What exactly is a Pro-Touring car?
Is it low profiled tires, fancy rims, big brakes and a big motor?
This is a serious question.
I am really curious as to what exactly needs to be done to a car to get the title of a "Pro-Touring Car"

Thanks for your imput in advance.

You'll never get a consensus on the true definition of pro-touring. Myself, I like to see a modern engine/trans combo with EFI, bigger modern wheels/tires, 4 wheel disc brakes, killer suspension, upgraded modern steering, upgraded modern interior, nice body/paint. Too many people slap 17" wheels on an early Camaro and call it pro-touring which is a joke. Other people probably won't think EFI is needed, but to me I would only call a car pro-touring if it has all of the above.

You'll never get a consensus on the true definition of pro-touring. Myself, I like to see a modern engine/trans combo with EFI, bigger modern wheels/tires, 4 wheel disc brakes, killer suspension, upgraded modern steering, upgraded modern interior, nice body/paint. Too many people slap 17" wheels on an early Camaro and call it pro-touring which is a joke. Other people probably won't think EFI is needed, but to me I would only call a car pro-touring if it has all of the above.

Thats pretty much it Jeff, although I would not say total interior but defiantly seats, AC, modern stero and real 4 wheel brakes not the cheapos you see or rear disc conversion kits advertised for a real low price which are not very efficient. Oh and a roll bar. My cars a driver, now its straight but the paint has rock chips and chunks of rubber on the rear quarters, not allot of flash but hey I drive it like I stole it and it shows.....

Originally Posted by Jeff H
You'll never get a consensus on the true definition of pro-touring. Myself, I like to see a modern engine/trans combo with EFI, bigger modern wheels/tires, 4 wheel disc brakes, killer suspension, upgraded modern steering, upgraded modern interior, nice body/paint. Too many people slap 17" wheels on an early Camaro and call it pro-touring which is a joke. Other people probably won't think EFI is needed, but to me I would only call a car pro-touring if it has all of the above

Hmmmm, Does that mean my 6 banger 4 gear car ain't quite up to pro touring spec..............
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
yet

:p

Paul

You'll never get a consensus on the true definition of pro-touring. Myself, I like to see a modern engine/trans combo with EFI, bigger modern wheels/tires, 4 wheel disc brakes, killer suspension, upgraded modern steering, upgraded modern interior, nice body/paint. Too many people slap 17" wheels on an early Camaro and call it pro-touring which is a joke. Other people probably won't think EFI is needed, but to me I would only call a car pro-touring if it has all of the above.

The flip side to that is too many people slap 20" wheels and call it pro-touring. That is even more of a joke to me.

Defining pro-touring is dificult because it can encompass so much. If you have some reading time give this a read http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11764

You'll never get a consensus on the true definition of pro-touring. Myself, I like to see a modern engine/trans combo with EFI, bigger modern wheels/tires, 4 wheel disc brakes, killer suspension, upgraded modern steering, upgraded modern interior, nice body/paint. Too many people slap 17" wheels on an early Camaro and call it pro-touring which is a joke. Other people probably won't think EFI is needed, but to me I would only call a car pro-touring if it has all of the above.

I think 'killer suspension' needs to be defined. In keeping the bar high to exclude all those Pro-touring pretenders it should be at least a 4-wheel independent setup, not some rehash of the stock suspension. Leaf springs are for wagons and trucks....

I think 'killer suspension' needs to be defined. In keeping the bar high to exclude all those Pro-touring pretenders it should be at least a 4-wheel independent setup, not some rehash of the stock suspension. Leaf springs are for wagons and trucks....So you would eliminate from pro-touring any car with either the DSE QuadraLink four link rear or the Lateral Dynamics 3 link? I think you've just defined your way into a very small and not very logical corner. Also, leaf springs can perform extremely well in first generation Camaros.

Ah, this is why Webster's dictionary doesn't do opinion polls!

