http://i2.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/86/00/3a14_1.JPG


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Camaro-Z10-Cowl-Plate-Trim-Plate-Tag_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ80736QQihZ005QQitem Z150083856155QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW#ebayphotohost ing

:clonk: Nice job making it look old..

Here is his Description (1969 Camaro Z10 cowl plate) dosen't say real or not I guess that cover him.:D

This guy claim's he took it off 25 yrs ago, he might get away w/it easier if tag was dated right for a z10
I've got 2 of them in my garage and there 04c, and a 04L never heard of a 03e z10 have you
Kevin

NOR295183 for future fake reference.

Earliest Z10 I know of is 04C.

Nope, no 03E's.
Here some good info: http://www.camaros.org/69pacer.shtml

Same seller has this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Camaro-Z28-Cowl-Plate-Trim-Plate-Tag-Silver-Car_W0QQitemZ150083862650QQihZ005QQcategoryZ80736Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item1500 83862650

Pretty blurry pic. What do you think?

Fake

Nor213816

He has a $2,950.00 buy it now on the Z-28 tag. Almost as much as the car sold for new.:yes:

I emailed him telling him that his trimtags were replicas.
He knows, because he did not respond. Crook.

This is the same guy that stuck me with the fake L78 Tag/Vin/Block late last year. Got me for several thousand.

Rich

This is the same guy that stuck me with the fake L78 Tag/Vin/Block late last year. Got me for several thousand.

Rich

his feedback is 100%

? new id?

He has two ID's jaminnow and ringblow, ends auctions early, or offers items after auction ends with out reserve being met. For instance, on the z28 tags, buy it now 2k plus, if someone bids 1,500, he'll contact them after the auction and agree to sell them at their high bid. That way he keeps the 100%feedback when they find out that the tags were fake.

My trim tag was so good and aged that it fooled just about everyone but Kurt. Motor stamp was not so good. I was supposed to get a firewall, instead I got a piece of metal with a "hidden vin" stamped into it (fake as well).

Also, ringblow is listed in MS and jaminnow in TN, he is really in TN.
Total shiester. Sob story and all.

It appears he added the Z10 to a real tag. Tags just sit on the firewall. No real way to get beat up.:noway:

You would think something could be done! Fraud is illegal is it not? Did you try to take any action Rich? Man, that just goes through you like a knife. Can ebay be notified or the legal entity of ebay?

Even the "muscle car" lawyers wanted a retainer in the $K's, then the six mounths to get it to court, the time lost to travel to TN, eventually, all to get a judgement that you cannot collect? Lose/Lose.

I will say that Lynn B, an attorney here on the board offered to send the guy a legal demand letter on my behalf, which is more than can be expected (I work in IT, and many law firms are clients, Lynn is head and shoulders above in my book).

He wanted to give me 4,000 back, and I send him the tags back. I said send the money and I'll send the tags. He sent 2,000, wanted the tags and I said not until you send the additional 2,000. He never did. I still have what looks to be a real late 68 dated L78 engine, with a restamped camaro VIN, and fake tags. I am still down several thou.

I do IT work for the local FBI office, and unless it is $25,000 or more and involves multiple offenses, or is a threat to homeland security, it's not worth their time.

Your and my tax dollars at work.

Local police are a joke as well.

Rich

guy's this is a fight that we have already lost !! it's just a joke nowadays 1969 Z/28's abound fake L78's fake copo's www.trimtags.com it's a lost cause for the real enthusiast's that made this great hobby what it is , it's a shame really , soon people will not pay for number's they will simply pay for a car depending on it's condition , the camaro will soon be a kit car avaiable to anyone with a credit card , I alway's wanted a RS/SS but even if I had the money to buy one now I could not do it as they are no way to authenticate them , and I wonder this with these FAKE trim tag post's on several different site's all the time it's like YEP THAT ONE IS FAKE , and the next post THAT TAG IS REAL , it just go's back and fourth like that , it's only a matter of time till they get it right and then what's gonna happen ,,,,,,,,
sorry to ramble but this has been my hobby for 25 year's and it has been a ride and 1/2 watching it change and it's still changing ,,,,,

He has two ID's jaminnow and ringblow, ends auctions early, or offers items after auction ends with out reserve being met. For instance, on the z28 tags, buy it now 2k plus, if someone bids 1,500, he'll contact them after the auction and agree to sell them at their high bid. That way he keeps the 100%feedback when they find out that the tags were fake.

My trim tag was so good and aged that it fooled just about everyone but Kurt. Motor stamp was not so good. I was supposed to get a firewall, instead I got a piece of metal with a "hidden vin" stamped into it (fake as well).


I wasnt fooled by it, I was the one who brought it up. Kurt was the only one who backed me.:yes:

I wasnt fooled by it, I was the one who brought it up. Kurt was the only one who backed me.:yes:

OK, Kurt and Jonsey :). Point was that many people caught the vin stamping as flawed, but the tag was good, very good. Several people here said the vin was fake, and the tag was real. It's not going to take much longer before they fool even Jonsey :)

What sucks is that he is at it again. He is obviously weathering them, which is much more fraudulent in my book than just buying ttag.com tag and selling it.

I don't buy the buyer beware argument when someone is going to these extremes to fake something........

Rich

You are right. He baits people to bid with a high buy it now and reserve, ends the auction early if the price gets up there and sells outside the auction. Therefore, no one can leave feedback for him.

He definately goes through the trouble of aging and making the tags look used.

What a loser.

Has anyone ever come across a fake tag were the model number and the build city and car number mached a real car. example 69 12437 NOR327550

That NOR 327550 tag was just discussed about 2 weeks ago.

Has anyone ever come across a fake tag were the model number and the build city and car number mached a real car. example 69 12437 NOR327550

That is not so uncommon.
Years ago people simply wanted to change the color or trim.
Not necessarily do a completely fake car.

Apparently alot of people with big blocks and Z28's have not been happy with their original colors, or interiors. Those people with the 6 cylinders and low end models seem to like theirs a whole lot more.

Years ago that is.
These days - Most are changing the tags to make them into more valuable models.

Years ago there was never a reason to change a trim tag. No one cared. I had a 68 back in 1974 that I never even looked at the trim tag on. It was a 327/210hp car with a 3 speed saginaw, and probably 3.31 gears. About the only options in it were the center console, rear window defogger, fold down rear seat, and D90 stripe. Couldn't have cared less what the trim tag said, or didn't say. I repainted the car the color I wanted, added a cowl hood and rear spoiler and somehow never felt the need to touch the trim tag. If the car still exists today, I'm sure someone appreciates that.

Originally developed in the early 80's - The Tags were available mostly for people
who wanted to change the paint, or interior of their Corvette for NCRS judging.
People are still getting burned, now that it is easy to tell the difference.
Back then, yes - no one cared.

Camaro X-code tags are a whole different story.

OMG. The crook sold the fake Z/28 tag for $2950.00. Holy Crap.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=150083862650&rd=1&rd=1

Rich:

If he hasn't made good with you, you need to contact the Attorney General in TN, or whatever state he is really in. When you do, you can advise them about this auction and the Z10 tag as well. They will investigate consumer fraud. As one of the victims, you are in a good position to report it. Send me a PM if you want my ph number so we can talk about it.

Lynn Bilodeau

Holy Crap!

I *really* think this could be him as well. This just went up at the yenko.net classifieds:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Chevelle-LS6-Conv-1970-Chevelle-SS-LS6-Convertible-454-450HP-M22-4-Speed_W0QQitemZ280074617324QQihZ018QQcategoryZ6164 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This is in Ark, and both his ID's are in North Mississippi and South Tennessee, so Arkansas is not that far away.

His M.O. to the "T". A wrecked/piece of a rare car, that has been "stored" for a "long time" as only the "firewall", with "tags" and a "numbers" block. The stampings are hazy, and there looks to be deep rust holes on the pad. I bet that trim tag is weathered as well!

Gut tells me this is him!

Lynn, I'll think about it. I guess more to keep someone else from getting burned. I try and PM/Call you later in the week, early next week.

Rich

Maybe we should be ringing his phone off the hook until he does his job. Here is the info.

http://www.attorneygeneral.state.tn.us/adbennett.htm

OK,
Definately him. I just tried to bid on the auction, and got this:

"Transaction Blocked Unfortunately, this seller has decided that you are not permitted to bid on their listings. You may contact the seller via the Ask Seller Questions feature if you want additional details.
Please note: You may not use other eBay accounts to bid on this seller's listings. Doing so may result in your indefinite suspension from eBay. "

What a scumbag! Three ebay ID's in three different states!

