot of people like the new design, but more people want it to be more retro.I thought GM was in business to give the public what it wants, not just what Mr. Lutz wants.

The Thunderbird was retro, and it did pretty well :rolleyes:

The retro approach can be risky.

Yea, but we all know how it turned out when Bob Lutz followed his own ways instead of what the car buying public wanted with the 04-06 GTO. How'd that one turn out Bob? You'll sell more of them if more people like them, no matter what you think about how retro it should or shouldn't be. Alot of people like the new design, but more people want it to be more retro.I thought GM was in business to give the public what it wants, not just what Mr. Lutz wants.

Comparing this car to the previous GTO is like apples and oranges IMO.
The GTO was slammed into production. They took an existing car, made some cosmetic changes and had to pay to ship them to the USA to sell them. That alone bumped up the cost.

Lack of styling and price killed the GTO IMO.

This car is being engineered from the ground up on a shared platform, hardley the same thing.

Does this mean it will succeed? Of course not. How GM prices it will have a huge impact.

The Thunderbird was retro, and it did pretty well :rolleyes:

The retro approach can be risky.

That Thunderbird looked good.

Price and lack of performance killed that car. Building it on the Lincoln LS/Jag chassis made for an nice ride but they overpriced it.

Anyone who compares the previous GTO to the new Camaro or feels the new Camaro should be more retro because (allegedly) that's what the buying public wants...needs to be thoroughly educated in how the United States automotive industry works

You people forget the type of customers that we are selling our cars to. This is not 1944 or 1967....it's 2006. We are dealing with a cynical buying public. One that tires easily of their cars and is always looking for the latest and greatest and hippest thing out there. Products are like chewing gum today....they chew the hell out of it until the flavor's gone then they spit it out on the sidewalk and start frantically looking for another peice. Case in point...Thunderbird. A great car....a great design....took the world by storm when it debuted. 5 years later....canceled. Why? Because everyone that wanted one bought one....and when all those people had been satisfied...the market dried up. With nowhere to take the design from where it was (because it was so damn retro) they had no choice but to cancel it. Challanger will be no different. Again....a great car....I personally love it. But as soon as the first one rolls off the assembly line you can go ahead and start counting the days until it's canceled. There is no "reach" in those products. They all come out of the gate with a proverbial dead end in their sights. Like a metorite entering the atmosphere....bright and brilliant at first, but then quickly fades away. You watch....after everyone that "wants one" gets one, the demand for those cars will fade to the point where it will no longer be worth it for Chrysle....er, I mean....the Germans to build it. And I guarantee Mustang will be drastically different when they have to build a new one in a few years. That will effect sales....don't think it won't.

And a word about GTO. For the love of God will you SHUT UP about the damn GTO already. Like Overanxious said....apples to oranges. Actually...this might be closer to apples and spinach....they're not even in the same food group. One was a spinoff from an existing car already in production, the other is being designed from the ground up right from the start to be what it will be. We only did the GTO to fill a void in the Rear Wheel Drive performance segment. I don't know that the General had any high hopes for it....but hell they had to take a chance, they needed SOMETHING...ANYTHING. Did it work out for us? No. But at least we offered something instead of sitting on our thumbs for 3 years. The GTO is a great car to drive...and it's fast. If it had been called something like the Pontiac G8...none of you would have said boo about it. I am confident that we are taking our car in the right direction and that we will get the last laugh on all of them. And through the years this Camaro is only going to get better and better and better because it's design will give it the reach to be updated several times for a longer shelf life. If you don't want to be a part of the party...then go sit in your garage with your 2008 Challanger. Hope the novelty lasts long enough for ya.

Anyone who compares the previous GTO to the new Camaro or feels the new Camaro should be more retro because (allegedly) that's what the buying public wants...needs to be thoroughly educated in how the United States automotive industry works

You people forget the type of customers that we are selling our cars to. This is not 1944 or 1967....it's 2006. We are dealing with a cynical buying public. One that tires easily of their cars and is always looking for the latest and greatest and hippest thing out there. Products are like chewing gum today....they chew the hell out of it until the flavor's gone then they spit it out on the sidewalk and start frantically looking for another peice. Case in point...Thunderbird. A great car....a great design....took the world by storm when it debuted. 5 years later....canceled. Why? Because everyone that wanted one bought one....and when all those people had been satisfied...the market dried up. With nowhere to take the design from where it was (because it was so damn retro) they had no choice but to cancel it. Challanger will be no different. Again....a great car....I personally love it. But as soon as the first one rolls off the assembly line you can go ahead and start counting the days until it's canceled. There is no "reach" in those products. They all come out of the gate with a proverbial dead end in their sights. Like a metorite entering the atmosphere....bright and brilliant at first, but then quickly fades away. You watch....after everyone that "wants one" gets one, the demand for those cars will fade to the point where it will no longer be worth it for Chrysle....er, I mean....the Germans to build it. And I guarantee Mustang will be drastically different when they have to build a new one in a few years. That wll effect sales....don't think it won't.

