As the snowball rolls...

Since I've pulled my exhaust system to clean and repaint my floors (what this has to do with this year's winter project of disk brakes and new rear end I do not know, just seemed like a good idea at the time, but I digress....)

I need to redo the exhaust. It will be a 2 1/2" system with an x-pipe and Borla mufflers. I'll use a Hotchkiss dropped vert floor brace, and put the X-pipe right under the tailshaft of the TKO. I want the pipes completely up in the tunnel. To do that, the rear pipes need to exit the X-pipe straight back, parallel, and a Total outside edge to outside edge of no more than 8".

So who sells the skinnyest 2 1/2" X-Pipe?

Does anyone know how far apart the pipes are on a C5? Magnaflow makes one specific to C5's that looks really skinny, but they don't say how wide it is.

I have a stainless x-pipe by magnaflow I was going to use , I then changed to 3 inch . I will take some pictures and measurments if you want . It just hangs on My wall .
Mark .

Now I have to ask , what are the advantages of X pipe over H? Flow? Sound? Both? If I do this,, I will need to look for the 2.5 Xpipe,, Dr Gas, Dr Gas, You are needed in the performance section!

what are the advantages of X pipe over H? Flow? Sound? Both?

Not sure if they "really" improved the performance any, but they do change the sound. I'm after a different sound than the ole "flowmaster drone"

Dr Gas has x-pipes with straight legs out the back. I had them bend some pipes so mine would fit better than a regular kit and they are great to deal with. A worthwhile call to make.

They do make more power than the H pipe , not much but horse power is horse power . I also don't get that drone at highway speed that just wears you out , the tremec also helps with this . Jim you will like the Borlas I did a stainless setup on the Dads truck 2.5 and it sounds great . If you lived a bit closer We could do a stainless system in a Weekend and that would give you something else to polish .
Mark .

Haha, something else to polish, you're funny, but...

Another member that I met at dragweek (stainlessDog) has a car that is a twin of mine. He welds stainless for a living, and did a system on his car that is a work of art. As this all progresses, I may be talking to him again. I love to polish! I live for polishing!

I don't own a car that doesn't have a stainless systen now . If you are interested I have that X pipe for sale and I now were it is .
Mark .

Not sure if they "really" improved the performance any, but they do change the sound. I'm after a different sound than the ole "flowmaster drone"

Any advantages for the transverse setup? How does the sound change with an "H" pipe? I am getting rid of my chambered system because I don't like the glasspak sound.

Here are the measurements on the PYPES F-Body X-system

http://www.pypesexhaust.com/rpe631f.jpg

Al what are running for a system on your car , do you still have the brace .
Mark .

Any advantages for the transverse setup? How does the sound change with an "H" pipe? I am getting rid of my chambered system because I don't like the glasspak sound.

This is the question I was thinking of , I have the transverse flowmaster with two flow thru glasspack before the transverse. No droan at all , but do have the H pipe.
The what JimM said about the X pipe right at the Tremac tail shaft bothers me as when you pull trans , do you have to pull Dr Gas also? My H pipes are slip on and IF I had to pull them to pull tremac , which I haven't yet, I may put one of Dr Gas X's on, with a slip on joint. I am using the proformed band clamps so this makes it even easier than using ubolt that makes crimps in tubing.

Al what are running for a system on your car , do you still have the brace .
Mark .

Mark - I'm running the Pypes 2 1/2 "X" system, aluminized, with stainless Magnaflows. I'm also still running the homemade brace that fits up above the exhaust system. I believe you have a similar brace, but as I recall it's a bit purtier than mine. The system tucks up very nicely, with the low point being that blasted driver's side Hooker supercomp header.

Not sure if I really need the brace, now that I have welded in some SFC's, but I figure what the heck - I don't feel like crawling under there to remove it.

I would leave it there Al , it won't hurt . I had the same problem with the header but I fixed it before starting on the exhaust , I cut it apart and made it match the pasenger side . Next winter I'm installing a SpeedTech subframe and front steer rack and then build a set of stainless headers , I hate where that steering box is .
Mark .

To make it easy to drop the system, I have a ball/cone setup in front of the mufflers.

I did close to the same thing Rick I used stainless flanges at the back of the mufflers .
Mark .

Thanks for that diagram, Al. That x-pipe will put the back pipes inside the tunnel then, tho it will take some fancy bending off the headers to get it up there.

What about the borla X mark, how far apart would it put the back pipes to the mufflers. Again, no more than 8" outsde to outside of the pair of pipes to get them into the tunnel.

[QUOTE=JimM;691309]Thanks for that diagram, Al. That x-pipe will put the back pipes inside the tunnel then, tho it will take some fancy bending off the headers to get it up there.[QUOTE]


Jim - No fancy "bending"required, just adjusting the slip-fit pipes the way you want them. In fact, that part is real easy. I have two gripes with the Pypes system:

1. If you look at Mark's pictures, you'll notice how the straight pipes make a little jog to the outsides of the car just forward of the mufflers. This is mainly to give clearance so that the driveshaft isn't too close to the mufflers. The Pypes system just runs the pipes straight back, and the mufflers are so close to the driveshaft that I can't remove it without dropping the system at the rear hangers.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b247/mark69rs/cdb2dbaa.jpg


2. The tail pipes were horrible. (69 straight style). I wound up cutting them and dumping them behind the rear wheel a la '68.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v61/gort69/DSCN3517.jpg

I actually struggle recommending this system, unless you're willing to do a little massaging.

