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  #16  
Old Jan 27th, 10, 09:49 AM
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mnm99 mnm99 is offline
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Marc
 
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Default Re: Twin turbo kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by okiemark View Post
http://nelsonracingengines.com/

you could spend all day looking at turbo stuff on Tom Nelson's site.
Yup nice, but $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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1968 Camaro Convertible ,350 TWIN TURBO , PTC 3000 stall, Hotchkis TVS kit / Subframe connectors, Caltracs, 9" rear, Street Star wheels (P275/40ZR17 / P235/45/17) , Electric cutouts. [B] .....FOR SALE.....
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  #17  
Old Jan 27th, 10, 01:27 PM
il_wolf_li il_wolf_li is offline

Brian
 
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Default Re: Twin turbo kit

Quote:
That kit was designed for Chevelles right?
No, we actually designed the kit on a first gen Camaro subframe since it's one of the tighter engine bays, that way we knew it would fit into numerous other cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mnm99 View Post
Very nice setup, but does that fit under a stock 2" cowl hood on a first gen. I'm building a twin and the hat HAS to be turned. I couldn't use the CSU hat. I went with the EV because of hood clearance and had to turn it. Also does the drivers side turbo hit the fender? Do you have any pics of the system installed in a car? Here's some pics of my hat and there was no way it would fit straight to the merge.
What intake are you running, carb spacer or nitrous plate? Is that EV hat the sloped version where you can't put it straight forward without some kind of 'hat spacer'?

Whether our system will clear or not depends on the motor mounts, which intake and which hat. The way our cold-side piping, 2 into 1 collector and carb hat hooks up allow's for the collector and pipes to be pulled down for added hood clearance if needed. I can't say for sure yes or no at this point since we haven't had our system in a gen 1 camaro yet. We just sent a system to a guy with one so hopefully he will be getting the car up and running here soon and report back. With the right mounts, intake, no spacer, the right carb hat and slope the intake pipes and collector down I think it should fit under a stock hood, if you switched over to EFI then it would for sure fit under the hood.

No, the driver's side turbo does not hit the inner fender, here are some pics of the setup in a first gen camaro subframe (both stage-1 & 2).

http://wrenchrat.com/gallery/

Pics of the system in a '67 Chevelle (tighter engine bay)





Another '67 Chevelle (434ci sbc, AFR heads... 887rwhp on pump gas (14lbs boost), 1,042rwhp on C16 (14lbs boost & 10 degrees more timing than pump)





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  #18  
Old Jan 27th, 10, 02:29 PM
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mnm99 mnm99 is offline
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Default Re: Twin turbo kit

I'm a little confused??? There was a question...

Question..That kit was designed for Chevelles right?

Answer...No, we actually designed the kit on a first gen Camaro subframe since it's one of the tighter engine bays, that way we knew it would fit into numerous other cars.

Then you say...
I can't say for sure yes or no at this point since we haven't had our system in a gen 1 camaro yet.

Your statement is correct..With the right mounts, intake, no spacer, the right carb hat and slope the intake pipes and collector down I think it should fit under a stock hood, if you switched over to EFI then it would for sure fit under the hood.

I have energy suspension mounts, performer RPM intake, no spacer on a EV sloped hat. It left me 1/2" clearance to the hood. The first gen is the FI right? in the pictures?
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1968 Camaro Convertible ,350 TWIN TURBO , PTC 3000 stall, Hotchkis TVS kit / Subframe connectors, Caltracs, 9" rear, Street Star wheels (P275/40ZR17 / P235/45/17) , Electric cutouts. [B] .....FOR SALE.....
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  #19  
Old Jan 27th, 10, 09:17 PM
il_wolf_li il_wolf_li is offline

Brian
 
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Default Re: Twin turbo kit

I'm sorry for the confusion... The system was designed on a gen1 camaro subframe (no body, no fenders, no inner fenders, no hood, etc... Just the subframe to make sure it cleared the frame rails, front suspension, and steering) so as far as hood clearance we're not completely sure yet. We hope to have a definite yes/no answer on the hood clearance question here soon.

The pictures are of 2 different '67 Chevelle's with our system in them. The first has a blow-thru carb 355sbc and the second has a FI 434sbc.
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  #20  
Old Jan 28th, 10, 03:34 AM
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mnm99 mnm99 is offline
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Default Re: Twin turbo kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by il_wolf_li View Post
I'm sorry for the confusion... The system was designed on a gen1 camaro subframe (no body, no fenders, no inner fenders, no hood, etc... Just the subframe to make sure it cleared the frame rails, front suspension, and steering) so as far as hood clearance we're not completely sure yet. We hope to have a definite yes/no answer on the hood clearance question here soon.

