Opinions welcome... I just put a nice big inch small block with a TKO 5 speed in the 69 Z ... my power steering unit is now going south on me and want to upgrade as well as upgrade the front stock 69 Z suspension , A arms etc..... any ideas or suggestions ?

cmon somebody post something i want to know too.

A little more information would be helpful. What are your plans for the car? Is it a driver, road racer, weekend cruiser, etc? And of course what is your budget?

One thing that has to be done is fixing the geometry of the front suspension.

One easy thing is the Guldstrand Mod, can be done with stock controlarms.

Next step is new upper arms, there are different models here that will give you more caster.

ATS has new spindles (with C5 components) that fixes the roll center so that you don't need to do the Guldstrand Mod (leaves the subframe intact).

Of course you need stiffer springs and a better adjustable shocks.

The all out multibucks approach is DSE's new subframe that has a completely reworked geometry.

Jan

You might check out Global West as well. They have a nice unit for your ride.

If your looking for a steering gear the 600 box is a real nice upgrade over the stock box. I just finished building my pro-touring car, using all the DSE front end stuff, the new steering gear is so smooth it really does have the feel of a rack, you wont be disappointed.

As far as suspenion upgrades go, theres lots of options and it gets pricey. If you want to keep it simple I imagine a good set of UCA's from DSE or global west will improve the geometry, shocks and a hotchkis sway bar should get you turning the car better than stock.

I am not going to track the car . It is a weekend driver . But I would like it to handle better and for the front end to feel tighter...it wanders a bit right now. I do not want to go the whole subframe route on the car but would be fine with buying whatever is the best stuff to put on the stock subframe... after the big inch small block and keisler 5speed I think the budget is out the window... can't truly appreciate what I just did if the rest of the car/front end doesn't feel tight.

To fix the front geometry the best thing you can do is the ATS spindles. You'll need C5 brakes. Touring-Classics has a kit. Unfortunately you'll need 17" wheels. Then of course a steering box the ATS unit is nice, but expensive. Search 3rd Gen box and you'll get a ton of info.

I am not going to track the car . It is a weekend driver . But I would like it to handle better and for the front end to feel tighter...it wanders a bit right now. I do not want to go the whole subframe route on the car but would be fine with buying whatever is the best stuff to put on the stock subframe... after the big inch small block and keisler 5speed I think the budget is out the window... can't truly appreciate what I just did if the rest of the car/front end doesn't feel tight.
Easiest and most effective (with a bit of an eye on budget) would be the ATS tall spindles, new upper and lower ball joints, Moog "Problem Solver" offset UCA cross shafts, good shocks of your choice, C5 front disk brakes, Delrin/Delalum UCA/LCA bushings, Hotchkis 1.125" hollow sway bar, 3rd generation IROC PS box and rebuild of front steering (idler arm, pitman arm, tie rods, etc.).

Aftermarket control arms won't improve the front end geometry and are mostly a "bling" item. The ATS tall spindles are reported to improve geometry enormously, require no drilling or trimming of the UCA mounts, come with C5 hubs and allow direct bolt on of C5 brakes. Much more expensive than the Guldstrand mod, but more effective and a more elegant solution, IMHO.

Van has no budget. He could always sell a Porche after all....

Agree with what was said above. The ATS spindle are great, but only work with 17" or larger rims and C5 brakes.

If you don't want to go that far, the g/s mod works nearly as well.

Hotchkiss TVS is a good "one buy" system for springs and shocks and sway bar and such.

Van has no budget. He could always sell a Porche after all....



Jim... I just sold the two Coke cars and closed on Friday .. broke my heart to do it but I will never race them again so ........ budget on Camaro parts, you are right , none... but I don;t want to take the front end off the car either.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/ChevyThunder/962%20113/CandyStore/DSC03609.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/ChevyThunder/962%20113/CandyStore/DSC03617.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/ChevyThunder/962%20113/CandyStore/DSC03611.jpg

I had a beautiful reply allmost done and lost it.
Maybe I'll try later...
David

Van, you can do anything you want to the suspension with the front end on, as long as you don't get bored with sitting in the fenderwell crosslegged!

That's too bad about selling those cars... after you worked so hard to get into that last race too (or am I rmembering the wrong car?)

Tell you what... not that I'm an expert, but Mike K followed me down a mountain and said my car handled pretty well... I followed him up one, and his handles GREAT!

G/S mod made a HUGE difference in how the car "feels" It "turns in" better, it hold the line MUCH better. Understeer is pretty much gone, or at least can be made gone with a lil throttle. That and a 1" bar & KYB's and poly are what I have now, along with the thirdgen steering box, which really makes the car feel lots more precise.

This winter will go to Dem-a-lum bushings, and probably better shocks, koni's or bilsteins. Thinking seriously about some fancy arms, I know it's mostly bling, but they'll be off anyway, sooo....

Jeez! then I look at the pics.... I did have the wrong car remmebered, and I really like your living room motif!!!

It sounds to me like you would be happy with a 1" sway bar & KYB shocks. If it wanders you might have worn out parts that need to be addressed. Start with checking ball joints and tie rod ends. Then do a 1" swaybar and good shocks. I bet it will amaze you.

