The last three months my car has been in the shop getting painted and since I myself am not a body or paint man, I wanted to share with you guys my absolute amazement as to how this process went down.

I originally bring my car in the fix a pass. side fender I had crunched in a little mishap. (NOTE: It was the front fender, I will never get hit from behind!!!). Okay, so I thought what the heck, might as well fix all the dings in the car while it's there right??? The right door also has some damage so naturally that means that we are going to have to paint at least the entire door and fender. The roof has what looks to be very small almost unnoticeable spots in the paint, but what the heck, let's paint that too!!! Now, good thing we don't have to paint the hood and the trunk lid, RIGHT???? Wrong!!! I never noticed it before but the Z-28 style stripes are not painted in the correct locations (and we couldn't have that, COULD WE???). Well OK, let's paint that too!!!

Then I start to see that there are some minor but noticable waves in the other body panels as well. Well, next thing I know the ALL the paint is taken off ALL the body panels and metal repair process starts. This is where all the filler is taken off the body (there was some but not much, mind you) and the resultant low areas are pulled out as flat as possible to the surrounding metal areas. Now a very thin layer of that plastic stuff (THE BIG B) is spread thinly over each and every one of the body panels the vast majority of this is sanded off resulting in the aforementioned LOW spots being now being smoothed out to the surrounding metal areas. Now body panels that didn't fit EXACTLY perfectly are taken off the car (like the trunk lid) and are very carefully bent into the desired shape with high tech tools like 2 x 4's!!! The body panels are put back into place and are fitted within 1/32nd of an inch tolerances so that all the gaps between body panels are perfectly consistent. Now the body lines are checked and are CORRECTED for things like high spots, low spots, etc. Now comes the blocking process. This is where the car is shot with a coat of primer and sanded as smooth as possible. This process is repeated three times!!! The purpose of this is to eliminate my aforementioned waves in the body panels!!!

WHEW!!!!! Now we are ready to paint. Three basecoat layers and three clearcoat layers with color sanding in between!!!

And to sum it all up my friends, this is why it costs the big bucs for a show quality paint job!!! I don't envy you paint and body guys!!!

...a nickels worth of free advice, if you havent done so yet, when you go to pick up your car, tell them you want to look at it inside, as inside a bldg. without any sun light. If everything passes your inspection inside, and you think its unbelieveable inside, wait till you get it outside. http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif



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67 Camaro SS Conv.
70 Challenger R/T Conv.

Excellent suggestion Ragtop!!!

As a matter of fact I have looked at it inside and the paint looked deep enough that you could swim it, you know what I mean????

I had it painted Garnet Red, the color it was supposedly when I took it in there. HOWEVER, using the correct PPG codes the color is MUCH brighter that what was on the car. I also chose a much brighter white paint for the Z-28 styled stripes because I thought the 69 White was rather dull looking with limited brilliance. When I originally bought the car, I wasn't too crazy about it being red, but it kind of grew on me. I had considered changing colors to DUSK Blue but since I was 50/50 on it, I decided to keep it Garnet Red especially since I have a white interior with red accents like the carpet and seat belts.

The other thing that surprizes me is how color sanding brings out the brilliance in the paint. As a paint & body novice, when I first saw the body panels after they were color sanded with the resultant dull finish, I just about freaked out!!! Then when the panels were buffed out, I started breathing normally again!!!

The real test of a paint job is how it is going to look a couple of years from now anyway. The possibility of me having any problems in the future is really very slim with the amount or prep and priming that was done on this car prior to the application of paint.

I hope to post pictures next week.



[This message has been edited by sr71bb (edited 09-29-2000).]

Just out of curiosity, Sr71bb, how much did this end up costing you? I'm just about ready to put my '68 through the same process and all the estimates have been $5k and up so far.
You should post some pictures if you can, it sounds great. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

I haven't seen the final bill yet and it is a little deceiving because it does include fixing some collision damage on the right front fender and door but it is going to be in the neighboorhood of 12K.

The painting was done by a guy that does show cars and as such he is very meticulous. I had a friend of mine that went through the basically the same procedures as I did BUT his was done by a different paint shop of similar quality to the one I used and he spent 11,900 which included some patch panels and rear window metal fabrication. He also had the car taken down to the metal prior to painting (this car was a color change ).

