Interesting Z. Real TT?

http://americanstreetmachines.com/xCars/Street-Machine-of-the-Week/Classic-Chevrolet-1969-Camaro-Z28-For-Sale/Id/1/1969-Camaro-Z28/ProdId/478/LId/0/2296069-CAM572478%20102.jpg

It appears that the VIN (572478) and build date (01A) match the block casting date (L308) and use of this rare/unknown (according to BTN’s) 2388 block. If I read the casting number and casting date right, this is a 4-bolt main block used in the 69 290 HP/302 & 300 HP/350.

BTN’s indicates at least (2) Z28’s and (4) SS 350’s had this engine. BTN’s indicate that most of the 2388’s are dated Sept to Dec 1968

Wrong Color, Wrong MC, shock mounts, date code wrong on axle, and who know what else may be wrong.

The 388 block is not rare, in fact it's pretty common.

That sure looks pieced together. Wrong axle, wrong seatbelt, no pad pic, block VIN is ??, etc.

Here's the tag:
http://americanstreetmachines.com/american1000/image_protect.php?f=/large/2291869-CAM572478%20002.jpg

The 388 block is not rare, in fact it's pretty common.

That sure looks pieced together. Wrong axle, wrong seatbelt, no pad pic, block VIN is ??, etc.

Here's the tag:
http://americanstreetmachines.com/american1000/image_protect.php?f=/large/2291869-CAM572478%20002.jpg

Is this block common in the 302? There was a pic of the block vin stamping which "matched" the dash VIN. Is the TT legit?

Therre is nothing wrong with the trim tag.

Typically the 388 block was used in trucks.
Now that being said - it has been documented that they were also used in Z/28's. and SS-350's.

However, when I see a 388 block in a Camaro, it sets off a red flag for me, and
I need to look at everything MUCH closer.

So check your p's and q's before you buy.
It is an easy to find block from a truck, if you "need to get one quick" ;)

388's are somewhat common in 69 Camaros, although still a minority. I have actually seen 2 in 350 Pacecars, 1 in a 350 4 speed SS, and I have my matching numbers original SS350 block that is a 388, 4 speed.
It is sometimes called the "Pacecar Block", since they are seen in some 350 Pace cars. They are known to be in Z/28s, although rarly. No one knows why they were used, but all the cars I've seen all have ZL2 and or/4speed. The blocks seem to be "batch cast" around Dec thru early January
These Camaro blocks are 4 bolt main. I have seen one in my friend's 69 Chevelle 350 that was a 2 bolt block.

my 11D build SS350 has a 388 block with a casting date of K13 8 and a build date of 11-14
It's numbers matching and a 4 bolt main.

I Have an 03C standard camaro with a 388 cast B22 9 stamped T0301HD with a 2 bolt main.

I just said it was less common.
So look for other indicators to be sure.

Just about everytime I found that block in a Camaro, it turned out to be a restamp.
I am sure they are out there, but I have never actually seen a real one.
A 386, 618, or 010, always makes me feel better.

When I see a 388, I look at everything else twice.
But I must admit, I have only seen these in cars that were for sale.

The car has air conditioning vents, which Z/28's didn't have.
Brian

looks like they added "Vintage Air".......explaining the vents.

388 is a VERY common block in Pace Cars and other cars across the Chevrolet line. Almost every PC block I have seen was a 388 block.

My matching numbers 69 SS 350 02C has a 4-bolt main 3932388 cast date A 7 9.

http://www.69pace.com/1969ss/blockcasting.JPG

http://www.69pace.com/1969ss/blockcastdate.JPG

My 02B L65 match numbers engine is also a 388 block

My matching numbers 69 SS 350 02C has a 4-bolt main 3932388 cast date A 7 9.