So by JeffH's and onovakind67 definations mine doesn't qualify even though it's one of the first non-unibody, full frame touring cars done (1992-94), coilovers front/rear, etc? Guess I need to et EFI to join the club, darn... not trying to dig on you, but I think this tells us everyones definition is going to come up different on this one.

So you would eliminate from pro-touring any car with either the DSE QuadraLink four link rear or the Lateral Dynamics 3 link? I think you've just defined your way into a very small and not very logical corner. Also, leaf springs can perform extremely well in first generation Camaros.

It falls in line with most of the other reasoning. If I don't have 4-wheel disc brakes, am I disqualified? A good disc/drum setup performs extremely well. If I don't have EFI do I have to turn in my PT button? I know some carburetor guys who can make them perform very well. Modern steering? I know a lot of classic road racers who do very well with stock steering. What if I like the stock interior and a Muncie 4-speed?

My definition is a Camaro (say that because we are on a Camaro site) that handle, stop and perform with todays or later model cars. I also will throw into the mix they have some combination or just a few of the modern upgrades from the after market or adapted to fit like fuel injection, overdrives and interior, exterior parts.

I am working more on the looks side of mine right now, but it's going to have A/C, 4th gen seats and center consol and an overdrive trans. It was some suspension upgrades that are simple hotchkiss springs and front bar, del-lum bushings and I plan to have GW Cat 5 rear leafs. I will have some 17 inch wheels. My engine is vortec headed 327 witha mild vortec crate engine cam and headers.

Mods I am saving up for are the cat 5's, my wheels, then ATS spindles, and touring classics brakes at all four corners.

It's al going to be wraped up in a 67 Camaro body, with a stinger hood painted a solid color of 2002 Prowler Orange pearl with no stripes and only a stripe on the hood stinger in darker color than the car or a grayish and the tail panel blacked out like a big block car.

I will call the style I am doing mine as pro-touring. You could call it resto mod also but I think the interior changes and planned suspension up-grades with big brakes and last of all the color change to something not even GM put it into the pro-touring rank and not the resto-mod ranks.

That's a long winded version of what i think makes a pro-touring Camaro. I think it a fine line between it and resto mod. I think resto mod is a more stock appearing Camaro but it could perform just as well or better than a Pro-touring Camaro.

There are pro-touring Camaros out there that are monsters and will eat most anything up on the road but for those of us that work very hard to save just a few hundred $$$ in a 6 month peroid to spend on our Camaros the Pro-touring Cmaro your most likely to see is something more like what I am building.

Joe

I've never called my car pro-touring but many have refered to it as that. I have aftermarket performance springs, shocks, big 4 whl disc brakes, 17" wheels and 45 series tires. Also a carb'd roller cam'd sbc bored and stroked to 383 cu inches and an overdrive transmission, all sitting about 2" lower than factory.

When I first heard of pro-touring it was all about improving an old classic to drive, handle and ride in a more modern performance fashion. Now it seems it's becoming an elitist thing where only those that can afford to deck out their car with the latest in aftermarket parts are allowed to play...

I guess I'm glad I never addapted the moniker... I think I'll start a new classification, it will be called "pro-taint". Defined as: it taint pro-touring and it taint stock. Any other outcast Camaro owners on a limited budget want to join the ranks? You won't have to save reciepts or build a spread sheet of all the mods you've done and parts used. You won't have to show off a build sheet or orig window sticker or have your broch marks certified to join either. :clonk: :clonk: :clonk: I think we will have to have some sub classifications under pro-taint, for the performance guy you can call your car "hot-taint" and the more show oriented you will be "show-taint". The only thing is no "impor-taint" allowed... :D

Back to reality... It's just a name guys, back in the day we hotrodded and customized our cars. In modern times the name hotrod kinda stuck with the pre-'50s era cars with open wheels and open top roadsters. Look in the pages of HotRod Magazine, you won't find just 32 hi-boy articles. Pro-touring is just the modern moniker for hotrodding when applied to 60's vintage and newer cars. Look at what a modern roadster is all about and other than the vintage of the orig car it's the exact same thing that is going on in the pro-touring world...

Oh man, let me get the popcorn.

