...found this on drivers door approximately where cert.label would be affixed..

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/nounou1/DSCF0942.jpg

..the reason i ask is my public vin does not match convin on firewall.Here's my story.I bought a 72Chevelle and the dealer who sold me the car is no longer in biz.The person whom they bought it from(open title)no longer wants to talk to me since i told her about the 2 vins(sounds sketchy right?).I am situated in Canada so i cant pay either a nice cordial visit.I have also posted on NastyZ and Tchevelle.I hope someone can steer me in the right direction.Thank you guys

Whats the VIN # on the title, and what do you mean by "open title?"




If the title vin matches the cars original / hidden VIN, I would feel ok.


If the title matches the numbers you pictured, I would not :)

all the state issued VIN's have the State Seal on them somewhere

The dealer that sold you the car may no longer be in business but he still has legal recource to that car,.. being he sold it under a dealers license that I assume was applied for in his name.....two things here. One jumping a title or selling with a open title is against the law at least here in the US and I'm sure there also..Two...the dealer most likley knew that a state reissued vin would have the state at which the vin was issued affixed to the car and would also be relisted on the title... I would do all in my power to hunt him down you have all legal right to get your cash back or to get it straight... I'm sure a phone call to him would set something straight no dealer wants to here you'll turn him in for a jumped title....Uncle Sam would love to audit someone like this....just let him know that! good luck in your hunt.Tom




In answer to your open title? it is when you sell a car in someone's name that you bought it from...it is done quite often by people all the time honestly it is against the law and the reason being is no paper trail to the seller and the profit he has made on the transaction...most of the time no real big deal just Uncle Sam wants to know whos makin what? you or me do it....most likley never a thought.....when a dealer does it he really puts his license on the line and my not want an audit in fear of hiding other money that he has done the same with....even out of business he in this case would still be in jepardy of income tax evasion, false filing of gov. documents....
I'm sure the state would love to join in on a sales tax issue...since he never transfered the title he never paid sales tax while he had ownership....this would only apply if he claimed he personally owned the car, a dealer has a form when transferring cars for sale that skips his sales tax right when being sold for profit as a business....Tom

I see the same post on another forum in which he says this in CANADA.

Thank you for all your replies.So, it appears its not a state vin.Yes i am in Canada BUT the car was bought from a N.Y. dealer and name on title is from Michigan.Whats weird is i found two build sheets(yes two,both the same and they match convin inside heater box).I wish i could find the frame convin but i dont have resources right now or the smarts to do it myself.I am still trying to locate dealer.I,ve tried to do vin searches on both nbrs but it appears as a private citizen i cant do so in the state of michigan??? I know the shell belongs to the build sheet/convin because of paint code 53(placer gold) in hard to paint places while the rest of the car(exterior)is code 56(cream yellow) to match trim plate.here is a pic i took of the underside of vin.Looks like bottom of rivets were ground down/off and whoever did it didnt bother to repaint it.What a mess..

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/nounou1/DSCF1140.jpg

Anytime I see a messed with the VIN, I run away from it.
Why would someone grind off the rivets?
The VIN plate is gone?
NBRS is ??

Can I see a copy of the build sheet? It should be a broadcast sheet actually.

Thanks! KurtS2@peoplepc.com

ps - 63 is Champagne, there is no 56 code.

Canada...Africa....Thialand...I am sure this is still illegal...someone has done some sort of tampering with the vin.....I don't know what you paid for the car.....but personally I would part it or contact some legal representive to see this through...It seems to me your holding a bad situation in your hands.............I wish ya luck Tom

Anytime I see a messed with the VIN, I run away from it.
Why would someone grind off the rivets?
The VIN plate is gone?
NBRS is ??
that pic shows the underside on the vin..the vin is still there and you cant tell its been tampered if you look at it from the top..nbrs means numbers..sorry!

Can I see a copy of the build sheet? It should be a broadcast sheet actually.

Thanks! KurtS2@peoplepc.com

ps - 63 is Champagne, there is no 56 code.
My car is a 72chevelle..but i can still send sheet if its going to help..

here's the top side of vin..
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/nounou1/DSCF1109.jpg
heres proof the convin matches build/broadcast sheet and NOT public vin..
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/nounou1/DSCF1026.jpg
..thanxs for talking to me guys..

