I've read alot about what people have tried for front subframes, but has anyone tried or looked at the differnces in using a 75-79 Nova subframe in a first gen Camaro?. It seems that this sub should be relatively close in design to the Camaros. Just a though. I don't know if the 75-79's are different from the 68-74's or not.

I think they are very different :thumbsup:

I have heard that the newer Nova's used a 2nd gen. Camaro subframe. (A forward steer type system.) This would be too wide for a 1st gen. Camaro.
I may be off base here... I'm not positive.

some say it's not too hard to make it work, and that the better suspension geometry and easily adapted 12" factory Caprice big brakes makes it worthwhile.
but i've never seen the 2 different frames side by side.
i do know that there was a car- either a 67-69 Camaro or 68-72 Nova, i can't recall- in some magazine in the last couple of years that had a newer subframe in it, and the article said it was a relatively easy swap.

Yeah, but why?

Front steer, bigger factory disc brakes, better front roll center!!

For starters..

I have a copy of the mag that has the article in it. A guy from Independence, MO did it!

pdq67

Again, yet another reason why good original car prices will only continue to climb. Where the heck do you guys have the opportunity to worry about cornering, braking etc.

As far as I know, history shows the US made muscle cars were great on HP and very low on braking! Big mistake, yes ! But in the name of preservation, why would anyone consider converting a car to this system, albeit better for the driver? Just my opinion!

they bolt completely different. camaro subframe bolts at the connector and the nova bolts right under the firewall.

Again, yet another reason why good original car prices will only continue to climb. Where the heck do you guys have the opportunity to worry about cornering, braking etc.

As far as I know, history shows the US made muscle cars were great on HP and very low on braking! Big mistake, yes ! But in the name of preservation, why would anyone consider converting a car to this system, albeit better for the driver? Just my opinion!

It's called hot rodding.:yes:

Again, yet another reason why good original car prices will only continue to climb. Where the heck do you guys have the opportunity to worry about cornering, braking etc.

As far as I know, history shows the US made muscle cars were great on HP and very low on braking! Big mistake, yes ! But in the name of preservation, why would anyone consider converting a car to this system, albeit better for the driver? Just my opinion!Stopping rules. :cool:

Again, yet another reason why good original car prices will only continue to climb. Where the heck do you guys have the opportunity to worry about cornering, braking etc.

As far as I know, history shows the US made muscle cars were great on HP and very low on braking! Big mistake, yes ! But in the name of preservation, why would anyone consider converting a car to this system, albeit better for the driver? Just my opinion!
Boy....I think I'm gonna have to agree with you there!!! Having all my big block weight on those front tires with no power steering and a huge stopping distance, followed by a stout pressure plate, I don't have to worry about my wife taking her friends out for a ride when I'm not around!!!

Makes it hard for my kids to joy ride too.........

I will have to say though, recovering from one of those shifts where you are now looking at the curb is easier with power steering.

Yeah, but you can fit power steering, power front disc brakes and even aluminum heads if you wanted to, without modifying anything or buying a non-GM (or GM repro) part..
It's what I did and mine and my Aluminum headed BBC with PS and Delco Moraines pull up just fantastic.

It doesn't mean you have to go into huge modifications of fitting a subframe from a different car which would be more effort, expense and less resale.
Hey, just my opinion.. But if you want a car to handle like a Ferrari, go and buy a Corvette!:p

the one thing a lot of the resto crowd forgets is that the first gen cars might have been good for the day, but they are kinda crappy from a suspension standpoint.
the second gens were light years ahead of them.
when they engineered the second gen, they essentially put in all the stuff that the hardcore guys had already done to their first gens- bigger brakes, taller spindles, less bumpsteer, etc.
all you that wonder why people do these things, just go drive one that has an improved suspension and brakes in it, then go back and drive your stocker. odds are that you'd be on here asking what you'd need to do to make your car handle and stop like that..

