68 Big Block Camaro.. Real Big Block Car???? [Archive] - Team Camaro Tech

: 68 Big Block Camaro.. Real Big Block Car????


Bowtie Muscle
Aug 23rd, 06, 05:02 PM
A friend of mine just bought a 68 RS/SS Camaro with no motor. He was told it was originally a 396 Big Block Car. The car has some really cool options like power windows, console w/ gauges, front disc brakes etc. I was wondering if some of you can help him out w/ what to look for to make sure it was an original big block car... It does have the original trans which is a TH-400 (#'s match).
Also, I know w/ 69's build sheets are hit or miss, is it the same w/ 68 Camaros? Is there anywhere on the car that may have a build sheet? Any help is always appreciated.

mr396
Aug 23rd, 06, 05:17 PM
CRG has a lot of good info. this may help. Q: How do I recognize the differences between first-generation high-performance models?

A: Here are a few of the more distinguishing characteristics. There are many other clues, both positive and negative, that are better explained in the more recent CRG Visual ID HyperTables, one for each year: 1967, 1968, 1969.

All 67-69 big-block cars are Super Sports, except for COPO models or dealer-modified cars like Yenkos, Baldwin-Motions, Nickeys, Danas, etc.
A car that originally came with a big-block engine, even if the engine is absent, will often still have the original big-block heater box, which is distinctly different from that of the small block or L-6 engine. The big-block heater core inlet and outlet penetrate the cover, whereas the small-block cover is unpierced - with the inlet and outlet coming through the firewall adjacent to the inboard end of the cover.
All 67-68 original 350 engines were Super Sports.
Original 67-69 302 engines were only installed on Z28s.
Original Muncie and THM400 transmissions were installed only on performance models of various types (the THM400 was only applied to big-block cars).
All 1968-69 performance models have multi-leaf rear springs. The Z28 typically received 4-leaf springs and all models with 350ci or higher displacement engines (including the L65 350ci 2BC engine) typically received 5-leaf springs. The 1968 L30/M20 also received multi-leaf springs. Spring count was weight dependent, however, and it is possible for certain Z28s to have a 5-leaf spring, or for a L30/M20 or 350ci engined car to have a 4-leaf spring.
All 67-69 performance models, with two exceptions, have the 8.875 inch diameter rear axle (aka, the "12-bolt" axle). The first exception is the 1967 L30/M20 from model start until approximately Dec '66, which came standard with a 10-bolt axle. Also (though 12-bolt versions have been noted and we are still researching this) many '69 SS-350s with the Powerglide transmission were equipped with a 10-bolt axle. However, it was possible for any '69 Camaro with the L48 or LM1 engine that would have normally had a 10-bolt axle to be optionally provided with a 12-bolt rear axle. 12-bolt axles were also installed on any car with the 1969 JL8 4-wheel disc brakes.
All 1968-69 models with the rear brake proportioning valve in the line under the drivers side door, are performance models. However JL8 4-wheel disc brake models did not use this valve, and so absence of the valve, in the case of a JL8 axle, does not mean that the car is not a performance model. There are also reports of a few very early 1969 performance models that were built without these valves.
A car with original factory air conditioning cannot be either a Z28, a L78 SS, or a COPO car (GM did not apply A/C units to solid-lifter motors).

TClovis
Aug 23rd, 06, 06:30 PM
Check for original tire sticker and count the springs on the hood hinges. I believe 28 for original SS hood springs to account for the heavier hood ornamented hood.

Bgonz 69
Aug 23rd, 06, 06:38 PM
I believe 28 for original SS hood springs to account for the heavier hood ornamented hood.

Aint that funny. 28 coils for a SS and 26 for a Non SS. How many real SS's still have the original hood springs.http://www.camaros.net/forums/images/icons/icon5.gif


bob

Eric Kammerer
Aug 23rd, 06, 06:39 PM
If it has an original TH400 with a matching partial VIN, it was a big block car. No more research required. The TH400 only came behind a big block in a 1st gen.

jus4funn68
Aug 23rd, 06, 07:57 PM
heater hose location? going into the box or behind the valve cover?

Bowtie Muscle
Aug 24th, 06, 03:01 AM
Honestly, I haven't seen the car yet but will in the next week or so. I'll check some of these points and get back to the board. Sounds like the real deal w/ the 400 trans.
Any ideas on production numbers of a 68 RS/SS Big Block car????Also, since noone responded to the build sheet question, I take it he's not going to find one on a 68.
Thanks Again,
Mark

MichiganMan
Aug 24th, 06, 03:15 AM
If it has an original TH400 with a matching partial VIN, it was a big block car. No more research required. The TH400 only came behind a big block in a 1st gen.

Quite on the contrary..Post a pic of the trans stamp and vin tag whatever other #'s you may have.. My car has the THM400 also a big block big engine,block heater cover ...unfortunetly it was originally 327(fortunetly I was able to contact original owner who sent me pic's )..so I say keep on looking .

Eric Kammerer
Aug 24th, 06, 06:03 AM
Nothing really contrary about it...

For example, if the car VIN is 124378N3XXXXX, and the trans is stamped 8N3XXXXX, and the trans stamp is original, it was a BB car.

From the Nasty Z site: "On the THM400 the VIN is stamped on a machined surface just above the pan on the drivers side"

It (the TH400) could certainly be a restamp, but if someone had gone to that trouble I'd expect them to throw a retamped engine in too, and not sell it without an engine.

big mike
Aug 24th, 06, 03:17 PM
Aint that funny. 28 coils for a SS and 26 for a Non SS. How many real SS's still have the original hood springs.http://www.camaros.net/forums/images/icons/icon5.gif


bob

Mine does.