That is so you can't bid on another one of his auctions and leave neg feedback!

Exactly,
But it proves that it is him, I just called ebay, and it seems as if IT IS LEGAL TO HAVE THREE EBAY ID'S THAT HAVE THREE DIFFERENT STATES as your "location"!

Lynn, an attorney on the Yenko site may be suggesting that we go after this bum, Kurt/Jonsey are you guys in? See the post at

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/248741/an/0/page/0#248741

This is my response post there:

"Lynn,
I'd help (press charges, travel up there for court). I know that the chance of ever recovering any $$ is slim, even with a judgement. If you handle the legal end, and if one of the tag experts (Kurt, CRG, Jonsey?) are willing to testify, I'll go the whole way and foot my own expenses.

I chose not to sue him myself as I got 2,000 back, and 7,000 is not enough to sue over (after legal fees, and a judgement that I could prob. never collect on). If by some chance we won and we could collect, I'd be happy to pay whatever legal fees out of that judgement, up to the judgement total amount.

This would be worth my time just to shut this scumbag down!"

rich,

Any way you could post the tag that you got scammed on? I remember reading the thread, I remember seeing the ebay ad, but I do not remember being fooled by a fake tag.

I see on ebay where people that got burned by a scammer, run an auction similar to the scammers auction. They list an item for $1.00 but then in the discription they decribe what happened with the scammer. I don't know if ebay lets this type of auction run but at least some people get warned of the scammer.

I had a pic of it somewhere, but I cant find it between home and work. I have been looking for it. There is an anomoly between the fake and real ones that I picked out. Without seeing the old tag, I cant remember what it was.
I also remember the letters were crisp like most of the repops. They are tough to pick out unless you have alot to compare to side by side.

For what it's worth, if this happened to my wife she wouldn't call anyone. She would write a serious letter demanding our local government officials (CC to Ebay ) especially the Attorney General in MO. look into the matter.
Most people think nothing will become of a letter to local Gov. and that's exactly what I used to think. Surprisingly every time she has sat down to make her argument a response with satisfactory or excellent action happens.
In the past few years we have received responses back with favorable action from:
Arnold Schwarzenegger: (Made State Fund refund 14 months of over payment due to misclassification of our workers)
Gray Davis (got my contractors license without the general 12 month wait.)
CEO/VP for Cingular wireless. (Refunded 1/2 of six months previous cell phone bill because of frequent lost calls!) ** Brilliant**

Use the power of the pen Rich, its only 35 cents and an hour or two to write a letter.

Best of Luck,

Rich

I had a pic of it somewhere ...
I also remember the letters were crisp like most of the repops. They are tough to pick out unless you have alot to compare to side by side.

Here is the link to Rich's photo - http://www.69lm1.com/l78/ttnvin.jpg

Here is the link to yours - http://www.camaros.net/showroom/showphoto.php?photo=1211&cat=500

Hope this helps;
John

Okay, Now I remember why I figured fake.

Thanks

Thanks John,

I just got in. Yep, that's it.

LS6 auction is up to 15,000 now!

Rich

16,200 now!!!!

All the tags / stampings were pretty good. Fake, but it took me a while to prove it to myself.

I remember it now. It was already on my comp :clonk:

Not to hijack, but what does everyone think of this "Z10" tag?

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6872/z10tagjx3.jpg

Looks fine.

Dum Dum and rivits look good to me (but hey, I got stuck, so don;t take my opinion!) :)

Rich

Thats a real one.

Makes you wonder how many of these rare camaros are actaully fake tags.

Looks like the seller got a neg for something. Feedback went private. Hopefully it will steer others away.

http://i2.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/86/00/3a14_1.JPG


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Camaro-Z10-Cowl-Plate-Trim-Plate-Tag_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ80736QQihZ005QQitem Z150083856155QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW#ebayphotohost ing

Not to hijack, but what does everyone think of this "Z10" tag?

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6872/z10tagjx3.jpg
Now I can see why the first is fake. It does look very good.

Shockingly this fake tag has found its way into a car.

Fake Z10 Tag in new home on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Camaro-RS-SS-Z10-1969-Camaro-RS-SS-Z10-Project-Car-Rare_W0QQitemZ190100056480QQihZ009QQcategoryZ6161Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Shockingly this fake tag has found its way into a car.

Fake Z10 Tag in new home on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Camaro-RS-SS-Z10-1969-Camaro-RS-SS-Z10-Project-Car-Rare_W0QQitemZ190100056480QQihZ009QQcategoryZ6161Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)Great catch Mark.

I sent him a note - told him the car was a fake, the tag was a fake, and the auction was a fraud; here's his response:


Response from motorheadgaragedotnet
motorheadgaragedotnet( 50)
Positive feedback: 93.1%
Member since: Dec-11-05
Location: IN, United States
Registered on: www.motors.ebay.com


Item: Chevrolet : Camaro (190100056480)
This message was sent while the listing was active.
motorheadgaragedotnet is the seller.



Thanks for your knowledge - I will let the original owner know that the dealership ripped him off 38 years ago. Does he have any recourse?

Send him a link to the photo of the trim tag off the car. :D

Link sent. Mike. :beers: :beers:

website lists the 69 Z10 for sale : http://www.motorheadgarage.net/

email is : ernietrapp@aol.com

That is the same town as one of the members here -- 36j1967.
Pat - take a ride and set that guy straight. :thumbsup:

It is fraud - plain and simple. And with such an easy paper trail -- that motorheadgaragedotnet guy is an idiot.

That is the same town as one of the members here -- 36j1967.
Pat - take a ride and set that guy straight. :thumbsup:


The seller of the car on ebay is a reg'd member here.

Then he should be aware of the existance of the "camaro police" and their feelings regarding fake tags, and swapped tags.

That is the same town as one of the members here -- 36j1967.
Pat - take a ride and set that guy straight. :thumbsup:

It is fraud - plain and simple. And with such an easy paper trail -- that motorheadgaragedotnet guy is an idiot.

Not a problem Jeff ;) If he's here I'll find him!

How about posting an ebay ad with the proper key words letting potential buyers know that there are lots of fake trim tags and car with fake trim tags and fake stampings and basically offering a free service where an opinion can be given if they email or PM one of us through ebay or directly . Easy to set up a hotmail account to field the questions

This is the same guy that stuck me with the fake L78 Tag/Vin/Block late last year. Got me for several thousand.

Rich

Not trying to be a jerk but I am just curious what the purpose was that you bought this stuff for? I am assuming you bought it to make sure it never ended up on a car ? I never heard anyone ask. Maybe it was in another thread ? I hope I am not being out of line asking but since all of this is being discussed here ........

This tag has been on a car sold by this guy three times now. First time was deleted by ebay. The last time he stole pics from another camaros.net member. Ebay finally deleted that auction. I question he has the car or the tag....
He's now using a pic from my Z10 article.

Pat,
He says he's north of you, at exit 76, Taylorsville, @ Antique Mall & Car Museum.

The Antique Mall & Car Museum at Taylorsville was owned by one of my neighbors who had a huge collection of 50's Chevorlets. He sold the collection at Kruse a few years ago and closed the car museum. He knows the area, thats for certain, and he's playing a little game of scavenger hunt.

I think all of Camaro.net should email the seller on the ebay listing with just a short email of: "your trim tag is a reproduction". Once he gets a couple hundred emails he will begin to realize there are people out there watching these auctions.

Not trying to be a jerk but I am just curious what the purpose was that you bought this stuff for? I am assuming you bought it to make sure it never ended up on a car ? I never heard anyone ask. Maybe it was in another thread ? I hope I am not being out of line asking but since all of this is being discussed here ........

Not a prob. I was supposed to be buying a "project" car. I was supposed to be getting the whole center of the car, with all of the VINs and Tag's attached. Instead I got the tags and vin's blank, and a restamped motor. The tags were quite good, and there was some contirversy(sp) as to how real they were.

And yes, it was heavily discussed. It was to be a dynacorn "fix".


Rich

Pat

1st-I will not respond to ?'s on eBay to people who are just trying to get into an argument or play games. I dont have the time for it and its much easier and more productive for me to press delete, then block you from attempting to waste my time in the future.