The pictures are of 2 different '67 Chevelle's with our system in them. The first has a blow-thru carb 355sbc and the second has a FI 434sbc.
Thanks...Now I understand. It would be great if it cleared because there are really no kits out there for people who just want to bolt on and go. Get back to us with the fitment. I really have doubts about the merge and hat clearance tough.
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1968 Camaro Convertible ,350 TWIN TURBO , PTC 3000 stall, Hotchkis TVS kit / Subframe connectors, Caltracs, 9" rear, Street Star wheels (P275/40ZR17 / P235/45/17) , Electric cutouts. [B] .....FOR SALE.....
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  #21  
Old Jan 28th, 10, 06:59 PM
il_wolf_li il_wolf_li is offline

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Default Re: Twin turbo kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by mnm99 View Post
Thanks...Now I understand. It would be great if it cleared because there are really no kits out there for people who just want to bolt on and go. Get back to us with the fitment. I really have doubts about the merge and hat clearance tough.
No problem, I'll definitely let you and everyone else know if it clears a stock hood or not once we find out. I think if it does clear it's gonna be pretty damn close! If it doesn't then a small cowl hood will be needed which isn't to bad of a trade-off considering the power potential.

mnm99, good luck with the rest of your build, checked your thread out and it's looking good, very nice work! One quick question, are you going to put a slip joint or bellow in your wastegate integration to the downpipe?

If anyone else has any questions feel free to post, shoot me a pm, email or give a quick call.

Brian Wolfe
wrenchratbw@comcast.net
(509)462-2934
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  #22  
Old Jan 29th, 10, 09:49 AM
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mnm99 mnm99 is offline
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Default Re: Twin turbo kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by il_wolf_li View Post
No problem, I'll definitely let you and everyone else know if it clears a stock hood or not once we find out. I think if it does clear it's gonna be pretty damn close! If it doesn't then a small cowl hood will be needed which isn't to bad of a trade-off considering the power potential.

mnm99, good luck with the rest of your build, checked your thread out and it's looking good, very nice work! One quick question, are you going to put a slip joint or bellow in your wastegate integration to the downpipe?

If anyone else has any questions feel free to post, shoot me a pm, email or give a quick call.

Brian Wolfe
wrenchratbw@comcast.net
(509)462-2934
The wastegate tube is getting tigged right to the down tube. what do you mean by slip joint? no bellow. Think that will be a problem? All the downtubes are mild steel. The headers and 90* are 304 stainless.
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1968 Camaro Convertible ,350 TWIN TURBO , PTC 3000 stall, Hotchkis TVS kit / Subframe connectors, Caltracs, 9" rear, Street Star wheels (P275/40ZR17 / P235/45/17) , Electric cutouts. [B] .....FOR SALE.....
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  #23  
Old Jan 30th, 10, 03:10 PM
il_wolf_li il_wolf_li is offline

Brian
 
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Default Re: Twin turbo kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by mnm99 View Post
The wastegate tube is getting tigged right to the down tube. what do you mean by slip joint? no bellow. Think that will be a problem? All the downtubes are mild steel. The headers and 90* are 304 stainless.
It would be a good idea to put a slip joint or bellow in your wastegate downpipe integration so it has less possibility of cracking/breaking. The pipe coming off of the wastegate goes from cool (cruising, no boost, wastegates closed) to red hot when your under WOT and the wastegates are opening to control boost. This causes extreme temperature changes and metal expansion/contraction that can crack/break the welds.
A slip joint is a female pipe that a male pipe slips into, this allows for movement from metal expansion/contraction (you want the female pipe on the downpipe and male pipe coming off the wastegate). A bellow can also be used but they're harder to weld on. When you first start the car with slip joints it will most likely have a minor exhaust leak/tick until the exhaust warms up and seals up. You can put copper rtv in the slip joint to help minimize the leak/tick (snowmobile guys use this for there slip joints on there exhaust, we also use it for our slip-joint, bellow setup on our systems).

Your header flanges are another item that can cause problems from heat expansion if not designed correctly. With a turbo car your seeing a lot higher exhaust temps than a regular header setup so there's more expansion/contraction happening. On a turbo system you want to use a thick header flange but have very little metal inbetween the exhaust ports. One easy way to do this is to cut 1/8" slices between the ports. The way we designed our header flanges was with a thin arched piece of metal between the ports, when the flange expands it will push up and expand at the arch. If you have 1 thick flange that has no room to expand correctly it will push outwards and against your header bolts, eventually shearing them off.

