First of all, thanks for having me in the forum, I've been reading and using the info for months now, and finally registered a username. I'm sure you'll see me around alot, as I've got ALOT of questions, doing my first frame-off resto, on my 67 camaro project car. After sandblasting, priming, painting, and undercoating everything I was reusing and replacing everything that was junk (floors, bushing, all hard lines, etc etc) I've got the cleaned up subframe put in, all new poly bushing pressed in, control arms in, ball joints, springs will be put in as soon as they arrive. Rear springs are mocked up, simply waiting for axles and new u-bolts for the nodular 9'' under it before I tie it all together for good. I've set the motor in (383 stroker roller motor) and realized I had to replace my mechanical fuel pump which was hitting on the frame. I decided to upgrade to a holley "blue" electric pump, I've got 15 foot of braided hose, a regulator, and a gauge. I'm itching to fire the motor, and am ready to plumb the fuel system. I took out the original tank as it was basically junk, I figured I'd buy a new tank. After upgrading all the lines/pump I'd hate to not be able to get enough fuel to them for it to make a diffrence. Will I have problems with fuel starvation using a repro stock tank? Im not against a fuel cell, but I like the idea of having a trunk to throw some spares in, and since it will be a street/strip vehicle, I need a min. of 15 gallon cell, and also a fuel gauge. This part of the build has got me stumped, I have no idea what will work with what. After this hurdle, getting power to the motor will be next, me and electricity butt heads quite a bit :clonk:. I'm looking forward to when these two problems are solved, as I think I've got the majority of the rest figured out. This project has been a few years in the making, and I'm finally starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel-and its a good feeling. Any advice from people who know,or have does this themselves would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

You can have a stock appearing tank in the stock location that is actually a foam filled, and baffled safety fuel cell. I have seen two articles in the car rags over time about companies that make them. I would recommend a web search based upon steel tank fuel cell or something to narrow your search.


Larger Dave

another option many have done is have a rear sump welded into a new repro tank. Keep the original sender in place and plumb your braid into the sump

Welcome to TC. Reading your post I did not understand if your car was going to be a strip car or street cruiser. Being that I will add .02 cents here. I have my orginal tank in place as well as the 3/8's fuel line. I was using the stock fuel pump until I lost a lobe off the hydra roller cam so I went to the electric 4594 carter that keeps me supplied for normal and madman useage. I had no problems with the hi volume AC mechanical pump but I did have clearance issues as you mentioned. I realized I had the wrong engine mount on one side.

As for the Carter electric, I mounted it in the rt rear corner above the leaf spring. I did use a relay setup for this. I have 6-8 psi and will flow 100gph and thats more fuel than your motor will need for with driver like me. Stock hi/po Gm pumps put out about 30 gph. Hope this helps.

:hurray: Wow, thanks for the quick replies!

My main concern with a stock tank and welding in a sump was, will the sending unit be able to push enough fuel, and will the tanks fuel line be large enough diameter. I understand Im not making much sense, this is the area that has got me stumped. Where the fuel lines from the car, attach to the gas tank, is that a large enough diameter (my new lines are 3/8ths I believe).

I'm guessing it will be (since big blocks had the larger lines, and as far as I can tell, all the repro tanks are similar...I see no distinction for small block and big block tanks) but I was hesitant to jump into something I knew nothing about without some educated advice.

And Zdld17-my plans for the car originally called for a daily driver. The farther I get into it, it gets closer to being mainly a strip car, with occasional street use. I would only drive it less than a mile or two to work and back a day, no highway driving...so it COULD still be a daily driver, we will see how it works out when its all completed. I have no plans for the trunk, aside from wanting to throw a pair of mounted slicks in the back so I can drive it on radial tires on the street, and mount these up at the track. The car will be caged, so I am losing my back seat, and I suppose I could throw them there, but I would prefer the trunk. I'm going to check into it a bit more now that I know what to search for, thanks guys!

ETA- JimM, I noticed you will be meeting in Cordova soon. I have lots of family that races up their every weekend, and I try to make it up every few weekends when the parts pile has depleted and I'm waiting on more. Maybe I'll see you there, and nice looking car you've got in the link.

3/8's fuel lines are the largest available on a factor first gen. If you were worried about fuel supply , you could change to some 8 or 10 AN bulkhead fittings on your sump that you were adding? If you do this you can still keep your tank sender, plug he line. My understanding was that you were getting a new stock tank made? If so you could still use your hardware and hook new lines to sump. I already said that .

Ok, my appologies, I was confused about where the lines hooked in the tank if I added a sump. I didnt get it quite figured out until I went to the shed, pulled out the old tank, and looked up pics of in-tank fuel sumps. I think I've got it now, thank you.

At the moment, im leaning toward a sump in a new repro tank as mentioned. How difficult is it to install a new sump in a tank not designed for them? Do I simply cut a hole in the portion of the tank I will install the sump in, the size of the sump, place it in, and weld it in hanging down off the bottom of where the stock tank would of been, and then seal around the sump with some sort of tank sealing stuff to prevent any leaks?

I have a cheap mig welder at home, but have access to a nice mig welder for jobs that require more penetration and consistent beads. Is this something I can do myself, or is it best left to be done by a professional? So far this entire project has been me and my father doing all the labor, when we stumble upon something that has stumped both of us, we eventually learned and was able to do everything with some extra time and effort. I'd prefer to continue doing it ourselves, if possible.

Would you recommend the use of fuel cell foam in the tank, even with the sump?

