Hi Guys,

I'll be rebuilding the 396 in my 68 and I'd be interested to know what recommendations you guys might have. My inital idea was a mild cam, balancing and porting. I want it to look original from the outside and that includes keeping the quadrajet, exhaust and inlet manifolds.

Thanks in advance, MJ

Buy a 454 short block out of a pick-up truck, slip in a 375 horse knock-off hydraulic roller cam with 240°/250° @ 0.050" duration, and 0.575"/0.604" lift on 110° LSA and keep your existing heads, intake and carb.

Look like original 396... ?

http://mysite.verizon.net/resudxhw/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/67ss1.jpg.w300h225.jpg

468 BBC, 547 HP, 456 RWHP, now has MSD Distributor

Hi Dave,

I should have mentioned I'm in Australia. What would a decent 454 short cost in the US?

What sort of HP would that config give me.

Thanks, MJ

454 engines are in about 20% of all one ton trucks here. Price varies by condition, but a good core sells for about $600 here complete and running less accessories. Will be a high mileage tow truck, or out of a church bus, cast crank but will have hydraulic roller cam installed. Heavier duty trucks have steel cranks, forged rods and four bolt mains but no hydraulic rollers on their dismal truck only cams.

Hi Dave,

How would I get a Steel Crank 454 with the forged rods and four bolt mains? And how much could I expect to pay for one?

Thanks for your advice.

MJ

The forged parts are in medium duty trucks (dump trucks, school busses) the light duty stuff is in one ton trucks (tow trucks, campers).

You are better off going for the hydraulic roller cam and cast crank from the light duty truck; because in America they no longer refine oil to support a flat tappet cam. Starting today in the year 2007, the EPA has outlawed the last remnants of phosphorous and zinc metal necessary to lubricate a flat tappet cam. Unless you do like I do, and buy a retro fit hydraulic roller for all of your former flat tappet hydraulic cams you will not be happy with a wiped lobe on a cam.


Larger Dave

If you were to completely blueprint a 396/325 you can make upwards of 540 hp with a blueprint cam used in stocker racing! There are many a engine builder out there that are having no problems with cam break in on a solid lifter cam. You can use a weaker spring or use a rocker that has only a 1.2 ratio. A cast crank is ok for a street application if you keep the rpm around 6500-6800!A cast crank is lighter than a steel one. Anytime you can reduce the weight of the rotating assembly it is a big plus. I know of one 396/375 that makes just under 700 hp in stock class. As a matter of fact the engine is in a 1970 Camaro and holds the record at 9.98@130.40. Use GM's EOS and you will not have a problem breaking in a new cam. By the way there was also a 366 cubic inch BBC engine used in some heavy duty truck applications.

Even a properly broken in cam still needs to be lubricated. Just like Ford used to once upon a time use arsenic in their hypoid gear lube to lubricate the metal on metal under pressure meshing of gears they were forced to remove it and change their gear lube. All of the major manufactures and refiners of oil used to use (as of yesterday) Zinc metal and Phosphorous metal to lubricate flat tappet cam lobes. That former 0.08% DZZP content is now illegal, and it's gone, never to come back. Is your flat tappet gone yet? Without proper lubrication it soon will be. EOS is great it has 1.5% DZZP but it isn't recommended for extended use. You have to change with the times and flat tappets are gone unless you use racing oil (which is a violation of the licensing agreement that states for off road use only) because of EPA regulations.

For that reason I recommend people bite the bullet and buy a roller cam.

Please!!! What,some law enforcement official is going to take a sample of your oil to see if it is lawful....lol If you have a well prepped hi-po engine you should be using a racing oil anyway!

No frank there is no oil police. There is also no racing oil on the shelf at WalMart, K-Mart, the corner convenience store, and a lot of auto parts stores on any regular basis. No 15 minute oil change place stocks it because their customer's drive in and it would be illegal (as they will have to pay a fine, not you) to sell it for a car that drove in for an oil change. So there really isn't a real need for an oil police.

Up until last year you could get DZZP in diesel oils but EPA laws say that they have to come off the street. All diesel engines have to meet new particulate standards, be equipped with catalytic converters and limit emissions of sulfur. Welcome to 2007.