It sounds to me like you would be happy with a 1" sway bar & KYB shocks. If it wanders you might have worn out parts that need to be addressed. Start with checking ball joints and tie rod ends. Then do a 1" swaybar and good shocks. I bet it will amaze you.

That's a good start, but I'd recomend Bilstein shocks over the KYB's.

Use the alignment specs on my web page below.

You can pick and choose items listed below, you don't have to go all the way if you are just playing on the street. The upper arms would be nice though.

Next step would be tubular upper arms for more positive caster.
I imagine you don't want to drill holes in your Z/28 for the Guldstrand mod. Just go with the tubular upper arms from DSE, Global West, or Speed Tech, they will allow the +5 deg positive caster you need to get.

AGR makes a drop in box or talk to ATS about their late model box with rack and pinion type control valve, it sounds great.

If that' s not good enough you can go to taller spindles like the ATS "AFX" spindle, or there is a taller upper balljoint available that helps but not quite as much as the AFX spindle.

Stiffer springs would be next but make sure what level of stiffness you can tolerate. If your tires are not huge, maybe the stock springs are OK.
David

Great info guys.. I think I will start sifting through it and then order parts. I already put new Koni's all the way around . I will also start checking the web site Dave, thanks for posting your info for all of us .

Here's what I'm planning with my 67.

Hotchkis front and rear springs with their bilstein shocks

Hotchkis front sway bar

adjustable tubular upper control arms, extended upper ball joints, outer tie rod ends (from SC&C (www.scandc.com) Mark is awesome to work with). I didn't want to cut my subframe for the g-mod so I'm going with mark's stage 2 kit

3rd gen steering box

touring classics brakes, hybrid kit (Touring Classics (www.touring-classics.com))

Here's my plan:

Speetech UCAs/LCAs with Delrin Bushings
ATS AFX Spindles
GM C5 brakes
Hotchkis front anti sway bar
Hotchkis front coils or ATS coils with landrum style adjusters
275/40/17 tire on all four corners

I already have a 3rd gen steer box.

Here's what I'm planning with my 67.

Hotchkis front and rear springs with their bilstein shocks

Hotchkis front sway bar

adjustable tubular upper control arms, extended upper ball joints, outer tie rod ends (from SC&C (http://www.scandc.com) Mark is awesome to work with). I didn't want to cut my subframe for the g-mod so I'm going with mark's stage 2 kit

3rd gen steering box

touring classics brakes, hybrid kit (Touring Classics (http://www.touring-classics.com))

I have Mark's extended uppers for first and second gen, also the extended tie rod ends for first gen. I've only installed the taller upper balljoints on second gen so far. They are a bit fatter than stock where they go through the A arm. This is no problem on a stock arm but we had Global west arms and had to open the hole up or there was no way it would fit.

I finally met Mark at SEMA earlier this month, a great guy! :)
David

Here's my plan:

Speetech UCAs/LCAs with Delrin Bushings
ATS AFX Spindles
GM C5 brakes
Hotchkis front anti sway bar
Hotchkis front coils or ATS coils with landrum style adjusters
275/40/17 tire on all four corners

I already have a 3rd gen steer box.

I have the Speed Tech upper and lower arms and they look great. There have been some reports of cars sitting a bit lower after using the ST lower arms, so be watchful. You can shim under the lower spring pocket if needed. The ability to rotate the lower spring seat allows a cut spring to seat right with more consistent results. DO NOT put a cut coil end on the bottom, it will cut the polly seat.

I like the landrum adjuster, the only thing I don't like is having to remove it to adjust it.
David

There have been some reports of cars sitting a bit lower after using the ST lower arms, so be watchful. David

Any idea why? Is that poly seat the spring isolator they sell as an option?


I like the landrum adjuster, the only thing I don't like is having to remove it to adjust it.

I heard rumor that the ATS adjuster is adjustable in the car. I'll check in with Tyler.

David, ATS sells a 550 and a 650 lb/in spring, any suggestions/opinions. I'm running Hotchkis rear springs...

Now I'm a little worried since the Hotchkis springs are 2" lower, the AFX spindle is 7/8" lower. Even lower with speedtech lca's. woah.

I like Jody's response in this thread (great pic too!)

JD

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=29518&highlight=buying

I didn't know you had a "Duesy" Van ... :D

Any idea why? Is that poly seat the spring isolator they sell as an option?




I heard rumor that the ATS adjuster is adjustable in the car. I'll check in with Tyler.

David, ATS sells a 550 and a 650 lb/in spring, any suggestions/opinions. I'm running Hotchkis rear springs...

Now I'm a little worried since the Hotchkis springs are 2" lower, the AFX spindle is 7/8" lower. Even lower with speedtech lca's. woah.

The polly seat is standard, works pretty well because you can spin it around to match where the end of the coil sits. It's supposed to be the same depth pocket as a stock arm but CarlC put them on his 67 Camaro and ride height dropped a little. .5" difference on the spring seat could result in 1" ride height change since the coil sits almost in the center of the lower A arm.