My 02B L65 match numbers engine is also a 388 block

Can I see the stamp pads?
That would make me a true believer.

email if it is easier. :thumbsup:

the ...388 block has turned out to be much more common than the CBN book states, its way outdated. I see ...388 blocks on ebay cars alot, a good share of the Pace Cars Ive seen have that block. My LM1 and alot of the other LM1's Ive come across have the ...388 block. Mine has 4 bolt mains - 10D build of 68. CRG has some info. on their site as well. Correspondence with Chev a few years ago asking about the difference between the ...388 and ...386 blocks, they said they could find no special changes in the block in design or performance features. Some have guessed maybe a few more holes for accessories and such. Try searching the 3932388 number in here and in www.camaros.org and it becomes more common that most think. It no longer is considered RARE as once thought and CBN needs to update in their next print. :)

388 is a VERY common block in Pace Cars and other cars across the Chevrolet line. Almost every PC block I have seen was a 388 block.

Just to confuse things.....My #'s matching Pace Car has a 618 casting in it. :)

I have a 388 4 bolt block in my basement taking up space. It's cast date is C-10-9 and the build date reads TO313HB so they must have been used into March or early April?

Pacecarjeff

Pictures of a 388 block cast Feb 6 69 with build date T0221HB that went into a 02D IPC. You will note that this block was decked but the machinist did not touch the deck pad. Notice the factory broach marks on the pad and the circular marks on the deck. The partial Vin is down by the oil filter.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/483868/629405/191740951.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/483868/629405/191740948.jpg

I am not saying that the 388 block wasn't used for 350-300 HP applications.
It was widly used for them -- in trucks.
I just get worried when I find it in a Camaro.

Is there a VIN stamp on this block?
Are you sure this is "the original" engine for this Camaro?
Is the deck height lower than your pad?

The picture is not clear enough for me to see the broach marks, and absolutly confirm the suffix stamping.
But I am sure many of these 388's got into Camaros.

Maybe I am just an old coot, but when I see a 388, I take notice.

:beers:

Was at a junk yard for 5 hours this morning stripping a 67 Firebird convt, 69 Eldorado, 64 Fleetwood.
Lots-o-fun. :) Found original spiral shocks for my 67 Camaro.

The partial Vin is stamped down by the oil filter/bell housing and it matches the car Vin. The deck height is lower than the pad. When I took the engine in for a rebuild I told the machinist that if the block was going to be decked that it was important not to cut the deck pad and remove the numbers. You should have seen the look on his face, WTF. So he got as close as he could with the machine and did the rest by hand.

Sounds correct to me.
Yes those machine shop guys think you are crazy when you ask that.

Some won't do it - you are lucky you found one who would. :thumbsup:

Jeff as I mentioned, the ...388 was used in alot of LM1's which are 255hp engines from both Norwood and LA built cars. They are more popular than everyone USED to think. Seems also alot of those ...388 blocks had the partial vin on the oil filter pad area, which makes them hard to read if not out of the car too.

Can I see the stamp pads?
That would make me a true believer.

email if it is easier. :thumbsup:

Mine has the VIN number on the pad, see pictures below - it happends to be a factory misstamp VIN is L523974, but engine and transmission is stamped 553974 - it has been discussed on this site earlier.

http://www.69pace.com/images/T0109HA.JPG


http://www.69pace.com/1969ss/19L553xxxT0109HA.jpg

I don't have any pad pics on my L65 yet, I will get some by the end of this month.

Jeff,
I've seen many original 388 blocks in Camaros, pretty common.

Those all look just right.
Seems they are much more common then I thought.

I guess I had bad luck. I looked at a lot of "for sale" cars for a while.
Saw a lot of restamped blocks out there....
I suppose I could say all the 386's and 010's I saw were restamped too. ;)

Thanks for the pictures. :thumbsup:

hello all...newbie here...i have a motor the casting code is 3932388..on the back...and the # on the front is f1109hy..i think f means flint then the date code...but i dont know what the hy stands for??anybody know.?? thanks for any help...what it came out of??..year??

Joe,

"HY" is a Corvette 350/300 engine with a manual transmission and a Rochester 4bbl.

It was the base (standard) engine on the Vette in 69.

Ed

thanks for the reply...so the 3932388 engine was used in the camaro and the corvette??

ok..iv been searching for bout 2 hours now your right hy does stand for vette,,,but why am i getting camaro #s for the casting code and vette #s for the suffix code is it possible they put the 3932388 in any corvetts??..fluke maybe??