Hey, just my opinion.. But if you want a car to handle like a Ferrari, go and buy a Corvette!:p

Not anymore. Art Morrison's '55 posted better numbers than a Ferrari AND a Corvette. And these are real numbers from Primedia!

This industry has advanced enough to make a '60s Turdbox handle better than a $100K sports car. Sure, it wont have all the nice amenities and fancy leather, but it'll run like a bat outta hell. Those ill-handling days are over.

I remember very well having to downshift at SPEED and head for the shoulder as I was standing on my brakes while my slappers were reverse slapping and my rearend was hopping up and down to haul my 4-wheel drum car down FAST!!

Talk about scarey, all while the wife was screaming for me to stop, stop, stop, You gonna hit him!!!!

As I was doing everything except opening up the drivers door and dragging my foot along to help slow her down..

I finally bit the bullet and "restified" my car! NOT "restore" it, b/c it was fine before I started just like stock.. No more tho..

pdq67

Not anymore. Art Morrison's '55 posted better numbers than a Ferrari AND a Corvette. And these are real numbers from Primedia!

yeah, those numbers have to be objective.
after all, what would a big automotive magazine conglomerate have to gain by saying that one of their bigger advertiser's product is the best thing since sliced bread?

And to top that off, there were two back to back articles in onna the mags years ago called "Knuckle Sandwich" and "Knuckle Sandwich II" where they took a '65 or '66 GTO and did an H-O Racing Suspension mod to and it stayed with the new 'Vette's of the day!!

And it was said that the biggest improvement was modern wheels and tires!!

pdq67

I see that one of the biggest questions is why. Well how about this, the late Nova subframes are alot easier to find here. I've only seen a couple of first gen sub's here and they're worse than mine. The sub in my 69 'Bird is bent (the car was in an accident that actually ripped the control arms off at one time). It was "repaired", but since I've owned the car, we can't get it straight enough to align. Then I'd have how much in a disc conversion? Where I can buy a complete 77-79 Nova for less than the disc conversion and have better steering/suspension geometry as a bonus. Plus I can make a set of tires last more than a couple of months and finally strt driving this car again. I know these cars are getting pricey, but if you're looking at these cars as an investment, then you're in the wrong hobby. I feel that this hobby should be because you love these cars, not because of what they are worth. This kills the hobby for thise who just want to enjoy these cars.If all you're worried aout is value, go get a stamp collection and let us hot rodder have our hobby back. My ousin wants an old muscle car so bad when he gets old enough to drive, but god luck being able to afford one. I feel though that a better driving car is more valueable than a "correct" car because it's more useful. If you own an old muscle car, and it's not driven regulary, and driven hard, then it's a waste of a perfectly good car. Bean counters be damned.I can't stand the guys who use this excuse either, "I have too much money in it to race it." What a load of crap. I talked to a guy last summer who had a N2O injected, blown, 500+ cube big block, in a Chevelle. It had all the go fast goodies on it and he gave me that line of crap when I asked him how fast it was. Especially thes pro street guys. Don't bring your pro street car to the cruise unless you have a timeslip with you. I don't care how nice it is. A drag car without a strip pass is just another worhtless car. Hell, I used to use my 10.80, numbers matching Firebird as a daily driver. So that's why. Ok, sorry guys, I'm off my soap box now, just had to vent.

yeah, those numbers have to be objective.
after all, what would a big automotive magazine conglomerate have to gain by saying that one of their bigger advertiser's product is the best thing since sliced bread?

So who are you calling a liar? You're basically saying my suspension is full of B.S. That's a bit insulting. I'm sorry to break it to you, but those numbers weren't fudged. None of them were.

OK, I understand...it's the conspiracy theory. Well explain why Hotrods to Hell and Hotchkis's car was 2-4 MPH slower than ours...and we advertise LESS than Hotchkis. We are NOT big in advertising. The driver himself, independent from us AND Primedia, said it was one of the best handling cars he'd ever driven.

But I have a feeling you wouldn't believe it until you saw it yourself.