And a word about GTO. For the love of God will you SHUT UP about the damn GTO already. Like Overanxious said....apples to oranges. Actually...this might be closer to apples and spinach....they're not even the same food. One was a spinoff from an existing car already in production, the other is being designed from the ground up right from the start to be what it will be. We only did the GTO to fill a void in the Rear Wheel Drive performance segment. I don't know that the General had any high hopes for it....but hell they had to take a chance, they needed SOMETHING...ANYTHING. Did it work out for us? No. But at least we offered something instead of sitting on our thumbs for 3 years. The GTO is a great car to drive...and it's fast. If it had been called something like the Pontiac G8...none of you would have said boo about it.

There....I think I ranted long enough. Actually I don't know why I even bothered typing this. This is an arguement that can't be won.

Very well stated :cool:

GM paraded the new Camaro this past Friday morning at the Woodward Cruise. when the driver (whoever he was) started the engine, it black-smoked out the pipes....like a stuck choke would do............................
that's retro :thumbsup:

Alot of people like the new design, but more people want it to be more retro.I thought GM was in business to give the public what it wants, not just what Mr. Lutz wants.

Where do your statistics come from? Is this from a poll or are you shooting from the hip based on your own personal bias? I'm somehow not convinced you are in touch with the entire buyer's market for this car.

Just take a look at the poll on this forum! Only 41% say that they would buy it. AND THIS IS A CAMARO WEBSITE!!! Yes, I say its not retro enough. Market demands change. When it runs its course then you move on to something new. It was discontinued because they did not keep up with market demands. IMO build it like it is and it will sell, build it more retro and it will sell more. It will stale out either way. Make the best of it.

when the new GTO was announced, they made it very clear from the get-go that it was only gonna be out for 3 years due to crash standards and what not.
they also said they weren't planning on selling 100,000 of them every year.
i seem to remember 20,000-30,000 being the stated goal, with a USA made replacement to follow sometime after.
the GTO was a marketing experiment to see what went over and what didn't. they learned what they wanted to learn, and now that knowledge is being used in the new Camaro and all across GM's product lines.
and, besides, the GTO was what "everyone" said they wanted. "everyone" said to just throw some retro badges on a Monaro and bring it here. they did, and all anyone did was complain about it. personally, i loved the '05 and '06 GTO with the scoops on the hood and the LS2/6 speed under the hood.

Just take a look at the poll on this forum! Only 41% say that they would buy it. AND THIS IS A CAMARO WEBSITE!!! Yes, I say its not retro enough. Market demands change. When it runs its course then you move on to something new. It was discontinued because they did not keep up with market demands. IMO build it like it is and it will sell, build it more retro and it will sell more. It will stale out either way. Make the best of it.

I was a regular on Corvette forums when the 1997 C5 Corvette wasn't in showrooms yet. Over 50% of the members stated they wouldn't buy a C5, guess what, within a year most of them had them in their own driveways.

Additionally, Contrary to what some may thing, members of internet forums are only a small fraction of the car buyers out there :D

Just take a look at the poll on this forum! Only 41% say that they would buy it. AND THIS IS A CAMARO WEBSITE!!! Yes, I say its not retro enough. Market demands change. When it runs its course then you move on to something new. It was discontinued because they did not keep up with market demands. IMO build it like it is and it will sell, build it more retro and it will sell more. It will stale out either way. Make the best of it.

LOL... the poll surprised me big time. This site is really all about the 1st gen and for there to be 41% of the folks taking the poll planning on buying the car I think it says a lot about the design and the future success story the car will be.

Just paint it to make it retro!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/SIBLY/Cars/Yunickgen5.jpg

and, besides, the GTO was what "everyone" said they wanted. "everyone" said to just throw some retro badges on a Monaro and bring it here. they did, and all anyone did was complain about it. personally, i loved the '05 and '06 GTO with the scoops on the hood and the LS2/6 speed under the hood.