Hi Al , the only part I'm going to change this winter is removing the headers dumps , there the lowest part of the whole car and they pi$$ the wife and I off . We are going on a majore trip next year to Cali and I don't want them rubbing down there . Also Al mine dump the same way yours does I don't like the look of the pipes out past the bumper .
Mark .

Hi Al , the only part I'm going to change this winter is removing the headers dumps , there the lowest part of the whole car and they pi$$ the wife and I off . We are going on a majore trip next year to Cali and I don't want them rubbing down there . Also Al mine dump the same way yours does I don't like the look of the pipes out past the bumper .
Mark .

Isn't great , that the wife is part is a project like this. When you both get involved on the same project as you are describing Mark. You can truly say that she is just as much part of that car as you are. Don't find many like this. :thumbsup:

I totaly agree Don , this car is in Sandra's name and She drives it , and everyday those dumps rub the pavement I here about it . I do miss driving the right now can't wait till spring .
Mark .

Im running the pypes 2.5" x on my 69. My car is low with 3" DSE springs out back and 26" rear tires. The kit tucks up sweet unlike their 3" kit. But the rear legs do come out straight like BPOS said in the prior reply. I had my local exhaust guy put a slight bend in the rear legs and it worked great. From a side profile you cannot see the exhaust at all. Its that TUCKED up. Price on the kit is sweet as well. Good luck!

Trans removal
Mine is a custom H 2 1/2" welded system...
I drop from the Rams horns, and have a 3 bolt flange just after where the pipes level out...then the H pipe
Un bolt the flanges, and the hangers and the whole system drops on the ground...
The car hast to be on a hooist or the front jacked up high to slide the tail pipe section over the diff, forwards.

Mark -- beautiful car and excellent work underneath it. I hope you don't mind, but I downloaded a few of your pics to use as a template when I do mine this winter.

Where did you get your headers? I am particularly interested in your headers since I am running that same CV Products oil pan. Can the drivers side header be removed from the top? I am starting to build my own and would like to build them so the drivers side can come out the top.

Also, FYI guys, this is what I plan to use for collector flanges and also after the muffler to allow me to quickly/easily disconnect the system. These are also availble in stainless but they are too expensive for me in SS LOL

http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/800/880/880-30242.jpg

Thanks Eric , you can use all the pictures you need . I just had my brotherinlaw lazer cut out standard 3 inch flanges , I use the copper gaskets and can reuse them over and over again .
Mark .

I usta work in a custom bending shop, and we always recommended against X pipes because the flow can block the flow of the opposite pipe by not traveling in the same direction. Think of it as two fans perpendicular... the flow of one will push the flow of the other. We always recommended H pipes or A pipes. Seemed like reasonable explanation to me...

I need to read to the end Eric , My headers are 2131 hooker supercomps that I modified . We took them apart and raised them a pinch so they looked correct . And no they will not come out from the top without removing the steering box . Next winter I'm changing to a speed tech subframe with front steer rack , I will then build a new set of stainless step headers and be done with it .
Mark .

Eric, that's not fair posting those pictures of those cool clamps and not telling me what they are or where to get them!!!

Jim, I have two Dr gas X's on two different vehicles, my 68 rs and my 5 liter ragtop, and I love them. I have yet to see a single system compare remotely to the quality of DR Gas stuff, it is well worth the money spent IMO. In fact, my mustang has had one on it for 10 years probably, and it's still in great shape.
Give them a call, they literally have hundreds of options and can make others no doubt.
I found this pic on thier site in fact, sounds kind of like what you are looking for,
http://drgas.com/store/files/master/product_images/thumbnails/j25c_small.jpg
Again, I have no stock in Dr Gas ( ;) ), I'm just very pleased with the product, and the tech support.

Jim those flanges are very close to what they use on Detriot diesel 8V92-T for turbo models , they use them on the pipes going from the manifolds to the turbo , you can get them at heavy equipment places .
Mark .

Eric, that's not fair posting those pictures of those cool clamps and not telling me what they are or where to get them!!!

LOL -- sorry Jim. The 3" clamp is turbonetics part number 880-30242 available at Jegs for $43.99. The 2.5" version is part number 880-30232. Dynomax and Stainless Works also carries these in stainless versions, but they are $80-90 for the clamp and weld rings.

Thanks for the header info Mark. I was hoping that route on the primary tubes worked for removal from the top. I'll figure something out, I still have 3 or 4 more months to play around with the welder in the garage . . . .