As far as my eBay feedback, of my 4 negatives...the most recent was for a $10 coloring book that the buyer never recevied - after leaving me a negative, I shipped him another one. The second was something similar. You can email skirton on the 3rd, he bought a 9k 57 Chevy from me and was dissappointed because he wanted a 20k 57 Chevy. The very first - I received was from a 67 Fastback that I sold for a friend who changed their mind. The buyer recevied his refund back and left a negative, i believe his email is on there as well, feel free to verify this.

Yes, I have cars north of you near the museum owned by Albert. I have several cars around southern Indiana, WV and SC in various locations. I understand you know alot but I guarantee you dont know of every 1st generation Camaro in Seymour.

Yes I know the cars from the museum were sold and Albert ate dinner with C Jackson and on and on and on. Maybe you should sometime observe and listen instead of having your eyes closed while typing and talking only to hear your brilliant self.

If you really need to see my vehicles that are near you, let me know.

I have never seen your 396 Pace Car around town ??? Does that mean it doesnt exist.

Do you know about the other Z11 on the outer edges of Seymour that was drug out of a garage near Speedway about 2 years ago?

What about the original, near mint 67 RS/SS 4 speed Convertible within 15 miles of you that has been held onto since 68 - or his 68 SS driver that has sat next to the 67 for 25+ years?

Or the 68.5 Fastback GT 428 CJ Complete in the barn within 15 miles of you?

Maybe - maybe not.

After posting my auction before, my ebay account was hijacked. I contacted ebay to cancel the auction because someone changed my pictures and payment terms. Before changing my password, they relisted with other erraneous information.

NOW, I am trying to sell one of my project cars in order to finish a couple others. Unfortuantly, instead of being contacted in a civil manner to make an attempt to understand what had happened and the circumstances, I have become a victim of numerous threads on your site. I can handle the slander, harrasment, defemation of character as well as the libel. However, what I absolutly dont like is the fact that you run with your initial instinct (which is fair by all means) and make every attempt to post your opinionated thoughts as facts. I wish that you and your posts could have been helpful to me but instead you have offered no help at all.

As far as the 69 for sale, I have not owned this car for very long and I dont know everything about it, but it is what it is. If someone has changed the car years before I came across it, I have no way of knowing this or realizing it. This is the only Camaro I currently have and I am by no means a Camaro know it all, I barely have the X codes memorized let alone know body codes and paint codes and production numbers. I have historically been more interested in other vehicles.

It would have been greatly appreciated if you would have initially offered to check it out and let me know your opinion of what I have and what I am selling as opposed to you posting to 6 other people what you think I have and your biased opinion - (because you dont even think this car is where I say it is) Nice approach though - I appreciate it

Thanks for responding. Just the fact that you came forward gives your auctions a lot more credibility IMO.

There is a lot of fraud in the market today.
It might not be right - but we all really have to assume the worst these days.
Since know one knows you, and the tag is one of "questionable origin" that has been floating around.
There are going to be many concerns.

Let Pat come over and see the car - he is a knowledgeable guy.
I am sure he will offer a constructive, and helpfull opinion, or solution.




Do you know about the other Z11 on the outer edges of Seymour that was drug out of a garage near Speedway about 2 years ago?

What about the original, near mint 67 RS/SS 4 speed Convertible within 15 miles of you that has been held onto since 68 - or his 68 SS driver that has sat next to the 67 for 25+ years?

Or the 68.5 Fastback GT 428 CJ Complete in the barn within 15 miles of you?


I would like to hear more about these.
Are any for sale?

How about answering some questions.

1. John Z. stated: “I sent him a note - told him the car was a fake, the tag was a fake, and the auction was a fraud; here's his response: Thanks for your knowledge - I will let the original owner know that the dealership ripped him off 38 years ago. Does he have any recourse?”


From that response, it appears you are claiming the tag has been on the car since 1969.
Now you say “I have not owned this car for very long and I don’t know everything about it”

The question is this: How can you know the car tag was on the car 38 years ago, and imply you know the original owner of this car if you have not owned it for a long time and don’t know much about it?

2. How do explain that the very tag which now resides on your car was for sale on ebay less than two and a half months ago? Are you saying you purchased the car since the first part of Feb? Are you saying someone else put the fake tag on it and sold it to you that way? If so, you really ought to expose the crook, because you have him nailed, complete with pictures. Did you look at Mark C’s first post on this thread? That fake tag was for sale recently.

If that is the case, and you have been duped, then this is my attempt not only to “in a civil manner to make an attempt to understand what had happened” but also to offer help. Is it your contention that someone else swapped this tag onto the car and sold it to you? I am an attorney, and have handled fraud cases. I am right now offering to send a demand letter (free of charge to you) to the crook who sold you this car with the swapped trim tag, misrepresenting the car. Contact me privately via private message and get me the documentation. Also, you will need to immediately contact the state’s Attorney General where the transaction took place. Most states have a consumer fraud unit and they will likely go after the scum bag that defrauded you into purchasing this car with a swapped fake trim tag. The original owner might not have recourse, but if you have been defrauded, you certainly do.

You claim to be a victim on numerous threads on this site. Now your story seems to be: “If someone has changed the car years before I came across it, I have no way of knowing this or realizing it.” Have I missed something here? Years before? How could it have been changed “years before”? The tag was just for sale on ebay!!!!!!!!! The change was evidently quite recent. If I have missed something, please tell me what it is.

I am serious. If you have been duped, get me the information so we can put together a paper trail. I will send a demand letter for free.

I agree with Lynn - he can help you find the truth.
One question: Why is Rich Perm being blocked from your auction?
Are you the same guy who sold him that other car from Tennessee?
Or, do you really live in Seymour?
It is a nice reasonable story - but sounds like you might be spinning a new tale with each deal.

Do you have a phone number? send it to me privately - I will call.

Lynn Street

After posting my auction before, my ebay account was hijacked. I contacted ebay to cancel the auction because someone changed my pictures and payment terms. Before changing my password, they relisted with other erraneous information.

What about the first time when ebay deleted the auction?

And you say that during the second time, your ebay account was hijacked? and the hijacker changed the pics in the ad?
Did they also steal your email account because I was conversing with chevynutz@aol.com (which just happens to be your email) throughout the auction and they were denying that the pictures were stolen.

Any of this sound familiar??

Here's the thread about the second auction:
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?p=733429#

If this is "Al Hill" aka- "Fat Albert", I would like for you to explain why you run auctions in three different states? Why so many ebay ID's? Why say you are from Miss or NC, when you are from TN? All of these things don't "add up"?

Why do you run auctions showing cars (ie, firewalls and cowls, ie clipped cars) and then send only tags? I have personally seen at least two LS6 auctions in addition to the L78 auction that I bought from. I even emailed you a memorandum of understanding to be clear that I was getting the clipped car, and NOT just tags, and you replied that this was the case.

You basically told me to go screw myself when I found that the VIN's and Tags were fakes and I did not get anything but tags and a restamped block. I had to spend many hours "fighting" you, and not until you were backed into a corner by the TN Dept of Consumer Affairs that you relented and refunded my money.

Sorry, I'm not buying the "I just bought it" thing. Once maybe, but not after all of the above.

<<<<<<Snip from thread above>>>>>>>>
This is a new ID for Al Hill for me.

jaminnow, chevepart, ringblow,
If this is him, aka, All Hill, aka Fat Alberts, he is really at 9 southpointe dr, Jackson, TN. His shop, Fat Alberts is at 42 N. Madison, Humboldt, TN 38343

I just had the Tennesee dept of Consumer Affairs visit him at his shop, and I got my full $9,500.00 back last week. I hounded the hell out of him. Filled his voicemail, home and work. Never let up.

I still need to ship him his fake block back. I just shipped his fake tags back.
That was the agreement (resolution) w/ the dept of consumer affairs. They were concerned about the local auto shop (Fat Alberts) ripping me off, not ebay or online fraud. I was lucky, he shipped the block from his business , "Fat Alberts", so they got involved. I was able to claim it was auto fraud with his business in Tennesee, did not mention ebay or online fraud.

While I had him on the phone he bragged that he had over 20 ebay ID's, and covered several states. He also stated that he already had the fake L78 Conv. tags and block resold. He said that is the last time he ships a block as "Fat Alberts" from now on it's personal as himself (Al Hill).