I would have never thought the cost would have been this high really but that was prior to me knowing about what processes and labor is involved. I have seen some beautiful paint jobs that were done and cost their owners in the neighboorhood of 5-7K so I'm not saying that they can't be done for that but in these two cases, we both wanted show quality paint jobs and the body prep is what cost the big bucks anyway.

I will say that you CA boys have a better supply of good paint & body guys out there so IMO all other things being equal, I think you can get the same type of job for 2-3K less. There are very few P&B guys out here that want to mess with us fanatical first gen guys!!! They can make far more money doing insurance collision repair jobs.





[This message has been edited by sr71bb (edited 09-29-2000).]

Yes, you're right about shops not wanting to touch anything but insurance work. I've come across that stance a lot already.
My car's a daily driver - the novelty of my first muscle car still hasn't worn off and I want to drive it as much as I can http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif - so I'm not looking for show-quality paint but even so, I want it to look the part.
The part in you first post about leaving the car in the shop for three months scred me though - I'm not sure I can last that long without my baby!!;D
Don't tell the wife I said that.......

Actually three months is a relatively short period of time considering the work involved. I went by unannouced every week and they were always doing some work on the car. I have heard horror stories where cars have been left for a year and more to get this type of work done!!! That's why you should NEVER consider choosing a body shop out of town (Out of Sight, Out of Mind!!)


[This message has been edited by sr71bb (edited 09-29-2000).]

I was quoted $3,500 to repaint my car by a local shop that does good work. This was without any body repair, which I don't think my car needs. I've seen a couple of cars they have done and they look great. The guy told me that they would do it but they don't like to work on old cars. He said when they have to rust repair or put quarters on the price usually jumps to around $10,000.

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'69 RS SS 396 375hp L78 Convertible, M22, 3.31 posi, deluxe interior, gauges, rosewood wheel, AM-FM,fold down seat, tilt wheel, SS wheels, console mounted 8 track player, chambered exhaust
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1169124&a=8603468

BINGO Chris,

After seeing my car today, Chris (my body man) told me he normally gets around $4,500 to just paint a car and he currently has a line of people waiting to bring their cars into him for the next 18 months!!! This DOES NOT include body work of any kind nor would BLOCKING a car be included. So it seems to me we are all working on the same page here.

Congrats sr71bb,

I've painted four of my own cars over the last ten years. The amount of time spent getting the car ready for paint is ENORMOUS!!!!!! Then after the car is painted you still have a bunch of time (days) getting the paint color-sanded and buffed. Ragtopman is absolutely correct, if the paint looks good inside under fluorescent lights (which show every sanding scratch and swirl mark as well as errors in body work) then it will look fantastic outside.

Congrats again on getting the car back. As one who knows how much effort is put into a show paint job, the price was very fair.

Jody

sr71bb- How does it look inside? Can you see anything inside that you cant outside? Any dirt nibs, 'peel, scratches?

Sunlight is whats called 'full spectrum light'. Where as , say regular flourescent tubes, only shows the blue spectrum. Sunlight can make even a crappy paint job look good, and will hide what I mentioned above.

When you sand the clear, you are increasing whats called 'DOI'. Distinctiveness of Image". Its usually measured at 20 degrees, but when you sand it flat with a stick, and buff it back out, it just brings a smile to your face.

And I like your color combo. Now comes the hard part, takeing care of it. Alot of maintenance, but do enjoy.

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67 Camaro SS Conv.
70 Challenger R/T Conv.

Thanks ALL!! CAMCO, I envy you from the standpoint of painting your own car. I have alot of mechanical skill sets but I never acquired the knowledge to actually do the body/paint work myself but I tried to learn as much about the processes involved as possible so that I would know how I wanted my own car done. It's funny I think you can become almost an expert at something without ever have done it yourself if you are willing to SHUT UP and just listen!!! A GREAT example is Scottie Bowen, perhaps the greatest hockey coach ever but he himself never played the game!!! I think the secret is learning from the right teacher!!!

Ragtop,

You would like this guy. He used all sorts of sanding sticks and such. They looked like paint stir sticks to me. On his last sanding pass he used 1000 grit sandpaper before he buffed it back out. While nothing is flawless, I am still pretty amazed at the finish. And it does look as good inside the car as out. I guess I got my own RAGTOPMAN down here in Dallas, HUH???