I was reading through some old car crafts and that's EXACTLY what they said to do. Then in a 2005 issue they said exactly the opposite. What a joke. What was it, the GTO only had 10 months of coversion time to US spec, and given the differences between the GTO and the Monaro (right hand drive, etc, gas tank BS..) that's pretty impressive.

Props to Infamous. Keep the faith and good work.

Got cash in hand for my 08' Z28/SS.

"Build it and they will come"

And a word about GTO. The GTO is a great car to drive...and it's fast. If it had been called something like the Pontiac G8...none of you would have said boo about it. I am confident that we are taking our car in the right direction and that we will get the last laugh on all of them. .

Just bought a 2006 GTO Brazen Orange - I cannot figure out why the car is getting bashed - it is totally awesome. I dare anyone to go out and drive one - you'll buy it, just go drive the car.

I can only hope the new Camaro matches the GTO in fit and finish, ride, handling, and of course performance. The car totally rocks!

I hate to say it, but the smiley face grill is growing on me... Count me in on a ragtop as soon as they become available. I guess maybe our inside sources in the automotve industry that have been kind enough to take their time to school us actually do know what they are talking about:thumbsup: Thanks guys!
(I still hope they tweak the rear lights a little though)

LOL... the poll surprised me big time. This site is really all about the 1st gen and for there to be 41% of the folks taking the poll planning on buying the car I think it says a lot about the design and the future success story the car will be.
You're right. It says that this car appeals to much more than JUST Camaro enthusiasts. It speaks to all demographics, and all generations of car owners. For every nay sayer on this board I can guarantee you there is 5 or 6 on another message board like 5thgen, GMinsidenews, LS1tech and a host of others that are salivating to buy it. In other words, for every old Camaro owner out there who decides to pass, there will be 5 or 6 new ones who will gladly take his place.

But ya know...those old Camaro guys are a finicky bunch. You never can quite tell about them. We'll see in '09 if they stay on their side of the fence when one of these cars screams by them on the highway with it's LS3 practically jumping out of the hood.

For one thng, I'm not bashing the GTO. I like the car, but I am bashing M. Lutz for his decision on using this car to put the GTO name on. His opinion on this car was not in touch with the car guy car buying public (slow sales prove that). Therefore when he say's that going more retro isn't the way to go with the new Camaro, I feel he may be missing out on what people want. My point is, just because he thinks it's perfect dosen't mean he's right.As far as did I take or quote a poll about the new Camaro to get in touch with the car buying public about their feelings on the new Camaro and if it's retro enough or not, the answer is no, but I don't need to. I go to car cruises everyweekend and there is always talk about the new Camaro, Challenger, and Mustang(sometimes even moreso than the old iron there). I've never heard anyone, in person, say the new Camaro dosen't need to be more retro. On the contrary, everyone I hear (at shows, on the CB, at other car events, hanging out at the parts store), everyone I hear talk about the new Camaro says the same thing, if it was more retro then they'd buy it. Even diehard GM fans I know are waiting on the new Challenger. People on this site are pretty biased towards Camaro's (it is a Camaro site after all), but I'd expect the response to the question of will you buy the ne Camaro, especially on this site, to be well about 60% saying yes, they would buy the new Camaro, but only 41% saying yes on a Camaro bullitin board, now that really tells me that something is wrong. Yes, most on here are first gen guys (I am too), but they are still new car buyers as well (everyone needs a daily driver). Will people get tired of the new retro body's? Yes, just like they always have. hat's why the factory needs them to evolve like they did in the 60's and 70's without turning them into slugs like in the mid to late 70's. Maybe Ford's next mustang will look more like a 70 Mach1 and keep the lust alive. The Camaro could be much more retro and evolve as well. I don't see how you could go wrong using a classic design and giving it a modern touch and keep updating it enough to keep it fresh without detroying it, could be bad? If Chevy brought out a new full sized, used the Bel Air name, and based it off a 55-57, but with modern power, handling, and comfort, do you think they could build them fast enough?

You know what's interesting about that 41% figure is that everyone is using it as an indicator that the car is unliked here. Well....I just looked at the poll and there is 35.83% who say "maybe" and "not sure". Only 22% said they wouldn't. And how many of that 35.83% are going to continue to sit on the fence in '09? Who's to say that once the car comes out that a lot of them won't jump in and buy and we hit that 60% target? I'll tell you what....I don't know how you're interpreting that poll but I gotta think 22% for "no buy" is pretty damn good. And I like our odds to win over much of those fence sitters.

