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Starting issue on my '69

6K views 27 replies 19 participants last post by  blue69camaro 
#1 ·
I've had some issue with my Camaro not starting after it has been driven for a little while...Once I turn it off, it won't start again until it cools down. The starter does not engage at all, so I have narrowed it down to the Soleniod and installed a new one (along with a heat shield) but did not solve the problem.

I checked the ground(s), and I am about to change the starter, but think it might not be the issue...

Has anyone had any simialr issues with thier First Gen??

Any suggestions would be much appreciated...396 (factory exhaust manifolds)...4-speed

Tim
 
#5 ·
As most can see form my original post date, I have yet to solve my starting issue when the car gets hot. It does start once the car cools down (about 20 mins), but fires right up once the engine cools...

I've changed the selanoid installed a heat shield to no avail, and now I recently replaced the original (style) starter with a new Powermaster gear-reduction starter and the original problem still occurs, it will not start when it is hot...

I have been told to check the timing, battery, engine ground, but all seems to be fine...

Looking for any other suggestions...?:confused:
 
#6 ·
Have you checked for fuel peculation? If all systems are fine and the car cranks fast but does not start, you may be boiling the fuel in the carburetor after the engine gets hot. You need a spacer to act as a heat diverted between the intake and the carburetor.

Kev
 
#7 ·
The problem is likely somewhere in your car's wiring. As your starter gets hot, resistance naturally increases in the solenoid windings. If you have dirty/corroded/worn contacts in the wiring between the battery and the purple S wire on your solenoid - which also add increased resistance - it can't overcome this extra resistance from the solenoid and you get nothing.

The solution is to either clean/check/repair the wiring and/or contacts - and there are a lot of them to check - or to wire in a relay or a Ford type solenoid.

The relay or Ford solenoid is a bandaid fix, but it works very well. Where normally the S wire would have to carry 20 or more amps when the engine is hot, with the relay in place it has to carry less than one amp. If the wiring can deliver enough current to start the car when the engine is cold, with the realy in place it will also start the car when it's hot.
 
#8 ·
Question; When you say the starter doesn't engage, do you hear the solenoid click?
Is there any indication that the starter system even exists when it's hot? Where is your battery located, under the hood?
How do you know your battery is OK?
Well, that's more than one question.:eek:
 
#9 ·
If all connections are in good condition, that leaves 2 options
1/If orginal wiring, and at some time in the cars history the ign / starter wire has been shorted, the surface layer of the strands of the wires in the insulation have become oxidised...current flows down the surfaces, not the core of a wire....this causes resitance with the same effect as a bad battery terminal... A relay mounted on the firewall just above the starter fixes this problem perminently.
2/Due to a high intial advance over a long period, which puts huge current loads on the armiture, causes dry/ bad joints in the armiture.
This may not be your car... if it was a rebuilt unit there is a good chance the armiture was not tested in a growler before rebuilding...
Fix is replace starter.
There is not enough heat able to be transfered from headers to case, to internals to damge a starter, but there is enough to warm the starter armiture enough to have any faulty connections in the armiture (or solenoid) to cause thses symtoms.

There is good reason why car manfactures , around the world, dont have intial above 10 degs... yet back yard people think they know better and wack intials advance up....this also increases the rate of the stock curve with performance increase, and puts a little more into the total, again a little better performace....over do it starter issues over time and inaudaitble detontaion slow death of the engine.
 
#10 ·
I posted my fuel answer after the OP stated he changed and checked everything related to starting circuit. I wish people knew the difference between " Not Starting " and " Not Cranking " or cranking slow.!!! There is a BIG difference in both problems. If the started is spinning fast..its not a starter or battery issue!!! In any event, seeing it must be either slow or no crank type issue AND the starter and grounds were checked, a battery issue could cause this and an ignition switch, bad coil which will fail until it cools off, also..not to mention bad wiring. IF ..all is fine the re..check the fuel issue as I stated earlier.

Kev
 
#13 ·
Welcome! It's great to have folks who know what an igniter is.
Psst, come close so I don't have to shout,,,,,,, what's an igniter?
 
#14 ·
Fred Ficarra, the ingniter to your pickup coil in your distributor is what sends the spark to your spark plugs so your engine fires up, it's basically an ignition box in your distributor was the problem I had with my 67 the igniter was fried so my engine wasn't getting a spark. I ended up putting in a new distributor and she fired up on a dime cold and hot. So I recommend looking inside your distributor and check if its bad or not.
 
#15 ·
Welcome! It's great to have folks who know what an igniter is.
Psst, come close so I don't have to shout,,,,,,, what's an igniter?
Fred Ficarra, the ingniter to your pickup coil in your distributor is what sends the spark to your spark plugs so your engine fires up, it's basically an ignition box in your distributor was the problem I had with my 67 the igniter was fried
Are we talking points here or what?
 