The thing I noticed is that there are no ridges where the Z-28 stripes and regular body color paint meet. You can take your hand and if you closed your eyes and ran it horizontally across the trunk or hood you can't tell where the stripes begin and end. As a matter of fact, there are no paint edges or ridges ANYWHERE.

Anyway, I guess I am babbling on here. I'll post pics next week.


[This message has been edited by sr71bb (edited 09-30-2000).]

[This message has been edited by sr71bb (edited 09-30-2000).]

Hey sr71bb, What PPG line did the shop use (deltron, concept, global)? Paint stir sticks trimed down are the best blocks made, IMO. Glad your happy with your car. Happy driving.
Austin

Sounds like your car turned out awsome, congratulations. The final sanding grit sounds a little too rough though. Are you sure they buffed it out after using 1000? I use 1500 then 2000.

Happy,

I will asked tom. I think he said 1000 because you can buff out 1000 scatches but I could be wrong.

The other thing I noticed is that with lower levels of light you can tell more easily the quality of the paint because it is reflecting more light than it was with the prior paint job. I guess as some of you guys have mentioned, direct sunlight pretty much will relect off of any surface, the key is how it looks in lower levels of light.

Austin,

I will ask Chris about what PPG he used because I don't know.

[This message has been edited by sr71bb (edited 10-01-2000).]

1000 grit can be buffed, but its alot more work. He could have started with 1000 to make it go alittle faster, then finished with a finer grit. I sometimes start with 1000 to remove ridges (from two-tones or stripes) or sags, then finish with 1500 to 2000. 2000 is my faverate grit for finishing.
sr71bb, If you think of it ask, I was just curious.
Austin

Congrats on the car! I will never forget going through this process the first time. I can ditto everything you said, hours and hours of prep time. Then I watched him spray the base coat and it was this dull flat dark green, then the clear coat went on coat after coat. WOW, I thought it looked great. I brought my wife by the next day and yech, he had it all clouded up from the color sanding. She thought I was nuts. But then he hit if with the buffer and omigosh! The rear quarters are so perfect they are like mirrors. Later I had it in a car show and the painter (now a good friend) and I walked around looking at the cars. He pointed out different aspects of the paint on the cars and really gave me a true appreciation for what is a top paint job.
The Camaro I am working on is one of the one year plus projects. My friend has moved, the next guy taking his place was killed on a motorcycle and the latest replacement just wants insurance work so I have moved it to a new shop. Hopefully
it will be out in early spring so I can finish assembly and have it for the summer.
Enjoy your car, it sounds awesome and don't worry yourself too much, nothing can happen to that paint that your guy can't fix!!

Austin,

The PPG that was used on my car was DBC. I guess that's Deltron.


Happy,

Chris used 1500 grit on the final color sanding not 1000 grit as I had originally posted.

Cool, can't wait to see some pictures.

sr71bb, Thats the updated deltron (concept) pretty good stuff. Only one step down from PPG's best. Global is coming in slow in many shops, its scary to switch paint lines.

Yea I know what you mean Austin,

Chris said DUPONT had to pay him 4500 dollars one time to repaint a car he did with a new formula. He said he felt pretty comfortable with DBC and that's why he used it.

By the way, what is the advantage in using GLOBAL PPG ???? Do the different brands of paint have different hardness's to them??? In other words, is a DBC paint more chip resistant than say a laquer paint????

The reason I ask is that my prior paint seemed to chip rather easily (it was laquer based) compared to some of the newer paints.

[This message has been edited by sr71bb (edited 10-03-2000).]

sr71bb, the clears in the concept line (2042?) are about the same quality as the Global line, and should be a good durable clear. Europe has been the leader in paint technoligy for a long time, and global is PPGs line that was actually developed in Europe and in use there years before it was avaliable here. Basically it was developed to be used internationally. The biggest advantage in my mind is- better coverage in colors, more pearls & mixing toners for better match on newer colors, the sealer chemically bonds to OEM e-coats (no sanding of new OEM parts needed), a corrosion resistant primer surfacer, and I like the way the clear lays down. The premire line from DuPont was developed for some of the same reasons (I believe). With the europian paint companys gaining popularity in the states they knew they had to do something.
Austin

Thnaks for the explanation, Austin. It is all CLEAR to me now!!!!