If Chevy brought out a new full sized, used the Bel Air name, and based it off a 55-57, but with modern power, handling, and comfort, do you think they could build them fast enough?

Kind of brings the SSR to mind. Not the same thing, of course, it was a niche vehicle (one that the niche was non-existent), but just another failed retro design.

I just hope that GM keeps an open mind/ear with the 5th gen and listens to the enthusiasts of the classic camaros along with the potential buyers of the new car. Their usual head-in-the-sand, "we know what we're doing, dont tell us what to do" attitude will simply not cut it. Whether that means more or less retro, that is a tough call.



dave

Gm is in the business to make money for its shareholders and if giving the people what they want will help accomplish that, then it's their duty.

The T-Bird was over priced, and underpowered, and that's why its wasn't the big seller Ford hoped it would be.

If you build it just like a 69 Camaro, then you have no where to go with it and it will be dead in a few years. The new Dodge will be out of production in 3 years, like the Prowler was – and that is their intent, I am sure if it. GM designed this Camaro to continue on. Move forward. Like everyone said, the GTO was a quick deal, they did what people asked (throw badges on a Holden) and then they cried it was boring. The general public is nuts. That car looks better to me every day, at least when they added the better hood.

I’ve said it before & will say it again: I know they are very close to perfect because the average 1st gen guy thinks it doesn’t look enough like a 1st gen, and everyone else thinks it looks too much like a 69 Camaro. I still say once you see it in person, your tune will change. I’ve seen it 3 times and love it. Hopefully GM will kill off the round gauges in square holes, and add vent windows. :p

I’m thinking a 2010 for myself. I need to milk my 2002 Intrigue out that long. :)

Those who say it isn't retro enough, are saying they'd like to see a more retro Camaro for themselves. I don't know if you can really claim one will sell better than a another, although someone may have argued that already.
Retro design is like any other design, if people like it, they'll buy it. The Mustang is not suffering from being retro and to me the retro designs that failed, failed because they were just plain ugly or under-performed for the $$$. If the current Camaro design does well, than GM did the right thing. Allot of times the most successful products are the ones you either love or hate. Not much middle ground. I personally don't like the 5th gen. concept, but I don't think that means it won't do well.

Just take a look at the "who's got the best concept pony car" poll. It says it all. 2/3 of the people choose the challenger! AND THIS IS A CAMARO SITE!!!

whats an ls3?

Just take a look at the "who's got the best concept pony car" poll. It says it all. 2/3 of the people choose the challenger! AND THIS IS A CAMARO SITE!!!
LOL... A 1st gen Camaro site! Of course a retro group is going to pick the car that looks the most retro over something very futuristic. A lot of things change in a short time and car manufactures have to look into the future when introducing new cars.

Look at the difference in each generation of Camaro to see what I mean.

whats an ls3?

Half of an LS-6??? :D

Half of an LS-6??? :D

Or a third of an LS-9 :thumbsup:

whats an ls3?
You'll find out soon enough.

Just take a look at the "who's got the best concept pony car" poll. It says it all. 2/3 of the people choose the challenger! AND THIS IS A CAMARO SITE!!!
In the grand scheme of things....that means absolutely nothing. Whether or not the people on this site like the Camaro concept or not, it won't have any bearing on how the vehicle does when it debuts. We're talking about 1 message board dedicated (primarily) to 1 generation of Camaro. There are 3 other generation groups and millions outside the Camaro community that fell in love with that car. The '09 Camaro will undoubtedly find it's way into the hands of many longtime Camaro enthusiasts, but at the same time it will welcome a new generation of Camaro enthusiats into the fold. This car speaks to EVERYONE...not just a chosen few.

LS3 may very well be a 6.2l version LS2 replacement motor :D

man,

I heard the meanest 4th gen ive ever heard last night. sounded supercharged with a decent cam in it. the guy got on it pretty hard from a light as we were waiting for a table at claim jumper.

cant wait to get me a new camaro! ls7 ls3 ls9 whatever, just build them soon

You'll find out soon enough.

