Hello All,

Here are the facts: I have a 1969 camaro. It was originally a non A/C, small block car. I removed the leaking 21" copper & brass radiator and I'm trying to mount a Big Block Radiator. The BB radiator is an aluminum radiator. It's new and I was told it was made by US Radiator. The brackets are correct. They are exactly the same as a 23" copper & brass Heavy Duty Super Cooling. I know this because I verified the brackets with the 23" Copper & Brass. They look exactly the same.

Herein lies the problems. The passenger side looks like it will mount just fine. I used the existing 1/2" socket head bolts. On the drivers side it's a few inches wider so it won't fit into the pre-existing small holes. I tried using the 1/4 radiator well nuts in the larger holes, but I hate those things!! How the heck do you tighten a screw in a radiator well nut without damaging the rubber on the well nut that the screw goes into!! These well nuts are aggravating. There also does not appear to be anywhere you can mount or push a bolt through the support on the bottom of the drivers side. :sad:

MY QUESTIONS ARE:
1) Do I need to replace the radiator support when trying to mount a big block radiator in a car that was a non A/C small block car? It sure looks that way. There is no hole on the other side to mount either a bolt or a well nut. It doesn't look like the BBC aluminum radiator or the 23" BBC Copper & Brass Factory Radiator will have a hole to mount the bottom of the drivers side into.

2) If the existing radiator support has to be modified on the drivers side bottom, what modifications need to be done?

3) For the love of God, is there anything I can use besides well nuts?

4) If I must use well nuts, how am I supposed to get the well nuts to work?


P.S. Before I forget, the old leaking small block radiator fit nice & flush against the radiator support. The big block radiator does not. It sticks out and looks to be about 2 inches closer to the engine. Is this normal? :confused:


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Thanks!!

All replies are welcome. I'm really confused & frustrated here. :mad:

Man does your pain bring back memories. I trashed that BBC mounting system 25 years ago. I built a tray like 70 and above GM cars and just set my radiator on two rubber biscuits made for that purpose. Then I made a small clamp bracket to locate the top of the radiator. Simple, easy and perfect. Here's a shot of my new aluminum radiator from Griffin. Note that I cut-off the 'reproduction brackets'. Loose those bolts! Not one of GM's better ideas. But at least GM fixed the problem.
http://epitomesrebuild.com/images/138.JPG

The radiator should bolt to the stock locations on the passenger side, and at least on my 68, there is another set of big holes a couple of inches outboard of the small block holes.

Nuttin wrong with wellnuts, they work fine and hold well.

One "strange" thing I noticed was that the screws the repro house sold me to screw into the wellnuts wouldn't, the thread was wrong and they were selftaps and they just got hung up. A couple hardware store screws that threaded in easily fixed that right up.

Jim,
Aren't you running a SBC radiator? Installing and removing a BBC radiator is a bitch using those nuts. Especially with RS stuff in the way.

I bought the wellnuts & screws at D&R classic. I like their products & their service. The well nuts appear to be correct. But man are they a mother to use. The 3/8 " socket head is what the screw is. The well nuts say 1/4" on them. They look to be self tapping as well. Supposedly the well nut is suppose to swell up once the screw passes through. The problem is the screw barely goes in. The drivers side is the problem. The passenger side is fine.

On the drivers side, there are larger holes. The bigger problem I see is a larger hole on the bottom of the drivers side support. The problem is this hole doesn't go all the way through to the other side. I'm frustrated. Looks like I may have to put the small block radiator back in it. This $*cks!!

Ok back to the well nuts, which way do they go? It looks like the thicker round end faces the engine and the round thinner part gets pointed to the front bumper. Is this correct?

I had EXACTLY the same problem, with EXACTLY the same hardware bought from EXACTLY the same source.

The wellnuts will spin in place untill they start to swell, and those selftapping screws just won't go in smoothly enough.

My local Ace Hardware had identical looking screws that were not selftapping that could be spun easilty all the way into the wellnut by hand. I had no problem tightening the well nuts wth these screws. The Ace also had a good selection of rubber well nuts, identical in appearance to the ones supplied by D&R, in a variety of sizes, for about 1/4 th the price.

The wellnuts go into the rad support from the engine side, and are installed blind. There is no access to the front side on the lower drivers side hole, where the reinforcement is, and there doesn't need to be.

ditto on Ace and their wellnuts, I used them for my radiator mounting, went in easily. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the response everyone. The prior owner had some 1/4" screws on the drivers side. I tried one of these in the bottom well nut on the drivers side & it looks like it worked. I'm suprised the one's from D&R would not work. As for the top drivers side I used a 1/2" screw with washers & a nut on the other side. On the passenger side, I used the old screws 1/2" that have a washer type head on them.