Oh man, let me get the popcorn.

Got room for one more Frank??!!! :clonk:

Jody

Oh man, let me get the popcorn.

Yeah, this could get interesting-- my point earlier is that I don't think it is fair for some people to lock the definition to a bunch of absolutes-- why try to exclude the person who can't afford the high dollar suspension or LS2 motor, maybe to him/her 17" torque thrusts and the guldstrand mod are pro-touring, or at least joining the club.

DJD has it right, it's just a name- I'm glad we were in on it before it had a name.

This is just a name the same as "Supercar". There is no set definition for either one. People use the PT term to try and enhance the value of their car. It seems like it's only the people trying to sell their car that want to call it PT. I don't think an expensive suspension or expensive disc brakes are needed, but upgraded and better performing parts are IMO. I personally don't like cars that are lowered too much because the roads and parking lots in NJ will wreak havoc on vehicles that sit too low. Resto mod, pro-touring, resitication. They're all just made up terms with no true definition. But the idea is to share information on how to make your older car perform, handle and stop more like a modern car. :hurray:

It falls in line with most of the other reasoning. If I don't have 4-wheel disc brakes, am I disqualified? A good disc/drum setup performs extremely well. If I don't have EFI do I have to turn in my PT button? I know some carburetor guys who can make them perform very well. Modern steering? I know a lot of classic road racers who do very well with stock steering. What if I like the stock interior and a Muncie 4-speed?So, to reiterate the point, for a car to be "pro-touring" by your defintion it must have an indepndent suspension, which won't perform as well doing all the things a "pro-touring" car is supposed to do as, for example, the Lateral Dynamics 3 link? I think you've just defined yourself into "pro-bling" and away from "pro-touring."

Okay boys, put down the popcorn, I'm done.

On my post I forgot to add either a overdrive auto or 5-6 speed transmission, I would not go so far as to add independant rear springs, but I will say there are some leaf spring cars out there that are faster than hell, by saying leaf springs are for trucks, where does that put rear coil springs Cadilacs? I have heard the term using EFI but I would not go that far. I really think it means better handeling, stopping, modern interior comforts and a strong engine. How you get there is up to you, I do beleave you have to most if not all these items to make PT, not just some huge ass tire wheel combo but it does sell to the uniformed. Look at eBay and the local adds spend a extra grand to make a extra $10,000.00 Now wheres the pop corn????

Interesting topic for sure.

I'll let the people who are better with words than I am make their points. I'll just say that I'm not really into labels.

Unfortunately, I've seen similar threads on other sites go south in a hurry, so I'll just kick back and > http://hometown.aol.com/zz430droptop67rs/images/popcorn.gif

I think Jeff Smith coined the term "pro-touring", ask him.

I hate it when the kernels get stuck in my teeth.

I've never called my car pro-touring but many have refered to it as that. I have aftermarket performance springs, shocks, big 4 whl disc brakes, 17" wheels and 45 series tires. Also a carb'd roller cam'd sbc bored and stroked to 383 cu inches and an overdrive transmission, all sitting about 2" lower than factory.

When I first heard of pro-touring it was all about improving an old classic to drive, handle and ride in a more modern performance fashion. Now it seems it's becoming an elitist thing where only those that can afford to deck out their car with the latest in aftermarket parts are allowed to play...

I guess I'm glad I never addapted the moniker... I think I'll start a new classification, it will be called "pro-taint". Defined as: it taint pro-touring and it taint stock. Any other outcast Camaro owners on a limited budget want to join the ranks? You won't have to save reciepts or build a spread sheet of all the mods you've done and parts used. You won't have to show off a build sheet or orig window sticker or have your broch marks certified to join either. :clonk: :clonk: :clonk: I think we will have to have some sub classifications under pro-taint, for the performance guy you can call your car "hot-taint" and the more show oriented you will be "show-taint". The only thing is no "impor-taint" allowed... :D