Very nice pun grasshopper.

SR71BB,
just so you can see what kind of work it takes to get that deep shine,get an old body panel thats in decent shape and color sand it with 1000grit,then 2000grit,and buff,you'll see a shine like you want and the popeye arms to boot.its very labor intensive.thats why its so expensive.i plan to do the work myself.allthough its no show car ,i'd stil like to see it shine (deep & wet )and btw send pics when done http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif

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My68Camaro (http://hometown.aol.com/Dougs68Camaro/index.html)
Doug G.
68 Camaro
406 ci.

[This message has been edited by DOUG G (edited 10-08-2000).]

[This message has been edited by DOUG G (edited 10-08-2000).]

Never Mind!!! See Next Post Below for The PICS I promised.

[This message has been edited by sr71bb (edited 10-08-2000).]

Here is a blown up PIC of "TAZ". Lighting was kind of bad because he was under a tent but you get the idea.

http://geocities.com/sr71bb_taz/mvc-016s.jpg
http://geocities.com/sr71bb_taz/mvc-017s.jpg




[This message has been edited by sr71bb (edited 10-08-2000).]

SWEEEET.
NICE COLOR COMBO.

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My68Camaro (http://hometown.aol.com/Dougs68Camaro/index.html)
Doug G.
68 Camaro
406 ci.

Very nice!!! http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif Were all the cars under tents? Class show if they were!

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...Dennis
Topless'69 (http://home1.gte.net/ddunio/topless69)
Camaros Limited Nor-Cal (http://camaroslimited.com)
rsss.fun@gte.net

Yea they were DJD with the exception of the first 10 or so that got there and they park on a row just outside of the tent area. Since this facility was a Chevy Dealership, these covered areas are normally occupied by cars for sale.

After doing a few of these shows I have mixed feelings about them. I love seeing all the different cars and talking to the different owners but I also see that alot of people's feelings get hurt when they don't win or when they don't get the trophy they had worked so hard for.

Personally, I could care less although is is very nice when your car gets acknowledged. I don't need a trophy for my ego but aparrently they are many that do and I think that is sad. I would just as soon see them give the trophies to the younger guys that who maybe are quite there yet with their cars but you can tell they put their whole heart into it.

Case in point was a guy who had a AC Cobra relica and he pulled in about four trophies on that one car. It was very nice, don't get me wrong, but it would have been better if they spread it around a little, do you know what I mean??? This show was run VERY well in that the participant voting came up with the majority of the trophy winners. There were also some trophies that were given away by sponsors.

I think the concept I like best was how the car shows were handled on the Power Tour. Basically they were cruise-ins with between 800-1000 cars at each stop. No awards really except for one they would give to an individual car each day of the cruise in. The comaradarie was incredible though because the cars and the love for them was the focus NOT the trophy process.

NOW, AFTER HEARING THIS, STOP BITCHIN' WHEN US BODY GUYS GIVE YOU AN ESTIMATE TO PAINT YOUR CARS!!!! ITS NOT EASY!! WHY DO YOU THINK IT TAKES US SO LONG TO PAINT OUR OWN CARS??? WE HATE DOING IT FOR FREE.

I was fortunate to have seen your car at he show (Young Chevrolet) and will attest to the great quality of the paint and body. The guy who painted your car won Super Chevy with his '70 Camaro the last 2 years at Ennis correct? I know that he owns sevral other nice cars. SOmeone mentioned to me that your car was a daily driver. Please tell me that it ain't so! No doubt, it's a mighty fine ride!

Yep SSDANNY69,

You nailed it on the painter (Chris @ Advantage Autoworks). His split bumper 70 Camaro is painted a BRILLIANT Silver and has a 496. The car is just AWESOME!!!

And YES, my car is driven EVERY day. I gave my daughter my custom blazer that WAS my daily driver.

By the way, THANKS!!!!

Don't forget about the cruise this Sat. Chris will have both his cars there supposedly (check BENCH RACING post). We will be stopping at CLASSIC Chevrolet at around 9:30AM this Sat. as part of the cruise thing.



[This message has been edited by sr71bb (edited 10-20-2000).]