In the grand scheme of things....that means absolutely nothing. Whether or not the people on this site like the Camaro concept or not, it won't have any bearing on how the vehicle does when it debuts. We're talking about 1 message board dedicated (primarily) to 1 generation of Camaro. There are 3 other generation groups and millions outside the Camaro community that fell in love with that car. The '09 Camaro will undoubtedly find it's way into the hands of many longtime Camaro enthusiasts, but at the same time it will welcome a new generation of Camaro enthusiats into the fold. This car speaks to EVERYONE...not just a chosen few.

I can't agree with you. It CAN be more Retro and it should. You cited the fate of the Thunderbird as an example. Bad Example.

Look at the new Stang. It's very Retro, is selling like hotcakes, and I can guarantee that Ford won't let it have the same fate as the Thunderbird, when the Mustang's sales drop, they will re-invent it, and it will move on.

No reason the Camaro can't be Retro, then re-invented to this format in a couple of years.

I can't agree with the logic you stated. Business isn't that hard, you give the customer what they want.

Retro is HOT now, make it Retro. It may not be hot in 3-4 years, change it then.

the cars coming out in 2.5 years, not next week... i think theyre doing the right thing by not making it too retro... i think its a good design (still change a few things... the tail lights and the knightrider thing in the front) and they wont be the last ones to the party with an outdated design in 3 years. instead, everyone will be trying to copy them.

I think they have done a great job of mixing the old and new. Personally I like new cars less and less everyday. Don't get me wrong they drive great but they all seem to copy eachothers designs way to much. I am building a 69 because it is unique and to me the best looking car ever made. To me the new cars are nothing special. They get you where you need to go and that is the end of it. I own a C5 vette and a 545I and they are great cars. Just get lost in the crowd in my opinion.

GM messed up!! If they had any brains the 5th generation Camaro would have been available for sale Friday September 1st 2006. It would have been a 2007 model and it should have been the 40th anniversary Camaro. Since the car won't be coming out until late 2008 they will be several years late to the party. That's GM for you!! I guess better late than never but their arrogance, ignorance & stupidity at the corporate level is what killed their market share. John DeLeorean (the Godfather of the GTO & Firebird) told them the same thing back in 1973. :angry: Now GM is getting pasted by Toyota, Daimler/Chrysler and in some cases Ford. :angry:

1969 RS Camaro--sold :-(
1984 H.O. Z28--sold
1988 5.7L IROC-Z---sold
1969 Camaro---purchased 2 months ago

I can't agree with the logic you stated. Business isn't that hard, you give the customer what they want.
Give the customer what "they" want or what "you" want? I hate to tell ya guy, but outside this message board "you" are in the minority.

Retro is HOT now, make it Retro. It may not be hot in 3-4 years, change it then.
Well...the car isn't coming out until '09 (3 years). So using your logic, we're on the right path.

You'll find out soon enough.


In the grand scheme of things....that means absolutely nothing. Whether or not the people on this site like the Camaro concept or not, it won't have any bearing on how the vehicle does when it debuts. We're talking about 1 message board dedicated (primarily) to 1 generation of Camaro. There are 3 other generation groups and millions outside the Camaro community that fell in love with that car. The '09 Camaro will undoubtedly find it's way into the hands of many longtime Camaro enthusiasts, but at the same time it will welcome a new generation of Camaro enthusiats into the fold. This car speaks to EVERYONE...not just a chosen few.

Yea, It speaks to ME loud and clear... "DO NOT BUY ME"!!!!!

Yea, It speaks to ME loud and clear... "DO NOT BUY ME"!!!!!

Then it looks like your choice is clear, don't buy it. However, there are plenty of us that really like it :)

Give the customer what "they" want or what "you" want? I hate to tell ya guy, but outside this message board "you" are in the minority.


Well...the car isn't coming out until '09 (3 years). So using your logic, we're on the right path.


OK, you say outside this message board, so show me some links where there are others saying that Retro is bad, and show me some links where there is a poll that states opposite what the poll here states.
Where is this "majority" you speak of?

Seriously? where?

FWIW, I'm going to buy one, but I'd know what I'd RATHER have.

I still say if you haven't seen it in person, you can't comment. It looks different live.

The car is desgined to 'live'. If it looked just like a 69, what would they do with it 3 years alter, make a 70? Too close to any past design and it will die again. Mark my words, the Challenger will be here & gone in 4 years, or they will remod it, it will lose the retro thing, and it will die an even worse death.

