I got a new moroso 7qt oil pan 20190 and I also received one of there oil pumps with the pick up already welded on to fit this pan 70-22125 from jegs. After some research about the melling oil pumps I believe this new pump I have is one of the newer thinner casting. The box did not mention not to use in a high performance application. Hopefully this spring, I plan on pulling my engine and installing a trickflow 420 hp kit. I'm plannning to reuse my cast crank if it good shape and I might upgrade the rods and pistons to forged scat rods and srp pistons. This is a street car but will see 6100 redline once in a while. Will this oil pump be ok? I don't know which oil pump is in the 350 now, but I'm beginning to think I'd be better off just buying a new pickup for my old pump.

I wouldn't give it a second thought. It is a quality part, properly fabricated and inspected. I have used them for years without a problem. Melling would be my second choice as that is the part GM uses in all of their motors (your current stock pump).

Larger Dave

You have to mention you want the Mellings "Select" pump.

Every Moroso oil pump I have seen is a top quality part.

I would contact them and ask about your specific model.

I read a posting from Moroso on a corvette forum and they stated that melling supplies their pumps and they have been using the weaker casting for the last 8-9 months but have no reported problems like melling does. They basically said they were fine for stock or mild performance applications. I guess the question is what exactly is a mild performance application.

I wouldn't give it a second thought. It is a quality part, properly fabricated and inspected. I have used them for years without a problem. Melling would be my second choice as that is the part GM uses in all of their motors (your current stock pump).

Larger Dave

Unfortunately Moroso gets their pumps from Melling and it's already been documented that some are the thin weak casting. I believe Mike Lewis had some on the shelf.

I personally would not use it if it's the weak casting.

Jody

The new street Melling pump is not a quality part. Autozone had been paying melling pumps at $13.00 each. A-Zone told them they found a better deal at $6.00 a pump. So decrease the cost, Melling made the changes. The new Melling pump has been known to seize in applications where the engine is being turned more than 5500 RPM. The Melling Select Pump is for use in engines that are going to be turned in excess of 5500. Melling Pump 10778c is the High Volume pump. The shaft has been extended into the cover for better support. The relief valve has a screw in plug. This pump requires a special screw in screen. This pump is used in racing applications which is good at anytime. HV- M55 and HV-M77 are the pumps that many are having troubles with. Myself I use a dry-sump or an external pump. If I were to use a wet-sump Dyna-Gear would be my choice.

I have a related question because the Melling 'select' pumps use a new style bolt-on pickup. I have a Melling 10552 pump and a Moroso 8.25" deep pan and need to use the appropriate pickup, but Moroso doesn't make a pickup for the new 10552/10555 'select' pumps. Do the old press fit pickups still fit?

Be sure to buy/install the oil pump baffle fitting between the pump and main bearing cap.

I have no problem with my Moroso pan. I do suggest to paint with Imron paint for durability.

An assembly hint: Be sure to install and wire into place the driver side header before dropping engine into place. Once the Moroso oil pan is on, you will have to lift the engine again and shove it over to the passenger side to install header from the bottom if left out.

Guys here again is the email I sent to Mellings inquiring about the pump changes and the reply from their world wide sales department:

Subject: Melling M55 Oil Pumps

Hello,

As a Chevrolet small block enthusiast I am very concerned that your pump, which has been widely accepted as the standard for high performance and general use small block Chevrolets for decades, was recently redesigned due a request from Chevrolet. Is it true that you reduced the pump body thickness. As you can see these pumps are no longer fit for use in performance applications, nor would I use one in a daily driver rebuild if in fact the claims are true.

If I have been misinformed I'd appreciate hearing from Mellings. If in fact you did reduce the pump body to the extent that they are now subject to breakage can you tell me if you still produce a higher quality product like the M55A in a heavy body casting that you produced and I have come to depend on for decades?

I hope this is not true and you still are building the best small block Chevrolet oil pump on the market.

Thank you for you time.


Mellings response:
This pump was redesigned for GM at there request.
This pump matches the pump they use in there production engines and sell in there service line.
In the early 90s Melling started producing performance pumps known today as our Melling Select Line.
These pumps are of the old design with other positive features.
We have for some time included caution sheets in the new design pumps stating that they are not recommended for performance use.
Yes we still build the best small block pump on the market.
The 10553 pump replaces the M-55A
Thank you
George.


Guys the key thing to remember is Mellings really messed with us by using the old part number of pumps we've come to rely on for this new weaker line of pumps that they admit are not for high performance applications. They then turned around and continued to produce the high quality pumps we've all used in the past, BUT assigned them new part numbers. This is where the confusion comes in. Don't use the old M55 part number in any varieity -A, -HV, -U. You want to use the new select line1055X, where the X will be a 2 or 3 or whatever depending on standard/standard, standard volume/high pressure, high volume/standard pressure.

Moroso however has never answered my emails regarding how they continue to sell blueprinted pumps using the new weaker Mellings casting. If I were buying a Moroso blueprinted pump I'd EXPECT the best casting from Melling and not the new weaker one. It would be nice if Moroso would explain how to get one of these.