If I decide to go fuel cell later, I have been told that if using a fuel cell in the trunk, you must make an approved firewall in the trunk area in case of fire to make the sanctioning bodies happy. Is this correct? I've been searching through the rules, but cant find any specifics. Does anyone with a fuel cell back there have any first hand knowledge?

I bought a used fuel system set including: fuel pump, regulator, relays, 17 foot of -8 an braided steel hose, two straight an fittings and some other odds and ends. Neither me or my father has any experience with electric fuel pumps or needing increased fuel line size. The stock fuel lines and tank are junk, what was left of them wasnt much. He is wondering if I can convert a repro tank to simply accept my larger braided lines and AN fittings, without cutting a hole in it to add a sump. I dont expect my 383 is realistically making over 415 hp at the flywheel with its current heads (wp s/r torquers). When the car is on the road and I can start saving up a bit more for the *extras* I plan on upgrading the heads to some aluminum Canfields. I would presume this would give me a pretty healthy addition of hp. I dont know if hp numbers matter when determining fuel line requirements or not.

I appreciate all the opions thus far, learning quite a bit and am beginning to understand what everyone is talking about after doing my own research for the past few hours. Thats the important part for me, learning, so I understand what I'm doing, instead of being told "do this" without knowing what the reasoning for doing "that" was. Thanks guys :)

To feed 400, or even 500 HP, the stock 3/8 size is adequate.

As foir the sump thing, I've never done it, but believe there are company's that sell the premade, you just set it on the bottom of the tank, scripe a line, cut the hole, and weld it in.

I'm sure we'll hear some real info from someone who has done it before too long, maybe even a picture?

This is what I assumed also for installation, but if thats the route I go, would like to be 100% before I cut into a new tank. I've seen a few custom tanks with sumps and baffles that will mount under the car, and look extremely trick, but I'm on a budget, and my concerns are simply getting fuel to the motor consistently, I cant afford to spend 800 on a gas tank. Thanks for the suggestion ;) I've searched for info on how to put them in, but can find no sites that give specific details. The pictures I've found look straight-forward enough.

there's guys running low 11's on a stock fuel pickup, you may have a non-issue here if your budget is tight.

As Jim indicated a the 400-500hp level a 3/8" should do the job fine. Although I am no expert on this subject and this is my first fuel system upgrade I will share how I did mine. I choose to do my fuel system once so that it is ready for any future increase above my current motors estimated 490hp. Competition Engineering manufactures a weld on sump that is available through Summit for $62(CEE-4040 w/ 3/8" npt fittings or CEE-4041 w/ 1/2" npt). I actually used CE's dimensions and had a local fab shop make me one out of 16ga sheet and then had my brother-in-law(pipe fitter by trade) TIG weld it to my original stock tank. I would highly recommend TIG versus MIG welding, easier to control the heat when welding on thin metal like a gas tank and produces a much nicer appearing weld. If using an existing tank that had gas in it I would also recommend having a professional clean it and weld it for you due to the high potential for an explosion. After several cleanings with soap and water we used an argon purge to eliminate any possibly of an explosion and it turned out very nice with no issues. In additiona to displacing the gas fumes argon purge also shields the weld zone inside the tank. There are other ways but this is the safest and best in my opinion. CE also has installtion instructions on their website with a template showing where to drill the holes in the tank. These holes act somewhat like a baffle as well. From the sump I have an in-line filter then to a short piece of -8 braided line up to the frame over the rear axle. from there it is 1/2" OD solid aluminum tube up to the front subframe even with the front of the motor and then another short loop of -8 braided line to the Carter 172gph mechanical pump. Although might be a bit of an overkill at my horsepower level it works well and I won't need to change it in the future when I need more, and we all know that will happen without question!

Tom

I wouldnt necessarilly say my budget is tight, but more I need to spend it wisely. I would love to spend 800 on a beautiful custom fabbed tank, but that is money that would be better spent on new headers and an exhaust system, or something else (theres always a something else I've learned,lol). Once I set the motor in, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel somewhat and went to the bank to take out a loan so I didnt have to wait paycheck to paycheck to order new parts. It wont get the car to where I eventually want it, but it should get me on the road if I dont get too excited. I think I've got enough ideas on this fuel system that I should be able to work something. I think I will make some calls tomarrow and see who will do some tig welding for me, and what its going to run. I will be using a new tank, for the price of boiling/cleaning my old one, I'd probably spend more fixing the old one than buying new. Although I would love to mig weld it by myself, I went and looked at the metal in the old tank,and I agree, tig is probably the way to go. I'll see who can do it for me and what they will quote.

I appreciate all the input so far, thanks for the ideas/explanations guys!

ETA-bowtie, what is the purpose of the 1/2'' solid aluminum line under the car instead of braided as you went with elsewhere? Simply cost, or is braided not sufficient under the car or another reason? I bought about 17 foot of braided with intentions of running it from the tank to the pump, and from the regulator to the carb at least. I'll keep braided in the engine bay at least, LOL!

apb - Really nothing wrong with running braided all the way from front to back but. I choose to go with hard line under the car simply because it yeilds a more professional appearance when done, it is cheaper compared to braided but not after you add in the additional fittings needed to convert from the braided to the hardline and back. I used the short sections of braided front and rear because the movement of the motor in the front will cause with fittings to continuously come loose and the potential for cracking the hardline front constant flexing. In the rear it allows me to easily change the fuel filter I have right at the sump. If you have the braided I would say use it, I don't know of any reason not too. Maybe someone else chime in here that has more experience than I.

Tom

Thanks Tom :)

New repro tank, trunk floor supports, the gas tank straps, and anti-squeak kit all should be here Friday.

Sump from Summit-Tomarrow :D