Local Police and the FBI, as well as postal (I used postal money orders) were not interested in this Jerk. Even though I showed them evidence of at least $33,000.00 in scam LS6 auctions in the last 30 days, just from the three ID's that I know of. I "heard" the new limit for postal services is $100,000.00 fraud and at least three complaints. If postal is at that number, I can only imagine what it takes to get the FBI involved.

Previous Posts on Al Hill, aka "Fat Alberts":
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showth...light=jaminnow

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showth...light=jaminnow

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showth...light=ringblow
__________________
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<End Snip>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Ive never lived in Tenessee or sold anything from Tenessee.

Pat, Relatives at Lynn St, but not me.

Kurt - (I guess this was my fault for not paying attention to what you were saying) I emailed back about the pictures with the assumption that my account was no longer hijacked, but my password was not changed. At the time had other cars listed as well and get lots of stupid emails with people criticizing - thats why i block people because i figure if your not interested, dont open the page let alone type a message to me about something you dont want to buy - Non payig bidders buy something that they dont want or cant pay for so that seems to stem from someone looking at an auction that they dont want, then asking questions about something they dont want, then winning and i am stuck with the bill.

Rich is blocked because - Rich doesnt want this car but...he tried to bid ???? Just trying to save the wasted time from ANY potential non paying bidder. Whether you are in Brazil or in Kentucky and post threads on this site, I dont care - I dont like non paying bidders. As far as the car, I only know what all I have been told about it and I think I can get back several owners. My reply from ebay was some aggravation, hopefullness, and included sarcasm.

Lynn, As far as the tag....if you guys are correct and there was a fake tag on ebay, i would hesitate to be so closed minded to think that the tag you are referring to is the only one of its kind out there. If someone did create a fake tag and sell it on ebay, I would assume that they created more than one of them. What you guys continually refer to is incorrect. If somehow something similar to this happened awhile back, ?????? That is not the tag on my car, but if this is an identical fake, I would definatly utilize your legal expertise to attempt to get a refund. How can I talk private?

PaceCarJeff, You sound like your serious, I wouldnt mind dealing with you...
The 68.5 CJ could be bought, the 67 RSSS Vert and 68 SS too, I will have to check on the Pace Car, its been awhile. What are you looking for in particular...I dont know of too many camaros but everything else yes. There is a 69 X77 in a garage up here that can be bought for about $3k, it needs 1/4s and put together but the guy has everything and says its all original. I know of several honey holes. In S. Carolina I know of a guy who has a ton of 55-57 verts in barns - good cars..not cheap but definatly below market value. I bought a decent/nice 57 vert for $7500 from him. Already had a 55 vert so I didnt get prices on those but i would say about the same. I can hook you up with an older gentleman in SC that knows of tons of old cars, hes a really good guy to deal with. I bought my 65 fastback off of him and got a really good deal, n oproblems. Also know of a couple gold mines up here...Hemi cars this lady has, a daytona superbird (?) with the wing taken off and some other stuff. My funds are tied up but I can try to find something out for you if interested. Are you interested in Impalas - Theres a barn full of bubble tops up here.

As far as pat, look at his post since my last one, he doesnt want to help, he wants to be an investigator.

Rich, Dont know the guy fat al and never dealt with him. Never lived in TN or sold anything from TN.

Heres the link to the last auction that closed on 1/27/07

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Camaro-Z10-Cowl-Plate-Trim-Plate-Tag_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ80736QQihZ005QQitem Z150083856155QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW#ebayphotohost ing

Heres the image of the tag from that auction:
http://i2.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/86/00/3a14_1.JPG

Heres the image from your auction:

http://i4.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/97/07/7654_1.JPG

Its pretty clear from the pictures that its not just a similar tag to yours, but its exactly the same tag. The scratches on the upper and lower stiffener rolls are identical, as is all of the info on the tag, and the dent on the lower right corner. So unless you bought the car in the last month or so from the guy that had this tag Im going to have to say your story is BS.

The auction on Ebay indicates the car is in Seymour IN and you seem to know about the general area of that town, yet you come here and have a a location in your profile of Chareston SC. We already have a registered user with the name of motorheadgarage who coincidentally has a registered location of Seymour IN. Did you forget you had registered here in the past? I'm getting a sense that theres not a whole lot of truth coming from your side of the fence. Of course I could be wrong and you could just be the poor innocent victim of fraud (I guess well know if you take Lynn up on his offer to help you straighten the situation out), but again Im going to go out on a limb and guess you won't be doing that, since you know exactly where the tag came from and how it got put on the car.

PaceCarJeff, You sound like your serious, I wouldnt mind dealing with you...


I would like to hear more.
However you should know that I am a Camaro oldtimer.
I know exactly what I am looking at, and I will NEVER send you one nickel,
untill I personally inspect what you have for sale.

So if you really have access to these cars - send me some more information,
and a way to contact you in real life.
I will make arangements to come have a look-see.

I have actually been to Seymour once before. ;)

Send it quickly, i could come over on the way back from Spring Carlisle. :thumbsup:

Anybody that believes a word that Fordhater is saying must be raving friggin' lunatic!!!! This guy is busted, cold stone busted!!! He's so busted, he makes OJ look innocent! He's running around in circles, thinking up lie after lie after lie trying to cover himself, you'd have to be crazy to believe any of it. I'm not and I don't. He's a crook, thief, cheat, liar, lowlife, loser, probably beats his dog and wife too!!!! I don't care where he's from either, just don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining...........:angry:

That sucks. You really think so?
I really wanted to buy that "barn find" all original X77 for $3K. :rolleyes:

Not to stray from this dialogue, but I really like Chevy Thunder's idea of placing an Ebay ad, ( if it would be possible to do that. ) Thats the most practical, innovative, simple and results producing idea I've heard of. Most of the folks placing these bids and being scammed are the uneducated, and to steer them here for advise would be a big step in the right direction. I'll ante up!

ChevyThunder and Hylton got even more creative with this scammer :)

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3510&highlight=busted

Anybody that believes a word that Fordhater is saying must be raving friggin' lunatic!!!!

$3000 for an X77? Yea right. He's not even a good enough liar to give a realistic bogus price.

Yea - I was waiting to hear about that little old lady's Hemi Daytona.

Was hoping to buy the both of those for $5K.
It's the little old lady from Seymour Indiana.............

Maybe the good thing about these threads is these clowns are starting to take notice of this site. I like the suggestion someone had about putting TC on ebay to attract attention to prospective buyers.

Do you mean these clowns

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c76/jerry6769/com%20pics/arrestclown.jpg

I know you guys think that all these cars start out at the 100's of thousands you pay for them but realistically, if you beat around the bushes and do some searching, there is plenty of affordable classics still hiding out there. It funny Gary from California says that you cant buy an X77 sitting in a barn for $3k, he would also probably say that you cant buy a house for under $100K. This isnt California Gary, its Indiana, you guys (Cali) are crazy. Say Whats up to Gibby for me - Riverside.

Just asking for clarification, we have this:

http://www.camaros.net/forums/member.php?u=30774

and

website lists the 69 Z10 for sale : http://www.motorheadgarage.net/

email is : ernietrapp@aol.com

Both seem to be consistent with the ebay seller (motorheadgaragedotnet from seymour, IN), but not quite the same info as "fordhater" :confused:

Same guy? Maybe forgot he reg'd here, forgot password, moved, changed emails? Just asking.

Yes, I am attracted to your site because all 6 of you continued to email me your opinions.

Care to respond to some of the questions that have been asked of you?

For example, Mark C's post (#79 in this thread)?

If you have done nothing wrong, I would think that you would try to clear yourself in this ordeal.

Thread #77 - 5th down. Other than that your guess is as good as mine.

Well if I was in your position right now, I would be giving answers to every question and accusation in order to clear my name and reputation.

But I am not you nor am I in your position, so you are able to handle it as you wish. Your call.

Wow

As I have done Dave - I dont see anyone else on here responding to you guys.

"That's all I can stands, and I can't stands no more! "

Hey........... fordhater........am I stupid, or is it just you? The evidence is mounting and you fail to understand the gravity of your actions. Other car enthusiasts may take offense to people like you faking tags, scamming cars, and playing games. But 'round these parts we kinda take it a bit more seriously, ya know what I mean? Ever see "Deliverance"? We're gonna start calling you Bobby Trippe pretty soon. By the time the law (or, at the very least, the legal system) gets ahold of you, you'll be wishing you could only squeal like a pig.

