Went and looked at this car today...

http://images.traderonline.com/EMedia/tarchive2/144/201871/00477132509.jpg

1969 CHEVROLET CAMARO, RS, rebuilt 350, hi-po heads, runs strong, muncie 4-speed, 11" clutch, front discs, 12 bolt rear, Edelbrock intake, Holley carburetor & MSD ignition, original gauges & tach, new hugger orange paint & black vinyl top, all new polyurethane bushings, much more...

The paint was very good. One place needs attention (crack in paint - owner says no bondo on car just a crack in the paint just below the vinyl roof) Top looked great. Doors and hood/trunk line up well. Says the block is numbers matching and the car is a true RS. Original tranny was replaced long ago but was and is a 4 speed car. Interior needs work - seat covers/foam, dash pad, steering wheel, etc... Everything is there and functional but could use replacement parts due to age. Seemed to run very well. No groans or squeeks. What's a fair price based on this info? And what's a realistic estimate for re-doing the interior if I get brave enough to do the work myself? Thanks guys.

Matt

20k is my first thought.

Matt I dont see the words "RallySport" on the fender behind the front wheel..its a long small letter word and goes on both sides of the RS cars. The photo you posted isnt a good angle but I dont see it there. Is there an extra solenoid on top of the wiper motor for the headlight washers? Are the nozzles above the headlights? There are many things to look for to determine if it was original RS or not. Use the 'search' function and type in RS for more.
What are the VIN and Cowl tag data? Vinyl top cars are very prone to rust under the vinyl. Check it closely. Do you have pics of the engine bay? How many fuel lines? Dual exhaust reinforcement plate behind the drivers side rear wheel on the frame at about 1 o'clock? So much info. is really needed to give you a price range :)

"RS" is too short or too common for search. Use "light cutout" or "firewall vacuum hole" and you should find one of the posts with all the cues for an original 68-69 RS.

Matt I dont see the words "RallySport" on the fender behind the front wheel..its a long small letter word and goes on both sides of the RS cars. The photo you posted isnt a good angle but I dont see it there. Is there an extra solenoid on top of the wiper motor for the headlight washers? Are the nozzles above the headlights? There are many things to look for to determine if it was original RS or not. Use the 'search' function and type in RS for more.
What are the VIN and Cowl tag data? Vinyl top cars are very prone to rust under the vinyl. Check it closely. Do you have pics of the engine bay? How many fuel lines? Dual exhaust reinforcement plate behind the drivers side rear wheel on the frame at about 1 o'clock? So much info. is really needed to give you a price range :)


The rally sport badges are there. I'm getting a few more pics from the owner today. The rear valance has the reverse lights and the owner says the valance was stamped for the lights (ie: the valance was not an SS part that was modified.) The top was redone at the time of the paint work and it was primed and painted underneath.

Thanks for the info guys, keep it coming. :thumbsup:

matt

The rally sport badges are there. I'm getting a few more pics from the owner today. The rear valance has the reverse lights and the owner says the valance was stamped for the lights (ie: the valance was not an SS part that was modified.) The top was redone at the time of the paint work and it was primed and painted underneath.

Thanks for the info guys, keep it coming. :thumbsup:

matt

Not in the picture you have posted.:sad:
Just a little insight, I have a 69 RS BB. It is not a numbers matching car but it is a very nice originally 396 RS car. It has a 454 with a TCI trans and a Moser 12 bolt. Black with white SS stripes and houndstooth interior. When I was at a car show in Ocean City, Maryland last spring I was offered 38k and turned it downed.
If the car is an original RS just like was said above (there are alot of ways to be 100% sure) and the body is in good shape with interior work needed. Then I would have it appraised and go from there. One other way to tell if it's an RS, check the headlight switch. There should be some vacuum line hook ups on it and the drivers side inner fender should have the vacuum tank. If not the holes should be there.
Good luck.:waving: From the picture it does look nice. :thumbsup:

Not in the picture you have posted.:sad:
Just a little insight, I have a 69 RS BB. It is not a numbers matching car but it is a very nice originally 396 RS car. It has a 454 with a TCI trans and a Moser 12 bolt. Black with white SS stripes and houndstooth interior. When I was at a car show in Ocean City, Maryland last spring I was offered 38k and turned it downed.
If the car is an original RS just like was said above (there are alot of ways to be 100% sure) and the body is in good shape with interior work needed. Then I would have it appraised and go from there. One other way to tell if it's an RS, check the headlight switch. There should be some vacuum line hook ups on it and the drivers side inner fender should have the vacuum tank. If not the holes should be there.
Good luck.:waving: From the picture it does look nice. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the info. The vacuum pumps are there and the light covers work pretty well (much better than others I've seen). The guy just had it painted so i assume the pic was before he replaced the badges - good eye on such a bad pic.:thumbsup:

Matt

If it was me looking at the car one thing I would ask the owner about is the license plate. The W plate was used fairly early in the 68 model year. I don't think I have seen a 69 car with that early of a number. I have an original California 67 Camaro with the plates starting with V. The Y and Z plates were the common ones on 69 cars. A fairly small detail but worth the question since a true black/yellow plate car is getting very hard to find.

I wrote this up for a guy on the chevelle forum, I was talking about a chevelle, the basics are here, but the body is what will beat you on most occasions, it sounds like you're not to far away so you could put the time in on it.

Just because its painted underneath, means nothing without a close inspection.

Hope this helps you out.

A lot of people, not saying you in particular, don't really understand what kind of problems a $15,000 fourty year old car has, people look at it like its a three year old normal car or truck, if you know what I'm trying to say here.

There are $15000 cars and $30000 cars, visually sometimes to the average person, they don't understand the difference.

Say you narrow your search down to three cars, all around that price, okay lets say you get a professional body shop owner or one that does a lot of bodywork and maybe a little mechanical.

Tell him you will give him $200 to spend about an hour or two after work to look at these cars.

Get him and four jack stands, flashlight and a decent floor jack.

So you look at all three, you're out $600. And you don't have a car, but if you buy the one that he says is the best of the three, you might have saved yourself a ton of money down the road.

Anybody that has a car over $10000 should be willing to let somebody give it a good going over, if they won't then I would walk away.

Another point, when the body guy inspects it you can take notes and call them back, and that might help you in negotiations on price due to any repairs it needs.

I looked at a car a few years back, and I thought I knew what to look for, I have worked on cars off and on all my life, but the one I looked at 3/4'' thick bondo on the corner of the trunk pan, right out in the open, I didn't see it, I know it was that thick because he measured it.

Until you actually do a body off restoration or you are a body man by trade, you might as well have your grandmother look it over.

We should call these cars antiques instead of muscle cars, because of the age, they have specific problem areas that was never ever related to the original intent of the car.

An average person would probably do quite a bit of research before they spent $15000 on an antique, but, usually you can see almost all of the structure of a regular antique of whatever.

A fourty year old car usually has fourty year old wiring in them, wiring you can't see buried under the carpets, is there rust there, what was replaced before, old wiring in a car is like the old knot and tube they have in some of the older houses, if you don't move it around, it will last forever, remember a car is moving and sometimes that wiring gets frayed, theres a lot of old car fires.

So wheres the rust holes if any, what panels were replaced, a body man can tell by the original spotwelds as a rule, although those can be duplicated, because I have did that myself.

Now lets take a look at the mechanical end of it.

You can listen to it, and drive it, maybe take it someplace and pull a wheel off or a compression check, but doubtfull if any of that will happen, so its a drive and a listen.

Even if it needed a lot of mechanical work, as a rule that would probably cost you quite a bit less then doing major body work.

You probably quit reading this a while back, but, anyway maybe you are or maybe somebody else is still reading, I'll continue.

If I can get one person on here to listen to me its more then I get at home, because my wife sure won't.

Plan two.

Jackstands, flashlight, floorjack, digital camera, and old clothes, add that to the first list the camera and old clothes.