I dont shop at Wal-Mart or K-mart! I dont patronize or support communism.`The thing with Sulfur in Diesel has been going on for over 15 years nothing new there! A boat doesnt have a catalytic converter. It doesnt take much time to find who your local oil distributor is and buy the correct oil for your application from them. There are several auto parts stores that you can buy racing oil from. Maybe not AutoZone and the chain stores.Red Line has a website...www.redlineoil.com,Royal Purple 866-769-3509 and I am sure all the other major brands that produce racing oil will be more than happy to take your bucks!If I remember correctly I believe Steve Schmidt sells racing oil. It can be found very easily. By the way there are alot of guys using Shell Rotella oil with solid lifter cams with no problems! That oil can be bought at any truck stops.

So you guys still at it? Last time I viewed this one it was noon. Which one of you work for an oil company? Thought so. Why not ask one like I did and get an answer. I guess all flat tappet cams are going bad in a week or so?:boring:

I guess tronic72 was not expecting much of a dialogue anyway.

So you guys still at it? Last time I viewed this one it was noon. Which one of you work for an oil company? Thought so. Why not ask one like I did and get an answer. I guess all flat tappet cams are going bad in a week or so?:boring:

I guess tronic72 was not expecting much of a dialogue anyway.


what would you recommend? roller cam?

Look, we will still be able to buy zinc containing oils, but it will be illegal to run the stuff in a new cat. equipped engine be it a gas or a diesel.

That said, Good old EOS isn't going away soon and STP has a zinc-rich lube too as do a couple of others!!

AND I honestly believe that no more than a half a half pint of "NEET" Soy Bio-diesel added on top of a four or five quart oil and filter change will add enough lubricity back into ALL oils that zinc content will eventually become a mute point!!

They are already using the stuff at like the 1-percent level in ultra-low sulfur gas and diesel fuel to protect our engines due to the lack of the lubricity that sulfur imparted to fuels!! Especially diesel pumps big-time!!

pdq67

PS., AND I'm going to really wake up the DEAD and say that it has been said that there MAY be a case against synthetics being too slick and causing roller-lifter cams lifters to skip on the lobes and thus chatter b/c the darn stuff doesn't create enough supposed "Friction" so that these elements interact/(i.e., roll) right against one another!!

Chew on this for a bit AND I have always elluded that this might be happening!!

The biggest problem with any valve train is keeping the correct spring pressure!This is something that is grossly looked over!! Who is reading and commenting on this thread that they actually set their valve springs to the height the manufactuer calls for? I have not read one post where a person has done so. Also does anyone from time to time actually check the spring pressure? I dont mean with one of those cheap 60 buck ones from Moroso. LSM makes a very adquete spring tester while the spring is still on the engine. If you have enough pressure the type of oil you use dont mean squat!!! Think about it!

what would you recommend? roller cam?

I don't build engines. I just objected to these two bickering and the poster was not helped, much. I guess many new engines are roller cams. Probably because they have to be hi-tech to use 5-30 oil to squeak out every MPG they can and get every HP they can out of 350 CI.

Personally, I think the oil companies are commiting suicide if they let flat tappet cams die. Can anyone say class action law suit. I talked to Valvoline about this topic when I started reading about it. They assured me (ok I am aware of sales BS) that their oil would not leave flat tappet cams unlubricated.

I don't think we can class action a federally mandated requirement to remove zinc from oils..

Now if it was done by Technical Support Guideline's suggested by the fed's that the oil companies do it and they did, then just maybe a class action law suit would hold up b/c, then the suggestion isn't law b/c it hasn't went through a real public process!

But I may be wrong.......

pdq67

I don't think we can class action a federally mandated requirement to remove zinc from oils..

Now if it was done by Technical Support Guideline's suggested by the fed's that the oil companies do it and they did, then just maybe a class action law suit would hold up b/c, then the suggestion isn't law b/c it hasn't went through a real public process!

But I may be wrong.......

pdq67

You are most likely correct. My only point is that I doubt that oil companies would allow mass failures of engines.:beers:

Hi Guys,

I'll be rebuilding the 396 in my 68 and I'd be interested to know what recommendations you guys might have. My inital idea was a mild cam, balancing and porting. I want it to look original from the outside and that includes keeping the quadrajet, exhaust and inlet manifolds.

Thanks in advance, MJ
TClovis (Tony) just had his 396 built. It is I believe about 10:1 SCR and uses a 396/375 hydraulic cam. It sounds like a muscle car should. You might PM him to get all the particulars. Scroll down and see his engine.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2380760