Jim, that's one of the few problems I had with that source. The only other one was a washer pump that would not shut off. They took it back, no problems. I'm not worried about the well nuts. They were what $5.00? I'll keep the good ones. It will cost me more in gas to return them.

On another note, I have a regualr cowl hood (not a true cowl hood) just a regular one. I put the cowl insulation kit on it late last night. Fits kind of weird though.

Jim, that's one of the few problems I had with that source. ..

I buy many of my parts from them, have for years, they are great to work with and close enuf to drive to. Problems are very rare, when problems happen they always make it right.

I agree. D&R is great. Funny thing is, I was going through some junk I had in my basement. I found some old photos I had taken of my first 2 Camaro's. I lived in 4 different places since I bought the first one way back in early 1989. My point is I found 2 receipts for around $600 each. I'm like wow, I spent big money back then. Who was the source? You got it, it was D&R and those receipts were dated from late July of 1993.

Now it's 13 years later. And I'm back. For driving purposes I still wish they were in Naperville instead of Warrenville. It's still an easy commute though. During the middle of the day.

Ok an another note, since I used the 23" aluminum radiator from US Radiator (I bought that at D&R too) The current electric fan & upper shround which was fabricated by the prior owner (I think it's out of a mid 1980's Z28) will not work with this radiator. Will a factory big block shroud work? Or do I just go to Summit & Jegs and buy a shround & fan there?

The big block shroud has the fan hole offsett to the pass side, some here have said they've used it successfully with a small block tho.

Another option would be a 68 small block w/ac should. This will fit the radiator and the fan hole is centered in the car, but it is 1" longer than a 69 shroud (short vs long water pump)

Jim,

Funny you mentioned the 1968. Brad over at D&R mentioned to use the 1967-1968 Small Block with A/C radiator hose for my 1969 with the 23" radiator. He was right on the money. The old radiator hose seemed a bit short down by the thermostat housing. The hose he suggested worked great. It seemed a little longer and it was an awesome fit!! Hey the car even looks correct with the GM part # on it. I thought that was cool. I'm not worried about the hose clamps since this is by NO means a show car.

I'll try the 1968 shroud since I would like the fan hole more centered. It's tight under that hood though... The voltage regulator is right up against the radiator and so is the battery tray....I bought a Powermaster 2 prong alternator. But I left the voltage regulator on their anyway. Maybe I should take that V Reg out?

Thanks!!

Greg

Greg -

I may have missed it, but do you have the long water pump or short? If long, you may be better off with the 69 SB with AC shroud. I think the GM part number is 3893814, and it is still available from GM at $80 list. Hopefully someone can confirm that number.

Did you measure the core between the tanks? I think we have the same radiator (mine was a U.S. Radiator aluminum for BB MT, can't remember part number), and I had some trouble with the shroud. The rad core was listed as 23" wide, but it was just over 22 inches between the big weld beads on the tanks. I had to trim the 23 inch BB shroud to get it to fit right, and all the trimming was on the left (driver side). So, somehow in the process of fabricating the rad, it wasn't quite what I expected it to be, position and dimension wise.

If it's the same rad and I can help with more info (pics, easiest way to mount the shroud at the bottom, etc.) let me know.

Hello Eric,

You are correct. I believe the 2 row aluminum from US Radiator is 22 & 1/2 inches. It's a 1969 Camaro. The engine in there now is a 350 small block. Based on the heater control panel, it appears that the car did not come equipped with A/C. I bought the radiator from D&R Classic in Warrenville, IL. They told me that it is made by US Radiator, and so is the 23" 4 core HD SD copper & brass radiator. Funny thing is their book, their website & sales receipt list the aluminum radiator as a 4 row aluminum when it is in fact a 2 row.

I just checked the water pump. It is an Edelbrock aluminum water pump. Looks like the short water pump as well.

FWIW, my old 1969 (first Camaro) did come with factory A/C. That shroud worked good. I found photos of it the other day. Should I use the 1969 shroud with A/C? I believe all the A/C cars in 1969 used the 23" radiator.

Any info to help would be great!!

Thank You!



Greg

If you have the short WP, I think you want the 68 with AC shroud. I think if you used the 69 (which is made for the long WP), the fan wouldn't be in the shroud much if at all. The 68 with AC shroud should still be available from GM too.

For those who hate the well nuts. Give this a try. Go to your local hardware or home inprovement store. Locate some stailess "T" nuts to fit your bolts. Break off the litttle prongs. Use some JB weld or tack weld them in the holes where the well nuts go. Then you have a standard nut/bolt setup for your mounts.

Just my .02