No fluke. The 388 casting is more common than previously thought and was used throughout the Chevrolet line.

Ed

thanks for the info ed....i aquired this engine along with some internal goodies .done some engine work for a friend recieved the engine for payment,,,lol..better than chicken or apples...i guess..the motor had a fresh rebuild.. pistons stamped 30 over..im guessing ring end gap to close..popped a hole in top of #3 piston..no other damage..does it subtract value from an engine to bore it??

This one is a 302 c 20 9. I thought it was a one of two or three from BTN's too until I was enlightened here and saw there seemed to be a lot of them.

I asked the seller this:

how hard was the front end hit?

the grille is not painted indicating a front end accident to my eyes

My 388 block in my '69 350/300 is dated K13 8
Here are some shots and the pad stamp

hello all...newbie here...i have a motor the casting code is 3932388..on the back...and the # on the front is f1109hy..i think f means flint then the date code...but i dont know what the hy stands for??anybody know.?? thanks for any help...what it came out of??..year??

Are you sure the stamp prefix is "F"? Flint V-8 stopped using the "F" prefix in July, 1966 - after that all Flint V-8's used the "V" prefix. :thumbsup:

ok..iv been searching for bout 2 hours now your right hy does stand for vette,,,but why am i getting camaro #s for the casting code and vette #s for the suffix code is it possible they put the 3932388 in any corvetts??..fluke maybe??

Production usage of the 388 block has never been documented in a '69 Corvette; the "HY"-code 350/300's used the 386 in early cars, the 6618 in mid-season cars, and the 010 in later cars.

:beers:

Sorry guys. I was going by THIS SITE (http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c3/1969/69id.html) for the Corvette application.

Joe (jab677), can you post a picture of the pad stamping and take a look at the casting date on the block?

Ed

http://www.camaros.net/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=16157&cat=8

Production usage of the 388 block has never been documented in a '69 Corvette; the "HY"-code 350/300's used the 386 in early cars, the 6618 in mid-season cars, and the 010 in later cars.

:beers:

Really? For being as common as they are in Camaros and other models, I'm surprised they haven't been found in Corvettes.
I don't think the engine plants would be able to segregate blocks for certain applications. A block is a block.

Are you sure the stamp prefix is "F"? Flint V-8 stopped using the "F" prefix in July, 1966 - after that all Flint V-8's used the "V" prefix. :thumbsup:

John, I had a 67 ME in a fairly early camaro with the F prefix. I'm thinking maybe an OCT build? Anyway, Daniel has the data and POP information that also showed the F prefix.

hello all...newbie here...i have a motor the casting code is 3932388..on the back...and the # on the front is f1109hy..i think f means flint then the date code...but i dont know what the hy stands for??anybody know.?? thanks for any help...what it came out of??..year??


As John noted it would not have the F prefix by the time these blocks were in use but the HY suffix according to Colvin's book is a passenger 350/300hp manual.

Where did you see that Pat? I too have Colvin's book and mine shows the 1969 HY as Corvette 350/300! The 69 Passenger 350/300 is either HG, HH, HK, HN, HO, IB, IQ, IR, IS, IT or IV, depending on tramsmisison, police, clutch, etc... (by the way, my book is the 1994 - 2nd - printing)

My September, 1968 P&A 25 also shows the HY as Corvette, as does my October, 1972 P&A 30B, my 1968-1972 Vette Vues Fact Book (Dr. Murrell F. Dobbiins) and my Corvette Black Book (Michael Bruce).

Ed

You're right Ed, Corvette not passenger. I turned the page on the passenger codes and didnt pick up the change to Vette codes. That outta make him happy :)

That outta make him happy

Yeah, but we're still not sure about the Flint (F) stamping. Joe, we really need to see a picture here!!

:confused:

Ed

Seems also alot of those ...388 blocks had the partial vin on the oil filter pad area, which makes them hard to read if not out of the car too.


Not all that easy to see out of the car either:D

This is a 388 blocked Z, could someone tell me where to look for the date code on this?


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/DZRick/DZblock011Small.jpg

Originally the F for Flint was used on all Flint Michigan engines.
By 1967 they were also using the V for Flint Engine Plant.
However the F was still being used for Flint Motor Facility.

