[Jonesy]

[67 Plum]

Originally Posted by NHBandit

One more time... the POP is absolutely useless to ANYONE except the person who owns the car. Why is that concept so hard to understand ? Comparing this to an engine block.

The original vin stamped block is worth more to the original car than to anyone else.The POP validates the car just as good as the original block would.IMO

[frankk]

Originally Posted by NHBandit

One more time... the POP is absolutely useless to ANYONE except the person who owns the car. Why is that concept so hard to understand ? Comparing this to an engine block, intake manifold, or a radiator hose is just making excuses. How about we compare it to something that really is similar like the title to the car. Should that be for sale if it's found or does it belong with the car it matches up to ? William please take no offense to my comments. They were mainly due to my surprise at how many people here think it's ok to profit from something that cost nothing and has NO VALUE to anyone other than the person in posession of the car. So rather than do the honorable thing and send it to the guy it "goes back in the drawer".. Your choice to make I suppose since it's in your posession. Did it occur to you that just maybe he hasn't responded because he thinks the same way I do and takes offense to the shakedown ? Ask yourself this.. does it have any value to anyone other than the cars owner ? Is it good for anything other than a conversation piece to you ? You, of all people, being an upstanding member of the CRG should want to see it in the hands of the only person who should rightfully have it just to be sure it can't ever be used to fake a different car. You do know that's why people buy them on Ebay don't you ? The ones who don't get what I'm trying to say here never will understand.... I'm done. It seems I'm just spitting into the wind with most of the guys here anyway.. I actually like the fact that posts like this come up now & then. It's gives us all the chance to have a heart to heart talk with ourselves and ask ourselves "what would I do in a case like this" I will sleep just fine tonight knowing what MY answer to that question is.. As far as what's free.. From where I sit it appears that alot of the people who think everything should have a price are posting that opinion for free because they choose not to contribute to this site and in your case LuckyStar you're also selling a car in the FREE classifieds on here..

I agree with a lot that you have said... you make some good points. Heres the way I see it. It does only belong with one car, no question. William has made the effort to try and do just that by contacting the present owner. He could have just as well thrown it in the trash but he didn't, knowing the union of the pop with the current owner is a very precious thing.If the owner is interested but cannot afford the $500 then thats a matter between William and the owner. I know I wouldn't feel right if someone went to all the trouble of finding me and then offered to give me the pop. Personally I would want to pay for it.

[NHBandit]

Originally Posted by frankk

I agree with a lot that you have said... you make some good points. Heres the way I see it. It does only belong with one car, no question. William has made the effort to try and do just that by contacting the present owner. He could have just as well thrown it in the trash but he didn't, knowing the union of the pop with the current owner is a very precious thing.If the owner is interested but cannot afford the $500 then thats a matter between William and the owner. I know I wouldn't feel right if someone went to all the trouble of finding me and then offered to give me the pop. Personally I would want to pay for it.

It's all good and as I said before, my issue isn't with William. It's with the guys who said it's ok to bend the guy over because it will add greatly to the value of the car. Those types are usually the first ones to whine like little girls when it gets done to them... There is no honor anymore and I guess I just need to face that.

[ed s]

I thought I was the only guy with morals! Thanks Mark. To the guy that said I was ludicrious! He's a rapper! Barry bonds base ball? You are all @@#$#&^$!!!! Anyone with a pop that sold their car 20 flippin years ago that wouldn't gladly give it to the owner is a you know what! It cost you nothing! Don't compare it to a block or smog pump. Not the same! All you vultures suck! You guys ruin this hobbie!!!!

[1bad69z]

i guess i dont understand what the difference between the original block with a vin on it and pop with vin on it is different. i know if i had a block that was worth at least say 500 i would not give it to anybody and i know i am a giving person if it is something i dont need. but we are all trying to make a living and pop is valueable to collectors also.

[NHBandit]

Originally Posted by 1bad69z

i guess i dont understand what the difference between the original block with a vin on it and pop with vin on it is different. i know if i had a block that was worth at least say 500 i would not give it to anybody and i know i am a giving person if it is something i dont need. but we are all trying to make a living and pop is valueable to collectors also.

For the LAST time... a block has value to other people. Nobody normally gives them away for free because of that. BUT, using your $500 block as an example. Let's say it's worth 500 just as a good used block. BUT you find the VIN on it and you know who has the car with that VIN so now you demand that if he wants it the price is now $5000. For anyone else it's still just a $500 block. Pssst.. taking advantage of that guys situation is WRONG.. It's shady business and gives our hobby a bad name but as I have already said, it seems to be the norm these days rather than the exception.. The smell of money makes good people do bad things just like the smell of blood does to sharks... A POP is useless to anyone other than the person who has the car unless you want to use it to spread jelly on your toast... Why do I feel like I'm telling my kids for the tenth time why it's not ok to steal... And for the guys STILL wanting to make silly apples to oranges comparisons here's one... You just found a 4 year old child wandering down the street lost.. Do you wonder how much you should ask for ransom ? After all, you found him.... Yes I know it's not a fair comparison. I'm just sayin..... Have a great day everyone. I'm off to the local flea market if I can get the wife to get out of bed...

[KevinK7]

One thing stands out in this thread, ....everybody is different.
...good or bad.............

[braz28]

As i stated before, i would never sell the POP to the cars owner, however..prior to giving the POP i would make sure the cars owner is an enthusiast...not just a dealer/flipper.

If the guy as owned the car for many years, its obvious hes an enthusiast, but if it were one of those flipper/dealer vultures that makes the prices of these cars go thru the roof, i would have no problem selling it.

