Which is best to do full quarters or skins? I just have rust in the fender wells and near lower tail pan. I have been told by most body men that if i was going to keep the car to put full quarters in.

I'm not a body person but I have heard to different approaches. First do full quarters and secondly, only repalce the metal that you need to. I'm going with then 80% quaters on mine for the passengar side and just patch a section on the drivers side.

Skins are never a option, even if you are selling they will kill the value. Unless the repair area is very small, full is the way to go

My ’67 needs new quarters—bad rust around the fender lip. I’m taking it to a good body guy. He wanted full quarters because they easier to install. He’s tried patch panels, 80% quarters and full. He said you get the best results with full quarters and it takes him less time to install them. He cuts at the bottom of the sail panel. He recently did another ’67 and had to slice, add and shape to get quarters to line up with the tail pan. He said it’s a pain working with overseas panels but their still easier to install than partial quarters. He said it’s about 8-hours of work to install a full quarter.

I would have to say a full quarter since you're holding on to the car for the long haul. I did just the skins because that's all we could afford at the time but once I have enough money, I want to go back and do everything correct. My vote is for full quarters.

Full quarters are great, but it doesnt seem like you have a lot of rust, have you ever considered using the patch panels like these:

http://www.elmores.com/bob/68camaro/pictures/PatchPanels.jpg

that way you can keep as much origanal metal as possible, but if you dont want to go that route and becasue you are going to pay a body guy to do the work then your better off going with the full quarters because they should be the same cost as to do the skins, and you get more from them.

Why are skins a NO-No, Prodigy? A properly installed skin of good quality would not even be noticable to all but the most professional eye.

This hobby is dominated by "little" guys who have limited funds. I feel that a statement such as you made will dampen thier enthusiasm. Not everyone can restore a car like it was a Leno owned COPO.

I'm doing a 67 ragtop with very little rust around the wheelwells.I'm seriously considering skins because the repop full conv quarters are junk and expensive. :clonk: If i skin it i dont have to worry about crappy gaps and ugly jambs. As far as value......It might hurt a high end resto,but the average guy doesnt even know the difference. On any skin job i've ever done i've given the seam in the trunk a swipe of filler and you cant tell anyways.;)


bob

Skins aren't a no-no by any means. It comes down to the person that needs it if they can afford it or not because they are expensive as heck. If I could've afforded it when it was time to decide between skins or full quarters, I would've chosen the full but I couldn't afford them so I wound up getting the skins. There's nothing wrong with skins.

I think that there are skins,and there are skins,meaning that if you decide against full quarters,the 80% versions are the way to go. They offer much more coverage than a typical skin,yet they do away with the need of fooling with the sailpanel area. Its a much nicer panel IMO, and not a whole lot more $ than your everyday skin. Also much less than a full quarter- $129 versus $350 plus (except through us of course! ;) )

Why are skins a NO-No, Prodigy? A properly installed skin of good quality would not even be noticable to all but the most professional eye.

This hobby is dominated by "little" guys who have limited funds. I feel that a statement such as you made will dampen thier enthusiasm. Not everyone can restore a car like it was a Leno owned COPO.

Very simple, nothing is worse then a six foot seem of mud down the side of the car. The time invested, and the filler invested in making a skin a good looking panel, including the time spent inside the trunk finishing the horrible seem, only to have a half a$$ job, could be better spent on a full panel. I understand budget restraints. Not all our projects are 6 figure builds, only the ones that get the most attention. We deal with customer budgets everyday. But this IS NOT a area to skim or cheat. You would be much better served waiting until the money accumulates and buying full panels, or skimming on that intake and carb set up (example) which could easily be bolted on later. The quarters are HOURS and HOURS and hundreds and hundreds of rework dollars that will only have to be redone. The intake (example) can be swapped in a afternoon.

I never try to dampen enthusiasm, quite contraire. I come on these boards and offer real world advice that many other experts hold close to their chest. I am sorry if it offends you, but 27 years has taught me a lot, and skins are not the way to go. Also, please read, I did very much say patches are fine if rust is not major. By no means am I saying all cars need panels.