I hope you did not pay a lot of money for this car. That phoney tag says it has a 396 engine so it was put there to con someone into thinking is was a big block car when the build sheet shows a 350 engine. Looks to me like an attempt to defraud and worse yet imported into another county.

It is illegal to tamper with a VIN on a vehicle

If you need someone who can help legally, try this
http://www.dcdlaw.net/carfraud.htm

i contacted the above lawfirm but just cant afford it now.I cant believe someone thought they could get away with this,in this day and age,which leads me to believe it was done 2,3 or more owners ago.I wish someone could steer me in the right direction so 1.whoever did this gets held responsible and 2.i dont stand the risk of having my car confiscated and held in a compound while this thing goes thru the courts and 3.have my car documented one way or the other..i know its a large list:(

:confused: :( :mad:

Anytime a VIN is tampered with, the car must be impounded until the matter is resolved. Contact the NY state AG's office, Bureau of Consumer Protection. You are going to have to have law enforcement involved.

I,m in Canada.i cant afford to haul the car back to NY.Maybe i,ll get a hold of local authorities and maybe they can arrange to hold car on behalf of US authorities???

That VIN plate is not original to the car. If you pry lightly, you will probably separate the glue that is holding it on. I have been investigating car theft and VIN swapping for many years. Even if the dealer is out of business, there is still a bond that he was required to post with the state where he was licensed. It is required to remain in effect for a period of time even after he ceases business. Contact the New York State Police and advise them of the name of the dealer and contact Michigan concerning the conversation you had with the previous owner. As for skipping title, most states allow a dealer to take assignment and then sell it on the same title as long as they fill out the dealer assignment portion.

i cant afford to haul the car back to NY

I would not get caught moving this car.

Here is a link that talks about the VIN tampering
http://www.boss302.com/legal.htm

Illegally removing or altering a vehicle identification number (VIN) or selling or possessing a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part with an altered or removed VIN constitutes a crime in most states. In order to impose liability, state courts normally require a culpable mental state on the part of the defendant in altering or removing a VIN or in possessing a vehicle or vehicle part with an altered or removed VIN. Some states, however, do not require any culpable mental state on the part of the defendant when selling a vehicle or vehicle part with a removed or altered VIN.

That VIN plate is not original to the car. If you pry lightly, you will probably separate the glue that is holding it on. I have been investigating car theft and VIN swapping for many years. Even if the dealer is out of business, there is still a bond that he was required to post with the state where he was licensed. It is required to remain in effect for a period of time even after he ceases business. Contact the New York State Police and advise them of the name of the dealer and contact Michigan concerning the conversation you had with the previous owner. As for skipping title, most states allow a dealer to take assignment and then sell it on the same title as long as they fill out the dealer assignment portion.
thanxs for this reply.Could you please explain what exactly is a bond?

The bond is insurance to conduct titlework after the dealer's screwup, so the buying public does not get screwed!

Thank you Tombo/69X11ss..First piece of good news i,ve heard in a long time.:yes:

That VIN plate is not original to the car. If you pry lightly, you will probably separate the glue that is holding it on. I have been investigating car theft and VIN swapping for many years. Even if the dealer is out of business, there is still a bond that he was required to post with the state where he was licensed. It is required to remain in effect for a period of time even after he ceases business. Contact the New York State Police and advise them of the name of the dealer and contact Michigan concerning the conversation you had with the previous owner. As for skipping title, most states allow a dealer to take assignment and then sell it on the same title as long as they fill out the dealer assignment portion.

correct on the assignment portion but you the new owner still would not get the title with the other persons name....it just gives them the right to not transfer it to their name(the dealers) at that time they would have it transfered to your name...chances are you the buyer would never know the old owners name......something sounded bad here from the start ....you need to hunt that dealer down......this is what I was trying to tell ya from the start.... I'd find him first keep your car to yourself until you can't,.... a call to this dirtball may set it straight....at least for you.......

I know toyboy.I,ve tried every ph.#of these 2 guys that i could get my hands on.I,m running out of ideas/options.Actually i,m down to my last 2 of those.I really do appreciate ALL of you peoples help/opinions..