Since im going to replace my flowmasters with dynomax ultra flows, im thinking of canning my hack job exaust for somthing a little more suitable. Im thinking about going with the 3" summit X pipe kit here http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2D642130&N=700+400304+308119+115&autoview=sku
and going through 3" ultraflows straight out before the rear end. Anyone have any expierence with this kit? I was wondering how X-pipes sound and if there is a big advantage to them? Would I be wasting money? Will this be good enough so i dont have to drop my pipes at the track anymore? Any info would be great, thanks
If it matters my combo is a 11.1:1 350, RR200's single plain intake, 750 mighty demon, 258/264 @.050 soild F/T cam. 1 7/8x 3.5" headers which might go to 1 5/8"x3" some time, but not now. Also i shift at 7,000rpm

I love the X pipe sound, and I'm sure many cases you gain with them, but you never can say for sure from car to car. The thing I like the most about them, is they really mellow the exhaust note idling and part throttle, but mash on it and it screams, sounds awesome IMO, kind of like a cup car.
I will say however, pick your X wisely, they are not all equal. I have DR. Gas X pipes on both of my cars (my camaro and my 5 liter mustang), and I think the extra money for them is easily worth it 100X's over.
With a good exhaust, in the ET range you are in especially, there is no need to pull it off at the track. I recently switched exhaust on my camaro, went from a full 2.5" with flowmasters and a crossover pipe, to a 3" to a 3" Dr gas X, to magnaflows, and dumped at the rear axle. The new exhaust is barely louder idling and around town, but sounds far better IMO. I did no other changes, and picked up .3 and over 2 MPH in the 1/4, and .06 in the 60', (went 11.41 @ 116.5, w/ a 1.57 60') and I'm actually sure the car will go a bit faster, the conditions were not that great that day.

Sean: have you looked at any other brands of x-pipes? I have a Dr. Gas unit on the car now, but I don't knkow if I'm gonna be able to save it and use it on my new system...it's quite a bit more expensive than the other brands, but I haven't seen any others to compare?

Rob, I have seen two or three, Jegs, summit and magnaflow. While they are similar, they don't seem to intersect the same, and the kits (X and mandrels to and from) don't seem to fit as straight, The Dr Gas ones require some work, so the others would be even worse I imagine. The magnaflow is stamped and seems totally different, though it looks well built.
My buddy had one on his 70 olds that was from Jegs I believe, and he was never real happy with it, he thought it just looked cheap and poorly constructed, and the intersection was not very precise. He swapped it out to a Kooks' version (which looks similar to Dr gas), and Magnaflows, from his jegs X and flowmasters on his 455, and picked up almost .2 , in fact that was one of the reasons I went with Magnaflows.
I can't substantiate any claim of a difference, but it's one of those deals, the DR. Gas piece just looks much stronger and better built, plus they are the originals, to me it's worth it.:thumbsup:

I originally had Flowmaster 40's and 2 1/2'' pipes on my 69 454. I went with a 3'' system with a Dr.Gas x-pipe. My 454 definetly sounds different and I like it. I get compliments on it all the time. Oh yea, I went with Spintec Sportsman XL mufflers.

I love the X pipe sound, and I'm sure many cases you gain with them, but you never can say for sure from car to car. The thing I like the most about them, is they really mellow the exhaust note idling and part throttle, but mash on it and it screams, sounds awesome IMO, kind of like a cup car.
I will say however, pick your X wisely, they are not all equal. I have DR. Gas X pipes on both of my cars (my camaro and my 5 liter mustang), and I think the extra money for them is easily worth it 100X's over.
With a good exhaust, in the ET range you are in especially, there is no need to pull it off at the track. I recently switched exhaust on my camaro, went from a full 2.5" with flowmasters and a crossover pipe, to a 3" to a 3" Dr gas X, to magnaflows, and dumped at the rear axle. The new exhaust is barely louder idling and around town, but sounds far better IMO. I did no other changes, and picked up .3 and over 2 MPH in the 1/4, and .06 in the 60', (went 11.41 @ 116.5, w/ a 1.57 60') and I'm actually sure the car will go a bit faster, the conditions were not that great that day.
Sean,
Just curious what magnaflows you are using. I currently use the 2 1/2 flowmaster system with delta flow 40's and the H-pipe that dumps out at the factory exits. Did you really see that change alone gaining .3 and 2 mph or were there other factors? What was your total cost to change over to this set-up? This may be something for me to consider in the future, thanks.