You're going to have to get pictures yourself, you'll get dirt in your hair if you have any, and in your eyes, and this takes some effort to get the right pictures.

Add a magnifying glass and pencil and paper to both lists.

Take your pictures probably about 18'' away plus pictures of both sides of the car from about a distance of three feet from the front and back about a foot off to the side, this will show any body lines or waviness in the panels.

You want pictures as clear as you can of the following.

The very bottom of both rocker panels, the sharp edge, your looking for any bulges or wheres its spreading apart.

A couple pictures of the floor supports under the car, there about 4'' wide and they go from one rocker panel over to the other probably three or four of those, there spotwelded to the floor of the car.

Open the doors and get a picture of the bottom of the door, might have to get a foot away and get it at an angle, not the outside, the very bottom.

If you're setting in the car, and you went outside you would be taking a picture of the bottom of your feet, and then move the camera over a little and get one of that front part of the rocker panel next to your feet.

Open the trunk and get one on each side where the trunk floor touches the inner wheel well and where the body and wheel well come together, than go to the side of the car, stick your head in the trunk just a little, and get one of the back part inside the trunk where the trunk latches.

Back under the car again, get one of each side of the bottom of the car directly behind the back bumper, if you do it right, the bumper will be in half of the picture. You will be looking straight up when you take these pictures.

Now, you'll see the gas tank, and there will be two supports that run from the front of the tank to the back of the tank, 3 or 4'' wide, get a picture of where the front and back of these supports end.

Beside of the gas tank is your frame, get a picture, a little hard to see, but you want the picture to show you where the body of the car actually bolts to the frame, there is a flattened out probably cracked rubber donut between the frame and the body, you don'y have to actually get a picture of the donut, but you're looking for structural rust.

While the trunk is open, get one of the bottom lip of the trunk, if you took your fingers and felt the very inside of the trunk lid thats what you want the picture of.

Back under the car again, where the back tire is, you want a picture of the part of the car that is directly behind the side of the tire, looking from underneath, directly above the axle, there is some metal that is like sandwiched together, its the inner wheel well, you want to see if that spotwelded metal is rusted or starting to spread apart a little.

Take a couple of pictures of the underside of the body where it starts to curve up from the floor pan and starts to go over the axle.

Now, maybe if they aren't looking or there pretty proud of this little gem, they will let you just pull back the corner of the carpet and get a picture of the front and back inside where your feet are, or better between your feet and the outside inside of the car. Did you like that explanation.

Then you can get pictures under the hood, inside the car, dash and headliner, and gauges, then maybe the bumpers .

Get a clear picture of any vin or tags, clear enough so you can read the numbers, if its big bucks matching numbers, then you have to get the engine transmission etc. numbers.

It will probably take a good full day to do this yourself, get everything ready and pictures and all, and a lot of people are not ambitious enough to do it, its work, and you have to be thorough, but if it takes you ten hours including travel time, you might have made $2000 an hour while you were working.

Yes, I'm not kidding, these antique bodies take a lot of money to fix.

If this helps just one person, then it was worth my two hours of two fingered typing.

I'm not going to proof read it, its to long, so you can take it for whats its worth, have a good one, and good luck.

Rob
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"There are questions to be answered, and answers to be questioned"

Chassis, Body Jig, Trunk Pan Pics.
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If there are not any badges on front fender in the picture you posted and now there is, that means he has replaced front fenders. Whjich you probably already know.
Be sure to post pics. The people on here are pretty sharp at picking up on the little things as well as big things to look at before you purchase your dream car.

again good luck.

With that plate, too bad it hasn't got one.

With that plate, too bad it hasn't got one.

Yeah, no kidding. A 396 would be awsome.

The owner told me his father was able to renew or keep the black plate because he had the original Cali title.

i have a quick question, not exactly related to this topic, but kind of close. i have a'68 camaro RS. will it affect anything in any way if i make it an SS clone. if/when i were to sell it, i would disclose that its a clone. would it affect resale at all?

sorry about the thread hijack