From your posts you seem as if you have a basic understanding of the English language, so what part of "This tag was for sale on Ebay" and "Now it's on a car" don't you understand? The "closed minded" attorney offered his services... FOR FREE, and yet there is no response. The tag on YOUR car is fake, AND it is the EXACT SAME TAG THAT WAS FOR SALE ON EBAY, NOT A REPLICA. If you think that these guys don't know what they're talking about, I'll prove it. I'll personally put up $1000 sheckels (and get all the members of the 13th tribe to do the same) if you can prove otherwise. All you are doing is stalling for time to try to figure out how to hold the dogs off, but it won't work. Your number's up, so why don't you go back to whatever hole you crawled out of and become one with the universe.

No animals were harmed in this post.

Kalif

Come on guys dont be so ruff. Judge not lest ye be judged, right?



AAAAWWW, WHO AM I KIDDING?

I will agree on the 'barn finds'. I know personally where there is a MOUNTAIN of muscle cars for sale. I mean EVERYTHING from 1930 to 1975. no joke. The guy even has a couple of NHRA record holders he happened to come across. I think one of them is a white and red dodge 'sox?' car...he said none of them are for sale...and that sux. He and my dad are REAL close tho...so give me some time to talk to him...

N-E-WAYS.. Think this guy is busted, or what?

I would like to climb that mountain :)

Kalif, why cant we put up an auction? to warn others....

And it goes on. Thank you Kalif for stumbling upon this and not reading it before providing your opinion. If you read post #77, you will find that I did respond to Lynns offering of assistance. Thank you Kalif and by the way, I think its you.

It's Kilif. He just can't type.:)

Oh, yeah - You responded to his offer by saying,

"Lynn, As far as the tag if you guys are correct and there was a fake tag on ebay, i would hesitate to be so closed minded to think that the tag you are referring to is the only one of its kind out there. If someone did create a fake tag and sell it on ebay..."

It has been stated that there was a fake tag on Ebay, and THAT tag is on your car... not a similar tag to yours, not a replica of your tag... the very tag that is on your car was for sale on ebay less than 3 months ago.

That tag is on your car.
The tag is fake
Your car is fake

You intimated in your reply to John Z in your auction that, in essence, this is a one-owner car:

"I will let the original owner know that the dealership ripped him off 38 years ago".

Then, you flippantly ask if he has any recourse. No need to read between the lines here. If you are not saying that this is a one owner car, then at the very least you are saying that you know the entire history of the car. One of two situations presents itself:


You know the original owner of the car, he put a fake tag on it and duped you, in which case Lynn has graciously offered to help you in legal proceedings at no charge.
You don't know the original owner of the car and you misrepresented yourself in order to hide the facts.So, I conclude that you know the owner and are brokering it for him... but wait... you admit you have not owned this car for very long and dont know everything about it. If you know the original owner of the car, how could you not know everything about it? Does he have alheizmers? Have you been too busy to get the facts? Do pigs really fly (squeal)?

But then, there is yet another contradictory statement that must be disected. You stated that,

If someone has changed the car years before I came across it, I have no way of knowing this or realizing it.

Who could have changed the car years before if you know the original owner? And, again, what part of "this tag is fake and sold less than 3 months ago on ebay" doesn't register with you?

You have not responded to any of the direct questions asked of you as pertains to the tag, its authenticity, or the manner in which it appeared on your car. you have tried to wiggle out of the fact that it is a tag that had be determined to be fake BY EXPERTS, that it was sold on ebay less than 90 days ago, and it is now on your car. You have used circular reasoning, a common tactic by the criminally minded, to obfuscate the facts and deflect the accusations directed at you.

I did not "stumble" upon this this thread. I have followed it from the beginning. And I have read through it not once, but several times. I read and re-read post #77 several times as well. Your sly way of "responding", if you want to call it that, is to use subtle sarcasm as a means of "answering" the question, which never got answered. You have your hand in the cookie jar and there's no way out. It would be asking too much to request repentance, so I'll just say why don't you go find another sand box to play in... this one's full.

Spell Check completed.
Kalif Out

Registrant:
Motor Head Garage
Ernie Trapp
620 North Pine Street
Seymour, IN 47274
US
Email: ernietrapp@aol.com

Registrar Name....: REGISTER.COM, INC.
Registrar Whois...: whois.register.com
Registrar Homepage: www.register.com

Domain Name: motorheadgarage.net

Created on..............: Fri, Jan 21, 2005
Expires on..............: Wed, Jan 21, 2009
Record last updated on..: Sat, Feb 03, 2007

Administrative Contact:
Motor Head Garage
Ernie Trapp
8751 Yearling Dr. # 6G
N. Charleston, SC 29406
US
Phone: 843-7643332
Email: ernietrapp@aol.com

fordhater...can you please review Mark C's post number 79 .. here I will copy it below, and just study the two tags in the picture? It is obvious to anyone with decent eye sight that they are the same tag but if you are having problems with it just get a magnifying glass and it will become even more obvious. I would really like to know what the explanation is for these two tags being identical...one being lose on the Ebay auction the other being on a car you have admitted to owning and having complete knowledge of it history....what is the deal?

"Ooohhh what a tangled web we weave when we first begin to deceive "


Heres the link to the last auction that closed on 1/27/07

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Camaro-Z10-Cowl-Plate-Trim-Plate-Tag_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ80736QQihZ005QQitem Z150083856155QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW#ebayphotohost ing

Heres the image of the tag from that auction:
http://i2.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/86/00/3a14_1.JPG

Heres the image from your auction:

http://i4.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/97/07/7654_1.JPG





Ohh check it out .. on his web site he has his own forum call "garage talk" .. does this qualify as garage talk ?

http://www.motorheadgarage.net/

He doesn't care - he is being entertained.
Hopefully he will finally stop laughing about this in JAIL.
http://images.corvetteforum.com/images/smilies/beatdeadhorse5.gif
What goes around comes around - and this stuff eventually catches up with anybody.

Got to http://motorheadgarage.net/ ad under in the barn you will see
1969 Camaro Z10 Pace Car Coupe - Non-numbers matching

sure sounds like him :sad: :sad: :sad:

I dunno about anyone else, but I'm tired....

Seller believes "A", some guys here believe "B". Seller will never convince everyone here, and everyone here will never convince the seller. Enough info has been unearthed on each side. Everything is documented by the guys who keep track of this stuff, so lets drop it and walk away. It really is beating a dead horse and has turned in to a pissing contest...

Actually, I haven't heard from fordhater. He did state that he did not know how to contact me, so...

As far as how to contact me, just send me a PM. If you prefer, email me at:

bilodeaulynn@hotmail.com

I will need the following info:

1. VIN
2. Name address & phone # of the person you purchased the car from
3. Bill of Sale, if there is one.
4. If no BOS, get a copy of the title that was turned in when you registered the car in your name. Although protected by federal privacy laws, you can get that info because of an exception, specifically because you need it for “investigation in anticipation of litigation” this is a federal standard applicable in every state I have ever tried.
5. Copy of the current registration.
6. Affidavit from you stating you are one and the same person named as the record owner of the car, that the car had the current fake trim tag on it at the time you purchased it, and itemizing your loss, i.e. purchase price and any out of pocket expenses you have incurred.
7. Letter authorizing me to make a demand for a full refund of the purchase price plus any out of pocket expenses as a result of your purchase of this vehicle that was materially misrepresented.

Total cost to you: $0.00
Catching a crook: priceless

Look forward to hearing from you at your convenience.

Lynn Bilodeau

Registrant:
Motor Head Garage
Ernie Trapp
620 North Pine Street
Seymour, IN 47274
US
Email: ernietrapp@aol.com

Registrar Name....: REGISTER.COM, INC.
Registrar Whois...: whois.register.com
Registrar Homepage: www.register.com (http://www.register.com)

Domain Name: motorheadgarage.net

Created on..............: Fri, Jan 21, 2005
Expires on..............: Wed, Jan 21, 2009
Record last updated on..: Sat, Feb 03, 2007

Administrative Contact:
Motor Head Garage
Ernie Trapp
8751 Yearling Dr. # 6G
N. Charleston, SC 29406
US
Phone: 843-7643332
Email: ernietrapp@aol.com


Dont you just LOVE whoisdotnet?