Brentmc
Aug 25th, 06, 03:54 AM
Aint that funny. 28 coils for a SS and 26 for a Non SS. How many real SS's still have the original hood springs.http://www.camaros.net/forums/images/icons/icon5.gif


bob

Mine still has the original springs...

phel69
Aug 25th, 06, 04:00 PM
Mine too

mr396
Aug 25th, 06, 05:35 PM
double post.

mr396
Aug 25th, 06, 05:47 PM
On the 1968 camaro TH400 it had a tag that would tell you the hp ratings. If the tag is still on it, it could tell you what engine was in it. If it has 68Cxxx it's for a L35 325 hp, 68Exxx L34 350 hp..... I just counted the coils on my 68 bb hood and I come up with 29 coils.

TClovis
Aug 25th, 06, 10:18 PM
Uh, add me to that list. Original bigger hood springs that is. I thought they were 28 but I guess 29's a possibility.

mr396
Aug 26th, 06, 10:55 AM
My bad. recounted the coils looks like 28. http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a180/mr396/MVC-038F-1.jpg

RJBaileyrn
Aug 26th, 06, 06:26 PM
Mr 396, good info there. I have a 69 coupe, original engine missing, hidden headlights and all the RS trim around windows and wheel wells,the car in a 12 bolt rear, 28 coil hood springs, small black heater cover, proportioning valve on driver's side, has the little rectangular plate with two holes on left rear frame rail for dual exhaust hanger, Muncie 4-speed(original with partial VIN), front discs, Built 2nd week in October, so no X-body info, just trim and ext colors. No build sheet or P.O.P anymore. My question, is there any other ways to prove or disprove if this car was a true RS or SS. I still am confused about the whole thing.
RJ

Rarerat
Aug 26th, 06, 07:13 PM
Aint that funny. 28 coils for a SS and 26 for a Non SS. How many real SS's still have the original hood springs.http://www.camaros.net/forums/images/icons/icon5.gif


bob


My 68 SS/RS 396 still has the original hood springs as well

Unreal
Aug 26th, 06, 08:14 PM
Or more likely, how many cowl hoods using 28 coil springs?

ironcross
Aug 26th, 06, 08:35 PM
Mr 396, good info there. I have a 69 coupe, original engine missing, hidden headlights and all the RS trim around windows and wheel wells,the car in a 12 bolt rear, 28 coil hood springs, small black heater cover, proportioning valve on driver's side, has the little rectangular plate with two holes on left rear frame rail for dual exhaust hanger, Muncie 4-speed(original with partial VIN), front discs, Built 2nd week in October, so no X-body info, just trim and ext colors. No build sheet or P.O.P anymore. My question, is there any other ways to prove or disprove if this car was a true RS or SS. I still am confused about the whole thing.
RJ

If the car was a original BB 396 Camaro it would automatically have the SS badges as the dominate features inside ad outside. The RS lighting option was merely a add on to the SS cars or actually to any other Camaro. If it has RS badging, gas cap, in the grill or other external trim RS badges it would not be an original BB Camaro. Those are dead give a way features. :)

mr396
Aug 26th, 06, 11:12 PM
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.I think In 68 you couldn't order the M21 or M22 with a small block except Z/28. So if its the same for 69, and you have an M21 or M22 with the partial vin. It could prove something. but without the original engine and no paper work It's going to be hard to prove.Sounds like you have a nice camaro.

big mike
Aug 27th, 06, 06:38 AM
http://www.camaros.org/diffs68.shtml According to CRG, M22 was only available with a 302 or a 375hp 396.

elcamino72
Aug 27th, 06, 07:35 AM
I agree, what I've read, the M22 was only availibe on the Z/28 or the 396cu engine option. Of course, I believe it was also availible behind the 427's but that is a different animal all together.

Bgonz 69
Aug 27th, 06, 08:01 AM
Uh, add me to that list. Original bigger hood springs that is. I thought they were 28 but I guess 29's a possibility.


Two more than the standard ones,Thats all we need to know :thumbsup:


Mine has them too :hurray:

bob

click
Aug 27th, 06, 08:03 AM
A clarification on RS... in 69 there was not a gas cap RS, it was hidden behind the license plate. Other RS features to look for are holes in the rear trunk next to the bumper braces where back up light wires go thru a rubber grommet, one on each side. Below the bumper are the backup lights. Original panel there was stamped out at the factory. If it was in a wreck, or an RS clone, and the lower panel replaced, someone would have to hacksaw out those holes, they didnt have RS panels for replacement.

csn69ss
Aug 27th, 06, 09:22 PM
No M21 or M22 in smallblock 69's available, except the Z/28.

My 69 SS has the 28 coil hood springs too.

Would it be the same for the cowl induction hood?

RamAirDave
Aug 27th, 06, 09:52 PM
Other RS features to look for are holes in the rear trunk next to the bumper braces where back up light wires go thru a rubber grommet, one on each side.replacement.

The cut-outs in the trunk braces are not RS specific. We've gone over this several times before, werent you paying attention, Jim? :D


dave

click
Aug 28th, 06, 07:13 AM
True Dave but if it has all the RS stuff, then those wires and rubber grommets would be there, just making sure he sees all the little stuff if its still there :)