#17 ·
Try this.....get a screwdriver and see how much of the shaft you need to short across the solenoid post and battery post. Then run some electrical tape down the shaft to cover the rest of the shaft to make it safer. Next time you get it hot and it won't turn over good, grab your screwdriver and short across the solenoid lug and battery lug to see if it'll turn over. You can also check with the parts store to see if they have a remote starter button kit with clip on leads to do the same thing. You do not have to have the key on but MAKE SURE IT'S IN NEUTRAL.

If that works you can either find out what the issue is with your solenoid feed or just get a $5 relay and use your solenoid feed to engage it and send straight battery power to the solenoid....that is if your solenoid feed is good for at least 8-9V when it's hot.
 
#18 ·
I had a very similar problem with my 69 small block. It would get hot and not start until it cooled. Someone loaned me a race starter and it cured the problem. Unfortunately, it was only a loan. I then tried a new stock starter, old problem returned. I then tried a mini-starter from DB Electrical, old problem still there. I then purchased an expensive race starter just like the one my friend loaned me. The problem went away and did not come back. The starter I bought came from CSR, p/n CSI 100P. It was $300 and worth every penny.
 
#21 ·
Go to NAPA auto parts or where ever and get a High Torque starter.
'
I have wondered about this....So been doing a lot of digging, checking parts etc over the last few months...
When one checks out "Cranking Motors" in the AC Delco Electical Service Manual... they list pages of starters, and for our appliction a good couple pages... these are divided into 3 groups Cranking Motor Heavy duty and light aircraft.
Taking just our application... the difference in max and min cranking speeds, current draws os substantual....then there are the bulltins covering alsorts of things like testing with growlers to modification of armitures by undercutting insulation, and changes modifications in solenoid and brush assemblies....
Now I wonder just how many of feild, armitures and solenoids have been miss matched in rebuilt starters over the yrs...
I do know about armitures not under cut, and not being tested with growler, but thru these miss matches in along with tendency of many to over avance intials rather than using VAs to establish idle advance.
No bloody wonder we have so much trouble with starters...
It is not the GM starter at fault...it seems the poor aftermarket rebuilding selection of mismatched parts, and incorrect speced starters being sold on the selves for the wrong applications...

Because of this total aftermarket screw up, dont even bother replacing with a screwed around GM starter...
Do as Dennis suggests, get a solid feild type starter or a geared unit...with steel, not plastic gears in it.
 
#23 ·
When reading post's such as this one the first comment reads No no points and until reading members comments there is no way knowing what the article is about. This happens often, I am guessing this has been posted before!! Am I right or wrong on this. As you can read the topic: Starting issue on my 69. Just trying to clarify why Burns67ss, did not state his situation at the beginning of the Post!!!! Thanks, interested to find out why............... Also not mentioned but would assume first time owner's of a 69 Camaro know, that the clutch, if it has a clutch has to be engaged before the starter will engage, I did not know this when I purchased my 69 Camaro Convertible with a 4 speed......
 
#24 ·
When reading post's such as this one the first comment reads No no points and until reading members comments there is no way knowing what the article is about.
That's because you started reading the thread on page 2. It helps if you start on page 1.
 
#25 ·
The starter doesn't turn and you hear a click?
You've replaced the starter and solenoid and the problem hasn't changed?
Remember there are two circuits; the solenoid (that has two parts), and the starter motor.

The solenoid engages the starter drive (gear) and switches the starter motor on/off.

Since the solenoid isn't doing both its jobs, the circuit before it is to blame. You replaced the starter and solenoid, so they are unlikely culprits.

Try jumping from the battery to the solenoid S terminal.
 
#27 ·
Wow, I have the exact same issue, here is my thread
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=212630
I’ve got the engine harness and a line on a headlamp harness and underdash harness. I also plan on a tune up of the HEI distributor. When taking the old engine harness out I discovered the wires coming from the dist. Module that plug back in to the dist. to send the power to the module had some of the insulation cracked as well as I think a few wires maybe even broken. I’m hoping that when all the wires are replaced (under my hood was a mess of wire nuts and short sections of wire spliced together) and the connections getting power to the dist as well as the dist itself are in better shape that things will be better. Don’t remember how much detail I put in my post but when mine was messing up and I turned the key, nothing, absolute zero. Sometimes when it cooled down it would start but other times you needed to jump it and usually then it would start.
Of course, like I mentioned in my thread, I won’t know until April or May if the new starter fixed it, it’s garaged and soon the roads will be snow packed until spring. Good luck.
 
#28 ·
Here's another idea...mine would not start it got hot also but it was not all the time. Replaced solinoid,starter, checked ignition switch...switched to a high torque mini starter which helped a little. Finally traced the voltage from battery to the starter and found the neutral saftey switch had a very small voltage drop and another connection also had a very small drop. These both added up to enough of a drop when the car was hot that it would not ingage the solinoid because of the higher resistance. I took the neutral saftey switch apart and the dielectric grease was hard and the contact points had a glaze on them. Cleaned it up sanded the contacts and put new dielectric grease in it and have had no issues for a year. Believe me I was at wits end before I traced this down...Just check for a small ohm drop across ALL connections and switchs etc .
Any drop in ohms translates to a larger voltage drop. Mine was down to 9-10 volts going to the starter....BAD
 
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