Lynn, I looked you up on Martindale.com and you are not registered in Oklahoma nor anywhere else in the US as an attorney? Is this correct? I did find attorneys with the last name in the North East U.S. (Conn, DC, Mass, Virgina, RI, one in Fl and MI) but none of them were registered with the first name Lynn and no last name of Bilodeau is in Oklahoma. I just want to make sure you are an attorney before I send this information to you.

Yes I love whoisdotnet as well. But I already told you I have a place in S.C. and in Indiana, thanks for researching that and reiterating it though.

Also you guys act surprised that I have a website or act like I am hiding that - you are real sneaky. My 4 year old could have told you that just from looking at my eBay username...hint hint motorheadgarageDOTnet - see any correlation ??????

So, you found out my name - which I already told you and you can obviously see in my email address. And you found out where I reside - which I already told you.

As for the other book that was written earlier, I do not personally know the original owner but was told it would be easy to find him and the guy I got the car from has names* of previous owners as the car was owned within a certain vicinity for most of its life.

*Not certain that he has all owners names but some of them - clarification is a must with you guys or I will be typing it again.

-Last Post- Jeff let me know if you want that info on the other cars...

Well, you didn't try very hard, now did you? You could have typed in "Oklahoma Bar Association" in any search engine, and got the phone number for the Oklahoma State Bar. I am licensed in the State of Oklahoma, and have been since 1990. I am licensed to practice in all state courts, the Oklahoma Supreme Court, US Bankruptcy Courts, Federal District Court in the Western District of Oklahoma, Federal District Court in the Northern District of Oklahoma, and the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals.

Anyone who wants to be listed in MH can do so by kissing a few butts and paying money. I have no desire to be listed in MH as I have all the work I can handle without this subtle form of "advertising", which is all it is.

Your inquiry is much better suited to a private message, don't you think? I gave you an email address, but you chose to make the above ridiculous post on a public forum calling into question whether I am licensed. Kind of a cheap shot, don't you think?

Call the Oklahoma Bar Association. Phone (405) 416-7000

My info is:

Lynn J. Bilodeau, OBA #13956
Attorney at Law
212 East Second Street
Edmond, OK 73034

I already gave you my email address. The bar has another one for me as well.

I looked up my family lawyer there(martindale.com) and couldnt find him(my lawyer) either.
HMM.....

FWIW-
The seller of the loose tag on eBay was:
3 Way Auto Sales
42 N Madison Dr
Humboldt, TN 38343-8588
(731) 824-1271

Lynn,
I apologize, I didnt even think about that.

Sorry to bring this up but, Lynn, I don't think that will be sufficient. We will need a quart of blood, proof of non-alienship, and a letter from the producers of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous if you are to pass the muster. You may have passed the bar, but can you pass the muster? (Kalif likes his dogs with relish, pass the mustard)

Fordhater - As the arbitor of biting posts and conflict non-resolution let me be the first to congratulate you on yet another masterful dodge of the facts. Your witty, skillful, and downright sarcastic diatribe has left us all agast. I, for one, am ahsamed that I could ever have doubted you. I think it is wickedly funny that even your username is a double entendre. You call yourself "fordhater", yet 2 of the 3 cars for sale on your site are Ferds, and the only "real" car is a fake. You wily devil you. My hat's off to such an ingenious ploy to have some fun with all of us. You got me for sure. Your bladder must be HUGE because I think you won this one.

Like VI009DZ said, I think we should all turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to this whole thing and just let bygones be bygones. Caveat Emptor, Imus should be made King, and pigs really do fly. I think that just because someone trys to defraud someone else that doesn't mean they should be held up to the light of scrutiny. We all know people who have been victims of crimes and, as long as it doesn't happen to mr, we should just move on. Victims come, and victims go, but the perps do not really need to be held accountable. So, yeah, this is cool. I think pretty soon we can all start singing Kum Ba Ya and go merrily on our way.

I hereby crown myself the new King of Sarcasm

Man. This is getting ridiculous.

Still waiting for proof of a $3K X77. You are talking about just the trim tag, right?

Lynn,
I apologize, I didnt even think about that.

Accepted.

Pat, that was you I just cancel your bid on correct? Watertech15 - Its says your registered in MO, but you bought and picked up a car from ricks63 (I know Ricky A.) here in Seymour in July 06'. Big coincidence or your just accidently typed in MO instead of IN...

As well as the main one englishchick

No Watertech15 is not me? I'm afraid you just booted a potential buyer. Yes Englishchick is my ebay user name. Yes I bought a ragtop Ford from a guy named Ricky in the alley behind the Dairy Queen for $500 cash and yes he took me to your Lynn St. address where we met. I've never purchased anything from ricks63 on ebay. I donated the Ford to Seymour High School's tech teacher. He is the sponser of the "Seymour Students Car club" and wanted something for the kids to work on. I was happy to help give something back to our community. The car will be featured at the high school car show May 12th if Ricky would like to come see it. Yes the thousands of people who are following this thread now know I know who you are and have seen this car in person. It didn't have a Z10 cowl tag when you showed it to me last but I did write down the original cowl tag data as I do with every Camaro I look at. No it is not in my best interest to sabatoge your sale of this car as a Z10 as I'm a willing potential witness for the prosecution should the new owner decide to letigate. Yes I am aware you are yanking my chain and have taken note. Yes I am a man of action and not words.

Pat Railsback
8210 Persimmon Lake Drive
Seymour, IN. 47274

WOO HOO! And the thot plickens

I wonder when I'll get bored enough to read all this?
Someone pass me a chili dog?

No Watertech15 is not me? I'm afraid you just booted a potential buyer. Yes Englishchick is my ebay user name. Yes I bought a ragtop Ford from a guy named Ricky in the alley behind the Dairy Queen for $500 cash and yes he took me to your Lynn St. address where we met. I've never purchased anything from ricks63 on ebay. I donated the Ford to Seymour High School's tech teacher. He is the sponser of the "Seymour Students Car club" and wanted something for the kids to work on. I was happy to help give something back to our community. The car will be featured at the high school car show May 12th if Ricky would like to come see it. Yes the thousands of people who are following this thread now know I know who you are and have seen this car in person. It didn't have a Z10 cowl tag when you showed it to me last but I did write down the original cowl tag data as I do with every Camaro I look at. No it is not in my best interest to sabatoge your sale of this car as a Z10 as I'm a willing potential witness for the prosecution should the new owner decide to letigate. Yes I am aware you are yanking my chain and have taken note. Yes I am a man of action and not words.

Pat Railsback
8210 Persimmon Lake Drive
Seymour, IN. 47274

Ouch! That left a mark thats not going to buff out.....:noway:

I wonder when I'll get bored enough to read all this?
Someone pass me a chili dog?


...better grab a cold one, ...that chili dog might leave agita.
I don't know though, ..the plot is thickening, ...you might want to grab the popcorn...

...oh brother.....

So, now that you've all of a sudden seen this car at Lynn St. (?) even though it has never been there (?) and I dont live there (?) where you took notes, you would have written the VIN down correct (?) Post the last 3 #'s of the VIN, I will take a picture of the VIN on the Camaro with todays local newspaper in the pic. We will see who is bluffing on that one...We must hurry though as the Camaro is sold.

I'm not certain about the Watertech15 ebay name, maybe Im wrong or maybe thats just the username you use to bid on stuff your suppose to be evaluating for other camaro guys on here. Not for sure, just looked at the feedback for a minute and it looks like all Camaro stuff and it matches up - the MO in the registration threw me for a loop but then the feedback from ricks63 in Seymour, where someone came and picked up a Ford kinda stood out to me.

By the way, you dont know me, you keep referring to relatives of mine that you may or may not know.

Other than if you want to type those 3 #'s of the VIN or the whole VIN, I dont care, I consider my part of this thread finished as the car has been sold.