John,
I went with the standard oval case Magnaflows, I cant recall the exact ones, but I think 18" case. I could find out exactly, but only one size will really fit in a first gen comfortably.
And yes, the only change I made was the exhaust, I was going to put a set of 4.10 gears in it too, but waited to see the results of the exhaust first. It was an honest comparison.
Old exhaust; 2 1/2" non mandrel pipe, "H" crossover, 2 1/2" 2 chamber flowmasters, out the back exiting in the factory location.
New exhaust; 3" mandrel Dr gas X kit and pipes, in and out, to 3" magnaflows, to turndowns at the axle.
That was all that I changed, old ET was 11.70 @ 114.2, new ET so far is 11.41 @ 116.5, and I know it will go a little faster, that was with a 8-10 mph headwind.
Seriously, I felt immediate change in all aspects of the performance after the change, idle, throttle response, full throttle pull.
Now, of course there could be a debate over what gave me the increase, but the pipe size and mufflers are the major reason IMO, the X pipe mellows the sound (I really like the sound too), and any increases are a bonus. The Dr gas techs claimed it would definately benefit from the X, though not the main reason I bought it. My 406 definately needed a bigger exhaust.
The thing I love, is overall, there is very little increase in noise, in fact it sounds better at idle, a little deeper, and a nice mellow sound at cruise. People at the track comment quite a bit at how quiet the car is, for running low 11's (not to mention the totally stock, rallye wheel clad appearance :D )
As far as cost, I could dig up my reciepts and give you exact numbers, but roughly, 200$ for the DR. Gas X and pipes in/out, about 120$ for the mufflers, 40$ for the flowaster turndowns, and I paid an exhaust shop about 280$ to install. I spent a bit more for install, but I told the guy to take his time, tuck it up tight, and I was very picky. He literally got it up tighter than my old 2 1/2" pipes, its a nice install. I do all the work on my car, but some things are best left to the experts.

I fit a 3.5" DR gas X on my Nova, and it fits so good it's hard to see from the side of the car. I also used Magnaflow muffs, but I used the 14" versions with tail pipes. I built it all my self, I enjoy exhaust work.
Runs purdy good too!
Ron

Come to think of it, I think mine are 14" case as well. They fit nice a comfortably under there.

Sean, so your current set up does not exit out the back at the factory location?? With the current 2 1/2" tail pipes it's pretty tight, but I think 3" pipes could fit with some tweaking.

No, they exit at the axle. I know 3" could be done out at the factory spot, I've seen it, but the installer has to be good. It actully looks sweet if done well.
I just wasn't worried about it anymore, and I am pleasantly surprised by the fact it's not obnoxiously noisy. I think the X has a lot to do with that.

Here's a pic of mine:
TorqueTech - 3 1/2 to the X-over, 3 in to the Muffs (Dynomax Ultra Flos), 3 in out tails (between the spring and quarter panel)
Edit: Little slow on the uptake...Novaguy probably doesn't care what they look like/how they fit on a Camaro...sorry about that, I deleted the pics.
I was really surprised at how tame at idle the mufflers were. It has a great sound. If you want, I'll try to figure out how to put a video up so you can hear it.

Scott

BTW, the X looked to be created by joining 2 90* bends and welding all around. 2 3/16"?x4"x4" plates are welded to the top and bottom of the X. It's not coming apart!
Haven't see a Dr. Gas, but have heard it is a very nice piece.

yeah that would be great

Here's a pic of mine:
TorqueTech - 3 1/2 to the X-over, 3 in to the Muffs (Dynomax Ultra Flos), 3 in out tails (between the spring and quarter panel)
Edit: Little slow on the uptake...Novaguy probably doesn't care what they look like/how they fit on a Camaro...sorry about that, I deleted the pics.
I was really surprised at how tame at idle the mufflers were. It has a great sound. If you want, I'll try to figure out how to put a video up so you can hear it.

Scott

Nova and Camaro are nearly identical underneath. Tailpipes will be slightly different. Camaro has less room between the spring and quarter.
I actually have 3.5" tailpipes on mine. Exit behind the rear tire between the spring and quarter panel just like stock.

Mine isn't all that quiet, but measures 94 db at full song at the track.

Ron

I have never run X pipes but have wondered what they sound like when compared to convential H pipe with transverse muffler like the Flowmaster. Just wonder as they would be balanced in two places? Anyone?

Well the sound quality from my video camera always seems too quiet. I need to use a better microphone I think...
Here's the best I could do. At least it was useful to me...I didn't know my taillight was burnt out. :clonk:
http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h28/67Therapy/?action=view&current=MOV00032.flv