Back to reality... It's just a name guys, back in the day we hotrodded and customized our cars. In modern times the name hotrod kinda stuck with the pre-'50s era cars with open wheels and open top roadsters. Look in the pages of HotRod Magazine, you won't find just 32 hi-boy articles. Pro-touring is just the modern moniker for hotrodding when applied to 60's vintage and newer cars. Look at what a modern roadster is all about and other than the vintage of the orig car it's the exact same thing that is going on in the pro-touring world...
very well put .As for the part about 17'' wheels i think now days your best choices in handling tires are 17'' .If im correct you really can't get z rated tires in 15'' any more and 16'' are already on the way out.I guess what i'm doing is my version pro touring . upgraded 4 wheel disk brake ,g-mod ,bilstiens i-roc box hotchkis,dse mini tub ,air eclipse /rockford fosgate stereolate model interior etc....Interesting thought on the fuel injection .I looking at those today .Bottom line I,m building what i want .Kinda like building my own option sheet as i go .My version of a ss/z/28/rs should be .When it comes down to it when ever any one asks about my project ,They alway say how's the hotrod coming along.just my thoughts..

Pass the popcorn Jody!

BTW, I personally watched at the pro-touring.com / MuscleRides.com Autocross from hell Steve O's street fighter, with leaf springs, run with in 1/10ths of DSE's test car with the same driver. Steve O's car has leaf springs. And BTW, every car running mini tubs and 335s is doing it for bling, because there are probably only 5 cars in the country with enough tire up front to work with the monsters out back without the back pushing the front!

Here are some picks from the Run through the Hills

http://www.musclerides.com/Pages/RTH2_5.php

Pass the popcorn Jody!

BTW, I personally watched at the pro-touring.com / MuscleRides.com Autocross from hell Steve O's street fighter, with leaf springs, run with in 1/10ths of DSE's test car with the same driver. Steve O's car has leaf springs. And BTW, every car running mini tubs and 335s is doing it for bling, because there are probably only 5 cars in the country with enough tire up front to work with the monsters out back without the back pushing the front!

Here are some picks from the Run through the Hills

http://www.musclerides.com/Pages/RTH2_5.php

Good point Frank. When I saw Camaro X at Mark Stielows house last year I noticed even though he had tubbed the rear he was only running a 305 rear tire. Said one reason was there were more road race tires in that size, plus it was a better balance for the front 245/255's

Jody

Pro-t'aint is ME!!! I'm with Dennis on this one.

Seriously tho, a PT car is one like mine, sorta, 'cept it would be lower, and have bigger tires, and have a transplanted mustang interior with lotsa fancy billet things in it, and bigger tires, and...

Wutever.... anyone wanna meet me for a 3000 mile run? The winners get back without ever opening the hood (except to show off or course) and without causing permanent damage to any body parts (human not first gen) We can then all at least label ourselves "touring."

.... anyone wanna meet me for a 3000 mile run?I think that ability is a big part of the heart of the matter.

I'll classify mine as hot taint (hmm, sounds like what happens after too much mexican food)

.... anyone wanna meet me for a 3000 mile run?


Jim, some of us just went on one in June. You may have heard of it, The Hot Rod Power Tour. Depending on where you came from, you trip was typically over that if you did the long haul. Mine was about 3500 (22 MPG @ 75MPH for the trip). Although my car doesn't have "every" high dollar "pro touring" upgrade, it has some of them. I enjoy the style that the trend brings with it.

I didn't do the PT in 05, car wasn't done enuf, event ho they passed almost close enuf for me to hear them. This year it was Billings with my TC buds.

Next year, Power Tour, see you there.

Pro-What???:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

I think if you've owned a classic for a number of years, it's your job to keep up with the times. Just like if you were trying to value your house and instead of having granite countertops and stainless appliances, you have tile with brown grout and avacado appliances, you didn't do your job of "keeping up."

I've had my Camaro for over 17 years. It's gone through many phases. When I first bought it, I was coming off an import/handling phase and beefed up the suspension. Then I headed towards power.