I don't want the Camaro to be as Retro as the Challenger. I think the Challenger will follow the same fate as the Thunderbird, but I quarantee Ford will update the Mustang when needed and will continue to sell 200,000+ cars.

If Ford can do it, why is that a challenge for GM?

I thank the new camero's body look grate I'm thanking about baying one when they come to odessa the video i have shows all the feeters moter,inside and proformens. so 2009 get here quick



Shawn Lambright :thumbsup:

I kinda like the new CAMARO. Though like the new Mustang it looks FAT. I got mixed feelings about it. So I might just buy it when my Z28decides to wreck or bit the dust in ways I don't want to afford or go throught the rebuild hassel.

Just my $.02

I think we need to differentiate between liking the car and actually buying it. Many people express opinions while never having the intention or ability to afford a car in this price segment, let alone the insurance for a performance car. This applies to younger buyers in particular. Lotsa talk....no cash. I would be very interested to see what the demographic of actual BUYERS turns out to be.

I can definitely say this:
Three friends of mine were anxiously waiting for the Camaro production anouncement before they made a purchasing decision. They are all in their thirties and early forties. Every one of them bought something else (Mustang, Mustang, Charger) after we saw the proposed car in print and in person on the Hot Rod Power Tour. One said he thought the Camaro looked like a japanese interpretation of an American muscle car, and the two others just said it looked more like a boy racer car that belonged with the "slammed" car set. We all agreed that the drivetrain specs etc. were very appealing, it was just the styling that threw us.
My interpretation is it looks like something a six grader penned during math class. N o b o d y has ever said that about my '69.

I don't think there will ever be another camaro that looks as good as the 67-68-69 camaros you just can't beat there style. I do think the new camaro looks better than the 3rd and 4th generation camaros do.

I have commented on this subject on a few post on this site and no matter how much I look at the car...I just dont like it and I dont plan on buying one in the present form.With that said,and from the 4 pages of comments,I agree that dodge has decided to roll the dice with the best looking challenger produced the 71-74 model...retro it ...ride the retro wave ,make money and get out.Ford,whose retro car model I was hoping G.M. would follow,has gone the completely opposite direction.In 1994 (I think) when Ford introduced the retro 65 mustang with the double arch dash and vent behind the door etc...it was radical in the retro department.And the fact that they started retro 1965( the first year of the car) and had steadily moved foward at the rate of about 3 years current to one year retro,in 12 years we're up to a retro 1969 mustang...if that makes sense.Point is that gave them years to develope the car,the styling,the customer base etc...and I gotta tell ya guys that is one badass machine Ford is putting out and all us Chevy guys owe Ford a thank you for keeping hope alive in the 2 door sport coupe market when G.M. and Dodge couldnt hit their ass with both hands.I was Hoping G.M. would start with the retro 67 and work foward ,molding it from year to year...offer an SS package,Z-28 package...big engine.small engine,auto,manual etc...but also build a 6 cylinder base car and have it be a 16 year olds first car that would build some brand loyalty...well...like us.If its just gonna be some hi-dollar gimmick that G.M.'s trying to make a quick buck off of then count me out.

but also build a 6 cylinder base car and have it be a 16 year olds first car that would build some brand loyalty

My first car:

Bought at a DEA Auction for 25 dollars. It was a blue '89 Firebird. It had a v6 2.8 mpi. I was 16. I broke the engine all the way down to the block by my self.I replaced gaskets, put some high performance parts on it. And droped the fuel tank replaced the pump,put a junk yard flow master pipes and muffler on, and I even put a MSD6a/coil(blaster2) on it.First time I cranked her up was magical for me.She was super super slow but I loved her. I left for training 5 months later came back 5 more months later to a vandalised car.I still have it but I can't decide to sell or strip it in to a race car(which I can't afford on E-3 pay in the Army).

Moral of the story I stuck to the GM brand and got me My Z28 camaro. And I love it.

Hey Infamous, The design is great but Could we loose the goofy, high tech mirrors? Thanks

Having said I'm not happy with the styling, I may be interested in an '09 just on the specs alone , and hey...it's a Chevy....and a Camaro.

Hey Infamous, The design is great but Could we loose the goofy, high tech mirrors? Thanks
I can see the outside mirrors getting larger for production, as much as I like the sleek design on the concept :D

The new Camaro is kinda cool, but it is NOTHING like the job Ford did with their latest Mustang. The new Mustang looks like something Chip Foose or Boyd Coddington would have created from an original Mustang.