Dave

Well I sent another email to Moroso tech team asking how I can get the Melling Select Line pump in their blue printed version. I also again asked them why they continue to blue print and sell the new weaker pump despite Mellings advice that it is not for performance use.

We'll see if they respond this time.

Is the stock GM pan depth the same depth as the 7qt moroso 20190 oil pan? If so I'll just reuse my oil pump and pickup. My engine was rebuilt before I bought the car 3 years ago so hopefully it should have the good thick casting pump.

No, 20190 is an inch deeper than stock.

Thanks Everett. Hopefully the pickup is not welded on and I can buy a new pickup.

Just an FYI for those looking for a reasonably priced oil pump it appears Milodon has their own casting; much stronger around the bolt area and retails in the $35. area. Saw an ad in Hot Rod for one.

Jody

OE pumps have the pick-up tube pressed in place. I had no problem seating the new Moroso pickup tube onto the pump plate.

Remove the plate from the pump, clamp into a vice with a rag wrapped around it, place new pickup tube into bore, use a 5/8 open end wrench and a BFH to seat. When the additional bolt on support bracket is aligned with the pump bolt bolt hole, you're in! Assemble pump.

You can use a mound of clay on the screen and set pan onto block and remove pan to see thickness of clay to see clearance between pickup and pan. Half inch clearance is good.

For anyone interested with a Moroso oil pump this is what I received from them.

From: "Moroso Tech Service" <techhelp@moroso.com> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 16:47:02 -0500

We have never had one of the new castings fail, nor has any of our
engine
builder accounts.
Therefore, I would recommend using any of our Melling based pump in
your
application.

Good luck with your project,

Moroso Tech Service

----- Original Message -----
From: <DenRS
To: <techhelp@moroso.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 2:25 PM
Subject: Question


> I recently received a 7qt 20190 oil pan and a Moroso standard volume
oil
pumps with the pickup already welded to it for a SB chevy as a gift.
I've
heard the new oil pumps that you use are supplied from Melling. I also
heard that they have been using a weaker casting since 2004 which could
break. Melling cautioned using them in high performance applications.
I'm
building a 450 hp small block for the street and I want to know if this
oil
pump will hold up.
>
> Thank you

Denrs thanks for sharing that. I've twice emailed Moroso and they seem to ignore the question. Not sure at this point that I want to continue using their equipment if this is the way they respond to customers.

Anyway Melling still does not recommend using the new casting in any performance application. So I'd say Moroso is playing the odds until they deplete their stock, not wanting to admit a mistake.

If I had one already installed I wouldn't sweat it. But since I'm currently building another motor, I'll look somewhere other than Moroso.

Here's another reply by Rick Moroso

Ok, here is the deal on our pumps.

We have two cast pumps that use the M-Select heavy-duty castings. They are p/n 22138, and 22139. They are both meant for 8 1/4 inch deep pans. ALL our other cast pumps use Melling’s fairly new "lightened" casting.

We have been selling the "lightened" casting for approximately 8-9 months. We fortunately have not had any failures that we have been made aware of.

We are working with Melling now to come out with a Moroso branded pump that will replace all our "lightened" housing pumps with a better, stronger casting. That is in the works, but will not be done for a few months.

I am very sorry for the confusion. Doug got some bad info at first, and in the effort of trying to put everyone at ease, posted it before we caught the mistake. We are doing our best to get it all straightened out.

For street and MILD performance, I would have no worries running any of our pumps. For racing and hard-core apps, I would use our 22138 or 22139 pumps, or any of our billet pumps.

Thanks

Rick

Here's another reply by Rick Moroso

Ok, here is the deal on our pumps.

We have two cast pumps that use the M-Select heavy-duty castings. They are p/n 22138, and 22139. They are both meant for 8 1/4 inch deep pans. ALL our other cast pumps use Melling’s fairly new "lightened" casting.

We have been selling the "lightened" casting for approximately 8-9 months. We fortunately have not had any failures that we have been made aware of.

We are working with Melling now to come out with a Moroso branded pump that will replace all our "lightened" housing pumps with a better, stronger casting. That is in the works, but will not be done for a few months.

I am very sorry for the confusion. Doug got some bad info at first, and in the effort of trying to put everyone at ease, posted it before we caught the mistake. We are doing our best to get it all straightened out.

For street and MILD performance, I would have no worries running any of our pumps. For racing and hard-core apps, I would use our 22138 or 22139 pumps, or any of our billet pumps.

Thanks

Rick



they're probably doing that because Milodon has their own heavy duty casting that retails for $35 or so.

Jody

I'm not sold on that price.If you look up the price of their high pressure/high volume pump it's slightly lower in price than the Melling by what, 2-3 bucks.
But if you look at the Milodon standard pressure/std volume it's 35 bucks.Problem is that nobody has them in stock yet.I'm guessing that the price will shoot up as soon as they do.