[af1fe]

Originally Posted by NHBandit

For the LAST time... a block has value to other people. Nobody normally gives them away for free because of that. BUT, using your $500 block as an example. Let's say it's worth 500 just as a good used block. BUT you find the VIN on it and you know who has the car with that VIN so now you demand that if he wants it the price is now $5000. For anyone else it's still just a $500 block. Pssst.. taking advantage of that guys situation is WRONG.. It's shady business and gives our hobby a bad name but as I have already said, it seems to be the norm these days rather than the exception.. The smell of money makes good people do bad things just like the smell of blood does to sharks... A POP is useless to anyone other than the person who has the car unless you want to use it to spread jelly on your toast... Why do I feel like I'm telling my kids for the tenth time why it's not ok to steal... And for the guys STILL wanting to make silly apples to oranges comparisons here's one... You just found a 4 year old child wandering down the street lost.. Do you wonder how much you should ask for ransom ? After all, you found him.... Yes I know it's not a fair comparison. I'm just sayin..... Have a great day everyone. I'm off to the local flea market if I can get the wife to get out of bed...

Mark I agree with you 100%. There are still others out there who also agree. Let me give you a couple of examples. When I got back into this hobby my wife and I went searching for a Z and after a couple of wild goose chases found one. It had been 23 years since I had owned a Camaro (plain jane 327 pg). I knew nothing about POP, cowl tags or people cloning them out. Mike W. is the gentleman who we purchased our Z from, he knew I was very green with knowledge about the car. Did he try to take advantage of us? No. He could have swapped out the 837 alt, smog, carb, AD wheels etc. Just before we drove off with the Z he gave us a binder with the POP, original bill of sale and 3 inches of receipts of the history of maint. on the car. Could he have kept them? Sure but he didn't. With that information I then tracked down the prior owners. Roger S. is one of them. I had asked him if he had any parts or photos of the car which he did and that he would gladly give to me (yes GIVE). The day I met him and his family he gave me a box that contained the original pistons, rods, volt reg. exhaust hanger, radiator cap and a few other neat items he could have easily sold on Ebay. Also gave me photos of the car showing how the factory paint was when he had the car. So yes there are the few out there who do the right thing, instead of $$$ make friends.

[ed s]

Now thats a stand up guy! That is exactly what I would do. So glad some of you have chimed in to stand up for the good people in this world! Im going back to the other sections of team camaro where people want to help each other! I hope the rightful owner of this car gets the pop and I hope he is just a guy that loves his car. Otherwise all this bickering is kinda a moot point. I almost hope he tells you to keep it for 500 bucks, he's keepin the car forever. Tough call, I know I could benefit to have mine and would be teed off if someone held me for ransome.

[Jeff H]

Well, since you guys are in such a good mood to give things away, I'll take a 69 L78 Camaro, a 69 COPO and a 69 Pace Car to go with my JL8! Honestly, you guys are a little out of touch with the hobby if you think people are willing to give away anything that is valuable. Should I just give away my crossram setup to somebody with a 307 car? If the guy with this L78 does not know his car is an original L78 car, then he would probably love to have the pop for it for $500. If he's in a tough financial situation then maybe he will have to wait. My bank account was below $1000 last year for most of the year and nobody was giving me free parts or free labor to help with the restoration of my JL8 car. Everything has it's $$$ value and it's just a matter of determining what fair market value is for a particular item. I bet if William listed that POP for sale for $1000 there would be quite a few people lined up to buy it. It doesn't just have value to the owner of the car. It has the most value though to the current owner of the car.

[NHBandit]

Originally Posted by Jeff H

I bet if William listed that POP for sale for $1000 there would be quite a few people lined up to buy it. It doesn't just have value to the owner of the car. It has the most value though to the current owner of the car.

Unbelievable.... Care to share with the rest of us just exactly WHY the POP would be valuable to someone other than the owner of the car with the matching VIN ? Do you feel that swapping VIN tags is ok too ? How about counterfiet trim tags or real tags that came from a car other than the one they are currently on ? I honestly can't believe some of the off the wall responses this thread has gotten... Comparing a little metal plate with no usefull (legal) purpose other than to document ONE particular car to an engine block or smog parts didn't fly so lets compare it to something even more valuable like a crossram. Give me a break.. It's an identifying tag particular to that car and only that car just like a VIN tag or a trim tag. It's not a "part". I'm totally amazed that on this website where we regularly castrate the Ebay dealers who sell trim tags & the Vendors who sell reproduction tags, build sheets, window stickers, & even rivets, etc. that there are so many of you who think selling a POP to anyone other than the owner of that car is OK. Maybe we should start a section in the classifieds for trim tags, POPs, etc.... William as a member of the CRG, what's your opinion on this ? Would you sell the POP to the highest bidder without any regard to what the buyer might do with it ? Got any trim tags for rare cars for sale ? I rather doubt you would condone that type of stuff but it seems like at least some of your supporters do... Oh and everyone who agrees with me that sometimes doing the right thing is more important than making a buck is "out of touch" That's fine. so be it. I can live with that...

[ed s]

Thank you Mark, these people are thick, thick, thick. I get it. Doesn't seem like you need to be a brain surgeon! Dude if you have a grand in your checking acct. Your alright! I have an avg. job, (My wifes job is better).Were not rich. I live in a kick a@# house, 67 bird, 68 rs ss convert that im working on. Party like a rock star, still give to church. Haven't seen a g in the checking acct. for more than a couple days ever! Can never have too much cash. That would be like havin too much fun! Would not even hesitate to give that pop to the rightful owner. All contingent that he isn't just lookin to go to Barret Jackson! Then maybe cut a deal, but..... Thats not the impression given from the start of this. Heartless people in this thread!!!

[NHBandit]

It does seem just a little odd for a guy who owns a JL8 crossram car to be crying poverty...