Jim, I have two Dr gas X's on two different vehicles, my 68 rs and my 5 liter ragtop, and I love them. I have yet to see a single system compare remotely to the quality of DR Gas stuff, it is well worth the money spent IMO. In fact, my mustang has had one on it for 10 years probably, and it's still in great shape.
Give them a call, they literally have hundreds of options and can make others no doubt.
I found this pic on thier site in fact, sounds kind of like what you are looking for,
http://drgas.com/store/files/master/product_images/thumbnails/j25c_small.jpg
Again, I have no stock in Dr Gas ( ;) ), I'm just very pleased with the product, and the tech support.

Thanks Sean, that is the one I need, the straight back outlets are very close together, and the 45 degree inlets will let me tuck it right up under the tailshaft of the TKO, out of the way of the driveshaft!

Ordering....

OUCH!!! TWO HUNDRED AND SIXTY NINE CLAMS, and it's not even Stainless?

I tihnk I need to buy some stock in Dr. Gas before I buy it. It is perfect for the application tho.

I plan to make my own Jim ;) Two 90* three inch dia elbows is all you need . . . well some patience with an angle grinder and the MIG. :D

Maybe Stainless Dog could hook you up?

Just use the standard flanges , make them out of steel .

OUCH!!! TWO HUNDRED AND SIXTY NINE CLAMS, and it's not even Stainless?

I tihnk I need to buy some stock in Dr. Gas before I buy it. It is perfect for the application tho.

Glad I could help Jim :thumbsup: .
I know they are steep, but they make the perfect part for every application it seems (check out how trick some of the flat oval X's and such NASCAR pieces are that they have on thier site).
I have been tempted to buy others too, but seriously the quality is apparent when you look at the piece. It seems easy enough to make your own, but I've seen a few of the other manufacturers parts, and some custom made ones and they all vary some, and just don't look the same as DR. Gas' part. I have two different kits, same type of X about 10 years apart and they look identical. For some reason even the best custom pieces I've seen look/fit odd, pretty sure its all custom built by DR. Gas, not just a couple 45*'s welded together. Its just one of those instances where I figure the extra coin is well worth it.
Oh by the way, when you talk to them let them know I'll take my payment for sales commission in parts :D ;)

Those clamps are called Marmon clamps. We use them at work. I bet we don't pay that kind of money for them, and all we use is stainless.
Chris

Chris, do you have a "second source" for Marmon clamps ???

Chris, do you have a "second source" for Marmon clamps ???
I'm sure chris will reply, but I can tell you those clamps are common on big rig exhaust systems - they use them to clamp the down tube to the turbo, they should be available in many sizes.
ps - for the record I have run every type of muffler/H/X pipe combo with my 3" exhaust, and I can say that I really dont like the sound of an X pipe it takes the low mean rumble out, and replaces it with a harsh, shrill, high pitches scream, the engine sounds like its reving alot more than it really is. And in my experience the X did not remove the drone from a flowmaster at those low-rpm,- "not quite on the cam" type of situations.
the H pipe setup with a crosover tube a bit smaller than the main exhaust pipes, seems to be the best overall in my opinion.......but you know what they say about opinions. haha

Well my .02 cents worth is I installed a stainless works ehaust system for my 69 with headers. They make a very nice X pipe and I used their 3 chamber mufflers. What a great sound and tight system.. Give Scott a call at Stainless 1-800-878- 3635:hurray:

Jim, I have two Dr gas X's on two different vehicles, my 68 rs and my 5 liter ragtop, and I love them. I have yet to see a single system compare remotely to the quality of DR Gas stuff, it is well worth the money spent IMO. In fact, my mustang has had one on it for 10 years probably, and it's still in great shape.
Give them a call, they literally have hundreds of options and can make others no doubt.
I found this pic on thier site in fact, sounds kind of like what you are looking for,
http://drgas.com/store/files/master/product_images/thumbnails/j25c_small.jpg
Again, I have no stock in Dr Gas ( ;) ), I'm just very pleased with the product, and the tech support.

Care should be exercised when using this configuration. Driveshaft removal may prove difficult.

I'm going to agree with Sean and also recommend the DR. Gas stuff. I have used it for years, and have installed about 5 or 6 systems now. In fact I'll be doing another one on a prety bad ass 55 Chev after the first of the year.
I guess I'm loyal to them because he invented the things, and everything else is just a copy.
I installed the Pypes setup on BPOS's Camaro, but I honestly don't remember how hard it was. The tunnel brace was probably what was the biggest pain. The Dr. Gas stuff is more of a DIY kit, so you can modify things quite easily. I have a 3.5" system under my Nova, and you can't see it from the side. Tucked up quite well.
BTW, Al's Camaro sounds very good! Although some folks don't like the X sound, I have loved it from the start. Of course big Rat motors don't sound in any way like an Indy car!
As far as quiet, I suppose that's relative. But my Nova measures 91dB at full song at the track, which is actually pretty quiet. But follow behind me on the freeway, and it's far from silent.

So does winter suck or what?

Ron

Eric 68,
When I get back to work I'll find out where we get the clamps, and prices. Will also check available sizes.

Thanks Chris :)