The new Camaro simply looks like a modern car. I hardly see any retro styling at all. Very boring and disappointing. Not quite as embarrassing as the recent Pontiac GTO, but still not a retro Camaro, IMHO.........

I predict poor sales and limited collectibility. Contrast that to the overwhelming demand for the new Shelby GT 500.

GM designers are still missing the boat. I pity them.

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I have heard this argument a bunch of times, but honestly, when I see the newer Mustangs on the street now, I'm already bored with them. They will go through stylistic changes by the time the Camaro debuts and if you've seen any of the concepts of those changes, they look ridiculously familiar...

http://www.moddedmustangs.com/2009-2012-mustang.html

Look at the silver 2012 and tell me you don't see any similarities.

I have heard this argument a bunch of times, but honestly, when I see the newer Mustangs on the street now, I'm already bored with them. They will go through stylistic changes by the time the Camaro debuts and if you've seen any of the concepts of those changes, they look ridiculously familiar...

http://www.moddedmustangs.com/2009-2012-mustang.html

Look at the silver 2012 and tell me you don't see any similarities.

You could well be correct. Maybe by 2012 the baby-boomers who would have been most likely to buy the Camaro will be too old, and then the Gen-X'ers will start buying, heheh.

GM is still missing the boat, IMO. As proof, just gaze on the recent "GTO" they produced, LOLOL. Whatta joke.

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You could well be correct. Maybe by 2012 the baby-boomers who would have been most likely to buy the Camaro will be too old, and then the Gen-X'ers will start buying, heheh.

GM is still missing the boat, IMO. As proof, just gaze on the recent "GTO" they produced, LOLOL. Whatta joke.

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The horse being beaten is still dead LOL :D

Comparing a new program like Zeta to the GTO isn't even close.

Anyone who does not see the turnaround GM has made in the last 12 months needs to open their eyes. Look at the big picture :D

The new Camaro is kinda cool, but it is NOTHING like the job Ford did with their latest Mustang. The new Mustang looks like something Chip Foose or Boyd Coddington would have created from an original Mustang.

The new Camaro simply looks like a modern car. I hardly see any retro styling at all. Very boring and disappointing. Not quite as embarrassing as the recent Pontiac GTO, but still not a retro Camaro, IMHO.........

I predict poor sales and limited collectibility. Contrast that to the overwhelming demand for the new Shelby GT 500.

GM designers are still missing the boat. I pity them.

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WELL SAID CHEVYSS !!!!!!!!

A lot of the replies here mention that this design won't last, and some even mention the thunderbird cancelled after 5 years. But didn't the original Camaro last only three years??? GM should do the same as they did 30 years ago, build this cool car but make a major restyle after a few years. There are plenty people that just need to have the newest thing, they will sell their (then old) Camaro and buy the new one! Just like 30 years ago....

A lot of the replies here mention that this design won't last, and some even mention the thunderbird cancelled after 5 years. But didn't the original Camaro last only three years??? GM should do the same as they did 30 years ago, build this cool car but make a major restyle after a few years. There are plenty people that just need to have the newest thing, they will sell their (then old) Camaro and buy the new one! Just like 30 years ago....

Good post, but I'd be nervous about any "major restyle". I mean, look at the 2nd Gen Camaro. No offense to any 2nd Gen owners, but that car is, well, errrr, not very aesthetically appealing.

RE: the recent Thunderbirds - the 2002-2005 "Retro Birds" were pretty darn cool cars, but they didn't have any "juice". The styling was too sedate and the biggest issue was NO POWER. Jeez, they needed something that would fry the tires. They almost did an SVT (Ford's "Special Vehicles Team") version, and that might have saved the Thunderbird..............

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Good post, but I'd be nervous about any "major restyle". I mean, look at the 2nd Gen Camaro. No offense to any 2nd Gen owners, but that car is, well, errrr, not very aesthetically appealing.

RE: the recent Thunderbirds - the 2002-2005 "Retro Birds" were pretty darn cool cars, but they didn't have any "juice". The styling was too sedate and the biggest issue was NO POWER. Jeez, they needed something that would fry the tires. They almost did an SVT (Ford's "Special Vehicles Team") version, and that might have saved the Thunderbird..............

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Agreed, the T-Bird was a nice car, but I think the biggest problem with it was it's lack of power. They didn't build any high performance versions of this car like the originals had.