36j1967
Senior Tech
Pat Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Indiana Seymour
Posts: 801

Re: Is this your car

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm right here in Seymour, IN. and this car and seller are completely unknown to me? Kurt asked me to look for the seller/car the last time it was on ebay. I sent the seller a message and got no reply. This is John Melloncamps "small town". If this car was here I'd know it!
__________________
1967 IPC 0-1 L35/M40
1968 RS/SS L78/M22
1969 Z11 L34/M20

No Watertech15 is not me? I'm afraid you just booted a potential buyer. Yes Englishchick is my ebay user name. Yes the thousands of people who are following this thread now know I know who you are and have seen this car in person. It didn't have a Z10 cowl tag when you showed it to me last but I did write down the original cowl tag data as I do with every Camaro I look at.
Pat Railsback
8210 Persimmon Lake Drive
Seymour, IN. 47274

Way to go englishchick. No integrity for fordhater, I guess. :clonk:

So you've been pondering if I'm bluffing and ended your auction? Sounds more like you're looking over your shoulder to me? Both conditions are satisfactory to me but this game is still in play.

Oooooo! Nananananananana>>>>hey Hey Hey Good Bye!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/mistermister1/popcorn.gif

Jonesy, can I get some of that? more butter please....

Looking a little lower than just over my sholder at you pat, no response on the vin ? The auction is ended because of a cash buyer. If you want to see the car for the first time, I will let you know when he is here to load it up, then he might let you check it out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/mistermister1/popcorn.gif

Man!! What a roller coaster ride this thread has been! A few "Perry Mason"
moments, an occassional "so quiet a pin can be heard dropping"; and like the Energizer Bunny, it just keeps going and going and going!!

Looking a little lower than just over my sholder at you pat, no response on the vin ? The auction is ended because of a cash buyer. If you want to see the car for the first time, I will let you know when he is here to load it up, then he might let you check it out.

just out of curiosity, did you tell the buyer that the tag is bogus? I mean, it's not even debatable with the Ebay auction pic and your tag on the car side by side. And if you didn't disclose the tag, what's going to happen when he stumbles onto this site for help restoring the car (it is the one of the largest on the net if not the largest for first gens)? He'll be informed of this thread and that you knew the tag was bought on Ebay and did not go with the car.

Jody

Don't forget to report that "cash sale" to the IRS ;) That can be done on your personal or business tax return or through your Indiana dealers license account.

well, I need to check new posts first, but it's still over an hour till idol, so maybe I'll start at the beginning.

Act II, Scene 3


Feb 16, 2007 - A new member joins - Username is "Motorheadgarage", he lives in Seymour, IN, and his email is ernietrapp@aol.com --- welcome Ernie (where's Bert?) - No posts Ernie?
Feb 16, 2007 Mr69 posts a thread about a possible Z10 for sale on Ebay - it's for sale in IN (http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=101163)
Later that day DragracinRS says he thinks he remembers the same car for sale somewhere up north
Feb 19th - dragracinRS finds the ad for the car for sale, and it's the same car, but it's in NY, not IN
36j1967 chimes in --- he says it's not him selling the car, but asked around and no one knows about the car (it's a small town) - He makes an interesting statement: "Seymour Indiana is the "small town" of John Melloncamp and subject of the song. I know every first generation camaro here." --- more on this later
KevinK7 states that he has talked to he actual owner of the car for sale (in NY) twice --- the seller is selling the car via an ad on Racingjunk.com, not on ebay.
DragracinRS has a picture of the trim tag emailed to him by the seller of the car on ebay
Feb 20 - DragracinRS finds another car for sale with the exact same trim tag, this time listed on camarosandfirebirds.com (ad is now gone)
Same ebay scammer ends up using pictures from an ad on TC classifieds
Feb 22 - The ad on camarosandfirebirds.com and the user account is deleted... scammer is roadblocked
Feb 24 - The car goes back on ebay, this time with a fake tag that was sold on ebay a couple of months prior. The seller is motorheadgarage, his email is chevynutz@aol.com - his reply to an email:"??? What and why ??? Now you want to send me a bogus check for $4000 and I will cash it and give the change to the shipper huh...

Pay attention to the nomenclature... more on this later

Round 2:

Feb 23, 2007 - A new thread is posted about an ebay scam (http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?p=733429) . It's a piggyback on the previous thread, with a couple of foornotes.
The ad for the car on ebay is a scam. The actual car is owned by another member here, 2518speck. He tried to sell it previously, but it did not sell. It's not a Z10, and the car is still owned by 2518speck. The photos he took were hijacked by the scammer and he used them in his fake auction.
The tag on the car is the same tag as the previous auction, and (again) that tag was sold on ebay weeks prior.
That tag is now purported to be on the car that is for sale by Fordhater / aka motorheadgarage / aka chevynutz@aol.comFast Forward

April 7th, 2007 - The thread that all this links back to is revived (this thread). The thread began with the positive ID of a fake tag, and it was revived when MarkC found this same tag now being disguised as the tag on a somewhat valuable car for sale on ebay. Interestingly, this car is for sale....MEET THE SELLER - motorheadgaragedotnet (username on ebay) --- as a review, there is a Team Camaro member named motorheadgarage (coincidence?) who is ernietrapp@aol.com , who is chevynutz@aol.com who is fordhater on Team Camaro, who happens to be motorheadgarage from the first ebay auction, who claims his ebay ID was hijacked.
According to his ebay auction, fordhater does not have any history on the car and has not owned it for very long. In post #56 of this thread his responds to a barbed email to his ebay auction is recorded. He states he will "...let the original owner know that the dealership ripped him off 38 years ago. Does he have any recourse?"
On the same day, April 7th, a suggestion is made that someone send him an email with the link to this thread. Big Mike steps up to the plate... email sent.
That evening RamAirDave puts up a post that motorheadgarage is a registered member on Team Camaro (see first bullet point above).
That same day fordhater / aka motorheadgarage joins Team Camaro --- " Welcome fordhater!" He obviously sees what is going on on the board, but sits back for 2 days to fish it out. He is apparently from Charlston, SC.
April 9th, 2007 --- fordhater decided to enter the fray. motorheadgarage, the Team Camaro member, has been on the board since Feb 16th, the same day that the first ebay auction was exposed. He never posted... just lurked. Now, after almost 2 months from the initial posting of the fake tag / car, one of our newest members starts posting about his ebay auction, one that has been determined to have the fake tag / car from the first expose' - he is asked if he is motorheadgarage from Team Camaro and "forgot" that he was a member here, but there was no response. Is any of this sounding familiar?
He says he is trying to sell one of his project cars in order to finish a couple of others, yet he is looking for even more project cars.
On his first post he writes, "I have never seen your 396 Pace Car around town ???" Does the nomenclature look familiar? (see above...) --- also see posts #77 and #111 for additional similarities.
In all of his posts he uses either circular reasoning, sarcasm, questionback tactics, or all, in an attempt to deflect attention from the real questions that have been asked.
He states that he has become a victim of "numerous threads" on this board. How is this possible? He only joined two days prior to revealing this in his first post unless.................. wait a minute..... could he be "motorheadgarage", the Team Camaro member that joined on February 16th? Could this be a reference to the first ebay auction, the one that was proven to be a scam? And could it be that motorheadgarage is fordhater, who was "victimized" on that prior thread back in February and did absolutely nothing about it?
fordhater was asked several direct questions with which correct answers would exonerate him, yet there was no satisfactory answers given.
It has been proven by EXPERTS in this field that the fake tag which originated this thread, and the tag on the auctioned car on ebay, are the exact same tag. This has been pointed out once before by one of our illustrious members, but no explanation was given.My theory is as follows: This is a giant stall tactic. Once this wraps up we will never hear nor see from fordhater again, at least under that name. Unless there is some heat on motorheadgarage.net will continue to exist and others will be sucked in. Pretty soon a new member to the Mustang forums will pop up called "camarohater", and he will be selling Fords. The first one will probably be a 1970 Mach I.

P.S. - Fordhater is looking for a 1970 Mach I Mustang project, in case any other Ford Haters out there have an extra one they can part with.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/mistermister1/popcorn.gif

...Holy smokes Dreamweaver :) where do you have time to do all that research. Geez, ...I didn't even realize this was the SAME tag from that other sale.
...The only thing I could add is, ...well, ...more Popcorn, ...now where is Jonesy finding all those popcorn smilies :beers:

H I Dreamweaver Thanks For All That Hard Work Lets Get Rid Of This Guy Thanks

I'm still waiting for the pictures of the Barn find X77 for $3K.
And what happened to that little old lady's Hemi Daytona? http://images.corvetteforum.com/images/smilies/icon_bs.gif

Jeff, I have a Hemi Daytona for you.....if you really want one....

and it will be any color you want. the current owner is a guy named 'ertl'? he must be german, any way he says he'll let it go cheap. I haven't verified the trim tag tho....