ATS used to sell a landrum type adjuster, but they also have coilovers that I just saw at SEMA.
David

I went with GW coil over conversion, Uni-Steer, Hotchis front sway bar, aluminum bushings everywhere and Baer brakes, I'm going to have Tyler redo the front sub as I want his spindles, coil over and a few other mods done right. I think the only reason to go with a differnt sub would be for wider front tires and lots of track use. The sotck sub can be modifed to take wider tires though. Has anyone ever seen a stock front sub frame fail?

I would suggest giving Tyler at ATS a call. They have done an exceptional job on the "stock" subframe for the OLC Camaro. In addition to 'refreshing' the sub itself they worked with me on a spec Lee Engineering PS box, tubular control arms, coil over conversion, ATS spindles, adjustable Penske shocks and good size brakes.

A pic of the sub at SEMA:

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/concept/ATS_sub.jpg

I have some more but can't post them... I'll see what I can do.

What I have that works for me is all hotchkiss front end parts, basicly springs and sway bar. The drop looks great, the stiffness for everyday driving is not harsh and the car handles great. The sway bar is the hotchkiss hollow 1 1/8". I have polly bushings and KYB shocks. My upgrade to this would be del-lum bushings for the upper and lower control arms and bilstien or Koni shocks. Money no object I would go de-lum bsgings on the lower control arms and go with an upper control arm with them already installed from global west, DSE or ST. If I were to upgrade from this I would call tyler at ATS (already have and he is one heck of anice guy) do what ever they recomended if you don't have issues going to a bigger wheel. Your options on a bigger wheel could include going billet ralleys for a stock/perfromance look or steel 17 inch rallys are also an option.

Joe

Joe,
The guys at ATS are terrific.
On our 73 we started out with the Bilstein shocks from Hotchkis. We now have the QA1 shocks because the car was leaning too much due to the soft Bilstein shock valving. They were really nice for the street and mild autocross with street tires, but with the Kumho V710's we put on, the car would "flop" over on corner entry.

The ATS AFX tall spindles are fantastic,especially if you`re already planning on 17"+ wheels and big brakes. Be careful running them with stock upper arms though. They`re a LOT taller than stock and even with offset cross shafts you may be very limited as to what alignment specs you can get out of it,especially if the car is lowered with springs also. The upper ball joints will also be canted fairly hard at ride height and may bind up before you use your full bump travel. Keep a close eye on that because a ball joint or upper arm failure would be a great way to ruin a perfectly good day. ;) They work fine with GW and DSE upper arms (and most others that are shorter than stock and have more rearward ball joint offset for more + caster). We bundle them with our fully adjustable tubular upper arms as StreetComp-AFX.
The G mod is a big help but requires grinding and drilling most would be reluctant to do on a real Z-28. It can also be improved upon with bolt on parts. We`ve developed a number of packages over the years ranging from slightly milder than the G mod to even more aggressive than the AFX tall spindles (which is actually too much of a good thing unless the car is still at stock ride height). All use the stock spindles so you can get most of the benefits and still run 15" Rally wheels if you want or maybe you`ve already got Wilwood or other brakes that you`re happy with that won`t work with the AFX spindles etc. The G mod and our tall balljoint packages both work better with dropped springs but neither require you to drop the car if you don`t want to.
You can get a better understanding of how the 1st gen front end works and what geometry mods do here http://www.scandc.com/suspensionspecs.htm The first mod uses just a taller upper ball joint (slightly less aggressive than G mod) and adj. UCAs for a more performance oriented alignment. The 2nd shows the tall ball joints combined with a variation of the G mod (and tall tie rod ends to correct bumpsteer). The AFX spindles provide comparable geometry to that one but with even less lateral RC migration due in part to their 7/8" of drop. There`s a newer package that`s slightly less aggressive than that but with no G mod. Note how much less body roll there is and how the contact patch of the tires is much flatter on the road surface. No matter which method you use to improve the stock front geometry it`s well worth doing! Mark SC&C

I put a set of those global west tubular upper and lower control arms with the QA1 adjustable coil over shock. I have to say it is pretty nice being able to adjust my ride height. It's really important to me to be able to make the tire sit in just the right spot in the wheel well. I haven’t had a chance to really take it out around any corners and hall a$$ with it to see how it does.

Well I got together with David and ordered a bunch of stuff... it all showed up yesterday. Hotckiss TVS kit and Speed Tech upper and lower control arms. And though my car already has 4 wheel discs they are a stock set up so I went with a Wilwood kit. Unfortuanley the 13" rotors will not clear my TT II's so I had to stay with 12" rotors , but should still be a big improvement over the stock set up... Hope to tackle the job in a few weeks and will report back as to what the differences are..

last bit I would appreciate feedback on.. I am also putting in a new power steering box and while I do this . I want to replace the bushings where the sub attaches to the body.. I have heard solid mounts are too stiff.. should I stick with the stock rubber or are there alternatives to consider?

I went with poly many years ago. If I was to do it again, I would use Global West solid bushings.