To Infamous and and any other GM wigs reading this - just build it! Like a couple of other posts said, make different models. Stripper 6 cyl. to maybe some Z's,SS's. Get your younger generation buyers back in a Chevy they can afford. You are losing your future if you don't. As for me, make the car without a severely sloped 'A' pillar so I can get in and out without cracking my head!! I truly believe that is what killed 4th gen sales compared to the Mustang. You had all the engine power but comfort or a lack egress was lousy. The Vettes were more comfortable. IMO.

I just breezed through the thread, hope this was not already addressed:o I was watching a tv program today and they were talking about the new Camaro. The guy was speaking to lutz, i heard Lutz say the new Camaro was based on a 67. It looks more like a 69 to me. Anyones else?

If GM had any brains, when the last 2002 model rolled off the assembly line, they would have worked on a redesigned 2007 model to commend the 40th Anniversary of The Camaro. This is why Toyota is set to overtake GM as the #1 Automobile manufacturer possibly as soon as the end of this year. Sad!! Very Sad!!

Many have said the 4th Gen designed was ok at first, but after further review the 4th Gen car looked like a Geo Storm on steroids.

A 1967-1969 Camaro is very sexy. A 1970-1973 Z28 is sexy especially with the split bumper. A 1978-1981 Z28 looks cool. A 1982-1990 Z28 or IROC-Z (especially the 1989 IROC-Z) is a sexy car. The 4th gens looked better in 2000-2002 then they did in 1993 & 1994, but it was ho hum for the entire 4th gen design. That design got old & ugly by January 1997 and GM should have realized it!!

I agree with what the others have said. For 2009 they need to build a plain Jane stripped down 6 cyl to be used as a kid's first car. To a slightly more powerful V6 maybe for a college graduate to mild V8 to a Fire Breathing, Ground Shaing, Earth rattling, Mega Horsepower King Sized V8!!

GM Brass also should have put the 454 LS6 engine in a 1970 SS Camaro. They offered it in the Chevelle and the Corvette. If it was offered in the Camaro you could have been talking arguably about the baddest @$$ Muscle Car ever built. Everyone knows about the corporate ban on engines greater than 400 cubic inches in mid sized cars during the height of the muscle car era in the 1960's. Another GM bonehead move!!

I just breezed through the thread, hope this was not already addressed:o I was watching a tv program today and they were talking about the new Camaro. The guy was speaking to lutz, i heard Lutz say the new Camaro was based on a 67. It looks more like a 69 to me. Anyones else?

Maybe he mis-spoke?
Everything I've read or heard during interviews mentions the 69 or the first gen cars :D

Geeze at least GM is building a Camaro that has the potential to dominate the pony car market again. It is not perfect in terms of styling but it is heading in the right directions (1967-69 and 2008-). We will never see a split bumper car again.

You are never too old to want a Camaro. A Camaro next to a Nissan or a Cobalt? The problem becomes economics for GM andthat will kill anything.

I like it. The pic of the orange vert has been my desktop at work since it showed up here, and I like it more every day.

I owned a 69 RS hardtop from age 16 to 18. Custom paint, wheels, all that stuff. I sold it at 18 and bought a 68 RS convertible. I still have it and my son and I are rebuilding it for him to drive when he turns 16 next fall.

I don't know if the new Camaro is retro enough or not. I don't really care. You need to see it in person. I saw it at Daytona - stared at it, walked around it, took a really good look. It is what it is. I personally think that it looks like something from a cartoon. I won't buy it, but I bet the General will sell a boat load of them.

I owned a 69 RS hardtop from age 16 to 18. Custom paint, wheels, all that stuff. I sold it at 18 and bought a 68 RS convertible. I still have it and my son and I are rebuilding it for him to drive when he turns 16 next fall.

I don't know if the new Camaro is retro enough or not. I don't really care. You need to see it in person. I saw it at Daytona - stared at it, walked around it, took a really good look. It is what it is. I personally think that it looks like something from a cartoon. I won't buy it, but I bet the General will sell a boat load of them.

If this is the Camaro you saw at Daytona, it is from a movie based on a cartoon :D

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL432/652312/15027649/231234753.jpg

That is the one. Tone it down some and add a true RS package and maybe it will grow on me.

I am still betting they will sell as many as they can crank out.

I am really hoping for an RS front end as well.
For now, I'd be happy with a nice V8 convertible in my driveway :D

All my opinions lay with Infamous and OverAnxious. My thoughts exactly guys.