Prodigy, I can't argue with what you said, but it does not quite fit MY comments.

If your recall I said " A properly installed skin of good quality", that means a good butt weld the length of the qtr. Done properly, there will be very little mud. No more than a skim coat.

If you wanted to debate the cost effectiveness of that method in your shop, I would not argue. Your shop has it own cost structure and methods and in your case that could make the savings of a skin over the full qtr negligible.

We are not discussing your shop. We are looking at the general feasibility of using skins over full qtrs. I have to stand by my previous statement.

Remember, "Properly Insatalled"...Hack jobs are always a possibility. As a matter of fact I have seen DIYers destroy the roof drip rail getting the factory panel loose for a full qtr install.


Have a Good Day

Larry

Larry,

You sound like you are a real craftsman. Typically Joe Q Public in his garage is not capable of producing a 6 foot butt weld that does not warp the doo doo out of a panel thus requiring a gallon of bondo. So most times the do it yourselfer does a lap joint of a step joint, warps the heck out of it and uses 1.5 gallons on bondo, LOL! So again, I still feel it is a no no for a do it yourselfer. Now to have a pro do it, and do it right, I can assure you the labor is much higher to properly butt weld a skin and do finish body work then a full quarter, and then you are still left with a 6 foot skim coat. So it is not uncommon for a shop to do a lap joint, and do it as cheap or cheaper labor wise then a full panel, but then you have garbage. I just cleaned up one of these messes.

I just think we are talking about the heart and sole of the car here. Were not even talking about patching up a bolt on fender. This is the body shell. And we are taking about the possibility if doing a paint job that can last a lifetime, versues a almost certain redo weather it be in 3 or 10 years. hen you weight the cost difference of just maybe $600 dollars for the pair of panels, it seems cheap. To save $600 now and face the possibility of spending $1000s later to redo seems wrong. And in the scope of things, surely there are other areas, less difficult and less expensive to redo then can be skimped on if the budget is tight.

I recently bought a set of Goodmark quarters for my 69,and they will need a swipe of polyester filler or a couple good prime/block jobs to get them straight enough for me.They have a cute little rippley thing going on all the way down the sides.:clonk:.....THERE WAVEY AS $%#@ !!!!. And i know the Goodmark rear body panel doesnt have a prayer of fitting the full quarters without serious surgery :angry: GM full quarters/parts are the way to go,But who can afford them anymore and the repops suck. So.................Sometimes skins aint so bad. :thumbsup:

bob

Its a major turn-off anytime i go to look at a camaro and find out that it has "skins" installed, also a bigtime price decrease, the first thing i do is open the trunk and look/feel to see if it has "skins" installed.

Its a major turn-off anytime i go to look at a camaro and find out that it has "skins" installed, also a bigtime price decrease, the first thing i do is open the trunk and look/feel to see if it has "skins" installed.

Rivets sticking through,Bondo through unwelded holes,3" overlaps,welded with an arc welder,more rivets,a screw or two, I agree,TOTALLY HORRIBLE.

But what if you couldnt tell :thumbsup:


bob

I agree with ProdigyCustoms about the full quarter route. Wait as long as you have to and buy full quarters. I have seen people patch small sections behind the wheelwell and then pay thousands for a paint job only to have a new rust spot appear in the front side a while later. Peace of mind is worth a lot. What a sick feeling after all that work and money spent. Do it right the first time and be finished!

Bob, I have the stuff for those quarter ripples. Do not swipe them. I have a high ebd polyester that is good to 50 mils and blocks like butter. Block it with 150, and then if you have a extra low area, you can respray or add polyester putty. One litre does a panel, $38 per litre is cheap for how good a job it does and how durable it is. We just did a 55 Chevy that had hail damage, and sprayed the entire car after dolly and filling the low spots. Fricken awesome!