Brian Wolfe

Last edited by il_wolf_li; Jan 30th, 10 at 03:27 PM. Reason: wording change
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  #24  
Old Jan 31st, 10, 12:49 PM
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mnm99 mnm99 is offline
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Marc
 
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Default Re: Twin turbo kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by il_wolf_li View Post
It would be a good idea to put a slip joint or bellow in your wastegate downpipe integration so it has less possibility of cracking/breaking. The pipe coming off of the wastegate goes from cool (cruising, no boost, wastegates closed) to red hot when your under WOT and the wastegates are opening to control boost. This causes extreme temperature changes and metal expansion/contraction that can crack/break the welds.
A slip joint is a female pipe that a male pipe slips into, this allows for movement from metal expansion/contraction (you want the female pipe on the downpipe and male pipe coming off the wastegate). A bellow can also be used but they're harder to weld on. When you first start the car with slip joints it will most likely have a minor exhaust leak/tick until the exhaust warms up and seals up. You can put copper rtv in the slip joint to help minimize the leak/tick (snowmobile guys use this for there slip joints on there exhaust, we also use it for our slip-joint, bellow setup on our systems).

Your header flanges are another item that can cause problems from heat expansion if not designed correctly. With a turbo car your seeing a lot higher exhaust temps than a regular header setup so there's more expansion/contraction happening. On a turbo system you want to use a thick header flange but have very little metal inbetween the exhaust ports. One easy way to do this is to cut 1/8" slices between the ports. The way we designed our header flanges was with a thin arched piece of metal between the ports, when the flange expands it will push up and expand at the arch. If you have 1 thick flange that has no room to expand correctly it will push outwards and against your header bolts, eventually shearing them off.

Brian Wolfe
Thanks for your reply. As for the wastegate, I understand your concern. I was thinking of the same thing also. Since the downtube is Mild I'ts not going to expand as much a stainless. So we'll see what happens. It's already welded up. The headers have 1/2 flanges. Brian from BGturbos.com did all my welding and doesn't see a problem as it is. We'll see waht happens. I'm just concerned I get everything coated then I get cracks. , but I also don't want to wrap. Thanks again. Here are the headers. All purged and tig welded.
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1968 Camaro Convertible ,350 TWIN TURBO , PTC 3000 stall, Hotchkis TVS kit / Subframe connectors, Caltracs, 9" rear, Street Star wheels (P275/40ZR17 / P235/45/17) , Electric cutouts. [B] .....FOR SALE.....
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  #25  
Old Jan 31st, 10, 02:39 PM
golden_pilot golden_pilot is offline

 
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Default Re: Twin turbo kit

Been busy working on the car, haven't made it on here while. The Whipple superchargers are nice but I don't like the carb setup. Procharger would be less money and easier to install, which makes them even more appealing. Good eye mnm99 on the hood clearance! Didnít see that one. Thatís awesome your building your own tt system, I would have to learn more about tt before tackling that myself. It would save me a lot of money or possibly cost me more... lol. But as you said you have been building your for a year. Not sure if Iím up for that.
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  #26  
Old Jan 31st, 10, 03:58 PM
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mnm99 mnm99 is offline
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Marc
 
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Default Re: Twin turbo kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by golden_pilot View Post
Been busy working on the car, haven't made it on here while. The Whipple superchargers are nice but I don't like the carb setup. Procharger would be less money and easier to install, which makes them even more appealing. Good eye mnm99 on the hood clearance! Didnít see that one. Thatís awesome your building your own tt system, I would have to learn more about tt before tackling that myself. It would save me a lot of money or possibly cost me more... lol. But as you said you have been building your for a year. Not sure if Iím up for that.
Almost a year just for saving up for some parts and mostly fab. The fab has to be done in stages. I'm now done with the piping and welding. All the pipes have to be coated also. Everything is going back to normal for this summer (stock). Next stage is installing a wideband gauge, Fuel pressure gauge, New MSD 6al-2 and trans temp. Each gauge cost like $225 so that's what takes time too. After that is done the fuel system is next. That's like another grand. It will be done by the end of the summer. Next is the carb, that's another grand..So you can see why it's taking more time also.
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1968 Camaro Convertible ,350 TWIN TURBO , PTC 3000 stall, Hotchkis TVS kit / Subframe connectors, Caltracs, 9" rear, Street Star wheels (P275/40ZR17 / P235/45/17) , Electric cutouts. [B] .....FOR SALE.....
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