I'm still waiting for the pictures of the Barn find X77 for $3K.
And what happened to that little old lady's Hemi Daytona? http://images.corvetteforum.com/images/smilies/icon_bs.gif

Still waiting for proof of a $3K X77. You are talking about just the trim tag, right?

I am sure that is his next tag for sale. $3K would be about right with the VIN tag also.:clonk:

Wow, Kilif, just when I was gonna read all that, now I don't have to!

Can you believe that Haley got voted off idol? Dat girl is a stone fox! They can teach anyone to sing, legs like that are gifts from above!

Jonesy, pass the popcorn please?

well, I need to check new posts first, but it's still over an hour till idol, so maybe I'll start at the beginning.

Who do you want booted?:)

EDIT: Darn you Jim. I just read your last response. I didn't want to know until I saw it.:mad: Why can't that bald guy or Sanjaya leave? NO eye candy left now!

That girl had legs that went all the way up to make an a$$ out of themselves!!!
that sux

Who do you want booted?:)

EDIT: Darn you Jim. I just read your last response. I didn't want to know until I saw it.:mad: Why can't that bald guy or Sanjaya leave? NO eye candy left now!
ooops, sorry Gary, I thought everyone watched it live...
I ain't watchin it no more... 3 fat girls, 3 guys, and Sanjaya, why bother?

ps... my wife's been soo jealous, it's hilarious.

We don't see it until 9:00 PST. I was just kidding.

I, my self, want to thank FordHag. This has been such a tough week at work - the only thing that has got me through these last few days is knowing when I walk through that door I can read up on the latest...My wife calls it my stories.

Unfortunately, it looks as though it will be coming to a close here soon. I heard a few federal agents have read Dreamweavers cliff notes and become very interested in visiting someone in Charleston and/or IN.......If we are lucky we can catch the live ending on Cops! bad boys, bad boys - what ya gonna do.........

This had to have been the most amazing thread in this or any sites history, my hats off the the members here watching out for the preservation of our hobby...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/mistermister1/popcorn.gif

Ned Beatty in Deliverance = Bobby Trippe
Fordhater on TC = Ernie Trapp

See what I'm talkin' about? C'mon guys... keep up with me.

Jim, Since you cheated by skipping directly to the CliffsNotes, go to 4th line of the first paragraph of post 97 (I know how lazy you are).

Welcome to Kalif's Magicial Mystery Tour.... More to come

Wow, Kilif, just when I was gonna read all that, now I don't have to!

Can you believe that Haley got voted off idol? Dat girl is a stone fox! They can teach anyone to sing, legs like that are gifts from above!

Jonesy, pass the popcorn please?

100% in agreeement there Jim. Legs like that are Priceless! I'd trade just about anything for dem 2.It should have been you know who getting the Boot!OK back to this thread Man o Man Print this baby out,stick it in a binder.Great work guy's ..p.s. You need a bowl of popcorn just to get through it all LOL

Jim, Since you cheated by skipping directly to the CliffsNotes, go to 4th line of the first paragraph of post 97 (I know how lazy you are).

Welcome to Kalif's Magicial Mystery Tour.... More to come
If you really knew how lazy I are.... you woulda told me which page post #97 is on!!

I knew it was either Haley or Phil's time to go. DAMN THAT SANJAYA AND IS BOYISH I'M MICHAEL JACKSON'S NEXT VICTIM CHARM!!! :(

Maybe at least we'll now see Haley in Playboy. :D

Oh btw, great sluthing gang. Is anyone buying the notion that he has a cash buyer for the fake Z10?

... he has a ... fake Z10?

Isnt that illegal? or at least morally reprehensible...?

Hey............... fordhater...................

BOO

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g279/dreamweaver11/Stupid%20Stuff/ghost09.jpg

Relisted. Sale fell through. Imagine that.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Camaro-Z10-Project_W0QQitemZ190107516572QQihZ009QQcategoryZ61 61QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And, even though he is a "fordhater" that needs to get this gone in order to finish off other projects he is still looking for a 1970 Mach I. He has not been on TC since the day after he was exposed... April 12, 2007. My guess is that he has joined the site again, under yet another name, and is watching this thread. For a 25 year-old punk he really has a lot of moxy to push this envelope.

Hope he gets busted again.

Still waiting for some more information. His last 4 known addresses are, in order:

Seymour, Indiana
Charlston, South Carolina
Wichita Falls, Texas
North Charlston, South Carolina

The authorities are closing in :)

I am still waiting for pictures of that Little old lady's Hemi Daytona. - WTF :clonk:

I posted a little while back ( Build or Buy ). Thanks to this Thread,,,best reading so far,, I am going to continue to build my 67 project no matter how long it is going to take me and if I ever think I would have been better off buying one already done I will look back on this Steven King Novel and understand why I choose that root.

Good work to all those that care about the integrity of this hobby. I am a believer...

The man with the weathered cowl tags.......:hurray: Why does this guy keep on moving around for. The credit bureau does not like that.......

His newest comments:

"I bought it assuming the tag came on the car, some people have viewed the tag have stated that it didnt and some have said it did but was an early build date ??? I dont know alot about camaros and I have no desire to keep it so I am selling it as is."

I'd say it's a pretty late build date. The trim tag was just installed last month!

Gee, I wonder what he needed these for?????

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170094934234

He bought them 3/26/07




.

He bought some on April 12th too, or that's when the comments were posted. Check out his reply to the seller " gr8 to deal with, honest person ". Takes one to know one I guess. What I didn't like was how many people are buying these rivets. That's very scary.

GREAT catch ProZ11 :thumbsup:

All I can say is wow!

You guys are good and I've learned alot after reading this thread tonight.

Back in the late 80s I totaled my 69Z and cut around both the trim and vin tags to remove them from the wrecked car, saved them along with the drivetrain for future use or sale.

I think the best thing to do is destroy these tags after reading and understanding all this.

I honestly didn't think I was doing anything wrong as I was keeping everything together and the body was way beyond repair.

I thank you for the education and for keeping my butt out of trouble out of ignorance.

Rick

Rick, Now that you have seen the light, would you like to post the vin?

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/DZRick/DZblock027Small.jpg

124379N621263

Thanks Rick!

124379N621263

Thanks Rick!

I honestly thought being that I had everything from my own car that transfering them to another wouldn't really be wrong.:(

Well at least I've got everything for a numbers matching drivetrain advertized as clone Z/28:thumbsup:

If you have a legal title for a Z28 with the original VIN plate still attached as well as the Fisher Body cowl tag.......let the restoration begin! This is a different scenario. I think we need a rule book?

If you have a legal title for a Z28 with the original VIN plate still attached as well as the Fisher Body cowl tag.......let the restoration begin! This is a different scenario. I think we need a rule book?

As I said I cut the tags out of my wrecked Z ,so even though they still attached to original firewall steel it's only a few inches around each tag.

Title is mine too which makes this all the harder to swallow, all I can say at this point is I wish I had kept the body:mad:

What a waste, huh:yes:

And you also have some of the original drivetrain components too?

All the drivetrain plus many other parts.:hurray:

I think you should start a new discussion on this situation. The implications of such a dilema have been thrown up for debate in the past. Most often its just an arbitrary "what if" scenario posed by someone who wants to stir the pot. I'd like to see someone lay out a case such as yours with photos of the vehicle items in question i.e. title, attached tags, drivetrain components etc.

I'll do that sometime this summer.

I've got a lot of digging around to do to get pictures of everything. I've got a lot of parts from this car, a lot of parts!!:beers:

The Z almost looks like it was a 7 at one time.
The Camaro Detectives will be busy........
-----------------------------------
Barn find Muscle Cars

Hetter hurry... onl;y 2 days left. Bargain basement pricing of only 3k and change:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190107516572&category=6161

I stand my my theory... "fordhater" has still not logged on since April 12th. Would love to see the IP locations of all who joined in the day(s) after to see if they are anywhere near Seymour. Any bets?

His latest ad on RJ
http://www.racingjunk.com/post/877380/1969-Camaro-Z10-Project-Car.html

He doesnt say whether its a Z10 car or not, however, it is stated in the add what the cowl tag reads.....hmmmm.
Covering his back? LOL

It's baaaack!!!


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190117083215&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:MT:1

One day it will sell :) :) :) Ducks are in a row here ;)