F might be for the LowPerf applications, or maybe only Corvette engines???
There were 2 different Flint factorys, and The V plant opened in 1967.

F = Flint Motor Facility
V = Flint Engine Plant

I asked the seller this:

how hard was the front end hit?

the grille is not painted indicating a front end accident to my eyes

here is the reply:

grill is not painted slight weather cracks in old silver grill. Black
looks better with car.

F = Flint Motor Facility
V = Flint Engine Plant

F = Flint Motor Facility - L6
V = Flint Engine Plant - V8
See http://www.camaros.org/drivetrain.shtml#PadStamps. :)

F = Flint Motor Facility - L6
V = Flint Engine Plant - V8
See http://www.camaros.org/drivetrain.shtml#PadStamps. :)
Knew it had to be something like that. ;)
Prior to 1967 - all Flint V8 engines used the F designation.

who knows - some may have slipped through after that?

This is a 388 blocked Z, could someone tell me where to look for the date code on this?

http://www.camaros.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2822&d=1173656649

http://www.camaros.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2822&d=1173656649


Thank you:beers:

Sorry guys. I was going by THIS SITE (http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c3/1969/69id.html) for the Corvette application. Ed

Ed, the '69 specs there apparently haven't been verified to the NCRS 1969 Judging Guide information; we list the 388 block in a '69 Corvette as "unverified" (have never seen or documented one).

:beers:

Thanks John. Kurt brought up a good point though about how this block is so common in other models you would think it would show up on the Corvette as well (I'm paraphrasing his post). Was there segregation between blocks for the Vettes?

I'd sure like to see a picture of Joe's (jab677) block. Joe, you still out there?

Ed

Really? For being as common as they are in Camaros and other models, I'm surprised they haven't been found in Corvettes.
I don't think the engine plants would be able to segregate blocks for certain applications. A block is a block.

Flint did for Corvettes - all '69 Corvette 350's had 4-bolt mains; Alan's Corvette book shows the stop/start dates for all three 350 Corvette blocks used in 1969, verified by our judging records. :thumbsup:

sorry guys havent been on here for a little while...ill try to get some pics on here sunday.i dont have a digital camera.ill have my brother bring his on sunday when he come over for easter...

I have had more then 4 Camaros with the 388 block. Way back CRG thought they were kind of hand picked for certian cars. I had a 1969 L.A. Z-28 with the 388 block that I sent pictures and pencil tracings in to Rich at CRG. It was also posted on Team Camaro for everyone to see. I have a 69 SS with a A-3-9 388 block that was stamped March 28th and came in a April S.S. L.A. car. I have 2 69 Pace Cars that both have original matching number 388 blocks. I have seen the 388 block in a handful of 69 Z's a few more S.S. cars and a bunch of pace cars. ??

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t95/jab6777/100_3392.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t95/jab6777/100_3385.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t95/jab6777/100_3389.jpg

this is the engine i aquired.can anybody tell me anything about it?.thanks for all the info!!

Looks like somebody stamped those numbers on that pad, not the factory.

this is the engine i aquired.can anybody tell me anything about it?.thanks for all the info!!

I've never seen the pad stamping facing towards the back of the motor......
Doug

this is the way i got the engine.i cleaned it with wire wheel to make it clear..i also thought it was weird the stamp was facing the engine...so most likely its a camaro motor??

Joe,

"HY" is a Corvette 350/300 engine with a manual transmission and a Rochester 4bbl.

It was the base (standard) engine on the Vette in 69.

Ed

Bertfam,

Joe said that the first letter on the pad was a "F". The "F" was last used on a Corvette engine in 1966, and there were no 350's put in Corvette's until 1969. I don't think that Joe's engine is out of a Vette with that stamp. In 1967 the "F" was dropped for the "V" for all Vette Flint engines.

HE was the suffix for the 327/300 horsepower engines in 65,66 with the "F" for Flint and HE was also used in '67 but again the "V" was used for Flint.

Lawrence

:thumbsup:

It is not a factory stamping, so who knows what that motor came out of.