Bob, I have the stuff for those quarter ripples. Do not swipe them. I have a high ebd polyester that is good to 50 mils and blocks like butter.


BLOCKS LIKE BUTTER........I love the way that sounds. Whats it called??? I'm always up for a better way. I've tried a couple of those high build sprayable polyester products and they either sand like concrete or wont spray out of a gun with a sewer size tip. :clonk:


thanks


bob

It is a product from MIPA. We are just finishing a internet distribution agreement and getting our haz mat license for shipping. I am not allowed to rell you it is the same a Standox, but I can tell you that if you have 2 litres side by side, they are identical in everyway including smell, weight, viscosity, and taste (OK, you will have to taste for yourself) but I have been spraying both for quite a while. They sand the same, dry the same. They say youcan get on it in 6 hours, but this is a product the more it drys, the better it sands. The european sub manufacturers are horrible about private labeling name brand products and whoring them out, but I am not allowed to say I think that is what happens here. But for 60% of the cost of Standox, I use the MIPA.

It does require a 2.2 tip or larger, I use a 2.5 and spray one litre on a panel, and the entire litre on in 3 coats! I will get a demo litre to Tom, I will use the puppy dog method of sending you one and seeing if you can live without it.

I am looking for cheapo guns I can offer to spray it with, I use a SATA LM 2000 right now, but a bit pricey at $200+.

The PE Filler takes the place of high build primer in our shop and primer is more of a sealer and final sand coat for us, so cost for the PE Filler takes the place of one of the primer coats. And durabilty is incredible.

[quote=ProdigyCustoms;632212] I will get a demo litre to Tom, I will use the puppy dog method of sending you one and seeing if you can live without it.


Frank....... YOU DA MAN :hurray:Sounds like i may not be able to live without it !!!! I look foward to trying it.I have a old Iwata gun that can spray tar if i had too !!!! Thanks much.


bob

What brand of full quarters would people with experience recommend?
The best body man here in our little northern CA town finally has time to do them. I have been on hold for a LONG time. I see GM mentioned sometimes, are these originals, reproductions or what?
18 months and counting but 12 of down time.

Rick (68)

OER makes the 69 quarters and they are in CA so shipping wont be as bad. If you have a 67 or 68 search other dicussions here.

I also agree with Frank. Full quarters are always better then skins. Panels should be replace as the factory installed them at the spot welds. We went as far as purchasing state of the art spot welders for the purpose of copying the factory welds so it would appear the panels was never removed and replaced. We then go one step further and count the factory spot welds as we remove the panel and when the new panel is in place, put the same number of spot welds back.
Sal
American Muscle Cars Inc
www.americanmusclecars.net

Bob

Are your full qtr panels OER GM restoration parts?

Thank You
RicheyG

I too agree with Frank.

Yes, the initial cost of a skin/80% is much lower, but after the time/labor it takes to install them well youre not much ahead, if at all. I would much prefer to have the welds in the less conspicous areas rather than right on the flat part of the panel itself which will need a decent amount of body work no matter how nice the weld is.

We are now 1/4ing a 69 with OER fulls. They dont exactly just fall into place (cant expect them to), but they fit pretty well for a repo.

OK here's my 2 cents. Don't install full quarters unless you need too. The repo stuff requires a lot of work even if you know what you are doing. I've just had two quarters, boot floot and the rear parcel shelf panel replaced and we are close to 100 hours!!! The job is really really good but only because the guy doing it is a perfectionist and spent so long getting them right. There was a heap of work to do this.

If patches will do the job use them. Remember once you unstitch original panels the car is NEVER the same. We've even spot welded the quarters but it's still not as neat at my original, rusty, unbent panels were.

My 2c

I bought 80% 1/4's. I don't know if it's just me, or if the body line curves at the top are as sharp as the originals. This is on a '67. So I was thinking of turning them into skins. These are GoodMark. Any opinions of these stampings would be great from any one with experience wtih them.

Sorry if I am hi-jcking the thread.