Right now, I have a well handling, crate 383, nice paint and wheels, with a 700r4, and a 12-speaker sound system. And I'm going to Thunder Hill this Friday where I am able to pass several "track cars" and I'm a first timer. Is this the definition of Pro Touring?

I didn't do the PT in 05, car wasn't done enuf, event ho they passed almost close enuf for me to hear them. This year it was Billings with my TC buds.

Next year, Power Tour, see you there.Jim, do the whole thing this year - I think it is near enough to you and ends in RAD's area. Thank me when you get back.

We run the Mexican Power Tour, you can actually go as fast as you want on the open road.

This is from pro-touring.com.

"Pro-Touring: A classic muscle car with upgraded and updated suspension components, brake system, drive train and aesthetics, including many of the creature comforts of a new car. Built to function as well or better than some of today’s best performance cars. Pro-Touring cars are built to be driven. Driven on the street, on the race track, on the drag strip, through cones at an auto-cross, no matter the setting, pro-touring cars are meant to be driven. [Generally speaking, late model cars are not considered pro-touring due to their factory designed suspension and brake packages.]"

Personally, I don't care about what constitutes pro-touring or not according to someones diffinition. I plan to drive the hell out of my car after it is done. I will be at the next TC Billings get together or where ever.

In my way of thinking, "touring" is nothing more than driving around and looking at stuff.

Pro-touring is getting PAID to drive around and look at stuff.

Good work if you can get it.

oooh oooh, I remember now...

For a car to be officially "Pro-Touring", it must have both a name and a 3D rendering done by a professional artist.

For a car to be officially "Pro-Touring", it must have both a name and a 3D rendering done by a professional artist.

Now that's funny!

Thats a good one Jim .

Ouch Jim!

rotflmfao!!!!!


gotcha!!!

In my opinion, Pro-Touring and a Cannonball are synonymous. First of all, the car has to pass by Gas stations. Secondly, the car must be able to Cruise at any speed between what’s posted and be able to disappear from sight with in the blink of the eye on the open prairie. Thirdly, the suspension has to handle jumping curbs at 60 mph and be able to carry over 600 lbs and lastly, the Tool Box you carry must be able to repair anything you break. I believe, Moonshine Runners actually invented the Term Pro-Touring and the Class 3 Trailer Hitch was Optional - LOL

hey, its like having a hy-brid. modern tech suspension, brakes. etc. with the reliability of old. i tormented the whole issue and went with all the modern stuff. (13 inch baers. corbeau seats . roll cage. 17 inch wheel tire, but still stuck with the solid roller high compression barry grant fed small block chev. im not going to drive across the country. but locally its a kick in the ass! try the best of both yer gonna have fun!.....

Compensation for a "small block" in the barn - LOL :beers:

I thought Pro-taint had to to have 'Foose' somewhere on it.

You'll never get a consensus on the true definition of pro-touring. Myself, I like to see a modern engine/trans combo with EFI, bigger modern wheels/tires, 4 wheel disc brakes, killer suspension, upgraded modern steering, upgraded modern interior, nice body/paint. Too many people slap 17" wheels on an early Camaro and call it pro-touring which is a joke. Other people probably won't think EFI is needed, but to me I would only call a car pro-touring if it has all of the above.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q288/jjarky/enginecomp.jpg

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q288/jjarky/rightmidoutside2.jpg

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q288/jjarky/interior.jpg

JJ, that engine compartment is perfect. The EFI manifold is a deal maker, too. Seats, Pro-car Rallys? I want them in my 67. Nice.

jj,

Nicely done.

Where did you get the intake duct that attaches to the manifold?

Oh man, let me get the popcorn.

Hey Frank!
Can I have some too?
BTW, I like that cheddar cheese on mine:waving:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q288/jjarky/enginecomp.jpg

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q288/jjarky/rightmidoutside2.jpg

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q288/jjarky/interior.jpg

That is Bad Ass !!!

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q288/jjarky/enginecomp.jpg

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q288/jjarky/rightmidoutside2.jpg

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q288/jjarky/interior.jpg
Now that is bad a$$!!

Mike