Auto to manual swap - Page 2 - Team Camaro Tech
Team Camaro Tech join team camaro
 
Camaro Parts at SS396.com     
GROUND UP & SS396.com         
Official Sponsor of Team Camaro
   

Auto Insurance



Registered users (free) do not see these large ads

Transmission & Driveline Transmissions and Differentials

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old Nov 18th, 12, 09:51 PM
TJS69 TJS69 is offline
Senior Tech

Tom
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rochester Mn
Posts: 6,872
Smile Re: Auto to manual swap

Whoa ! Eric, buddy take a deep breath ! This is not a competition ! We are both here to help people. I checked out your links and you are correct that those also show a pivot ball. I am not sure if the one I pictured just has a shipping plug though. Maybe somebody could help us answer that one. I was led to believe that all the small blocks were "fixed" and evidently that is not the case !

I will admit when I am wrong and I never claimed to know everything ! Just explain when I am wrong and we can go on ! I am not sure what else you think I am telling people that is not correct, but let me know !
__________________
69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 TPI transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17  
Old Nov 19th, 12, 05:23 AM
keithl1967 keithl1967 is offline
Gold Lifetime Member

Keith
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 1,220
Default Re: Auto to manual swap

The small block is also a pivot ball, it is just shipped pre-installed, so it looks liek a "fixed" stud...Leared this when I did my manual conversion a couple years ago...
__________________
Keith
1967 Camaro
406, 10:1, comp xr282HR, Dart Iron Eagle 200cc, Holley Contender dual plane, Holley 750 DP
Muncie M-20
GM 8.5, 3.73 posi
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old Nov 19th, 12, 06:01 AM
Vega$69's Avatar
Vega$69 Vega$69 is online now
Moderator

John
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,073
Default Re: Auto to manual swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by keithl1967 View Post
The small block is also a pivot ball, it is just shipped pre-installed, so it looks liek a "fixed" stud...Leared this when I did my manual conversion a couple years ago...
Correct. It would not work with a pivot on both ends.
__________________
69 Pro Tour - LS7/T56
69 LS2 Pro Tour (BUILDING)
69 Z28/RS Tribute355/5 Speed (SOLD)
69 RS Clone 427/TH400 (SOLD)
67 RSZZ502/5 Speed (SOLD)
69 Camaro 406 SBC/TH400 (SOLD)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old Nov 19th, 12, 07:58 AM
TJS69 TJS69 is offline
Senior Tech

Tom
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rochester Mn
Posts: 6,872
Smile Re: Auto to manual swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega$69 View Post
Correct. It would not work with a pivot on both ends.
Huh ? We just established that there IS a pivot ball on each end !
__________________
69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 TPI transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old Nov 19th, 12, 06:57 PM
TJS69 TJS69 is offline
Senior Tech

Tom
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rochester Mn
Posts: 6,872
Smile Re: Auto to manual swap

From Eric's rant :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Kammerer View Post

I would almost bet that the "fixed" SBC bar end in your pic is just a shipping plug not removed for the photo.

***Maybe it is and maybe it is not ! I agree the links you have posted, do show a pivot ball.***

It would also be likely to bind; think about what you keep saying. Are the upper and lower linkage holes on BBC unit drilled perpendicular, or at an angle? Every piece that attaches (upper clutch rod, lower swivel for SBC, lower rod for BBC) all go through holes at 90 degree angle and get a simple pin to secure. Are the arms off the tube twisted to allow these components to connect this way? NO!

***They do not need to be drilled at an angle, that is why it is mounted on pivot balls. The rest of the linkage has enough slop in it to allow the slight twisting. We are only talking about a 5 angle for the BBC ***

Both z bars mount the same way; the BBC z bar installed on a correctly installed BBC is not visibly cocked forward. It is same alignment as SBC and L6 bars.

***If this is not the case, then how does it magically account for a BBC that is mounted approximately 3/4" forward than that of SBC ?***
__________________
69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 TPI transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1

Last edited by TJS69; Nov 19th, 12 at 07:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old Nov 20th, 12, 04:56 PM
X-77 keith X-77 keith is offline
Senior Tech

keith
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Yorktown Va
Posts: 1,307
Default Re: Auto to manual swap

Ball on both ends and one grease fitting. Teflon like bowls that fit inside the tube for the ball to fit in " hold it snug not floppy" . Works just like the ball and socket of your feamer bone and hip socket.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old Nov 26th, 12, 03:33 PM
Eric Kammerer Eric Kammerer is offline
Senior Tech

 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Southeast PA
Posts: 8,302
Default Re: Auto to manual swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJS69 View Post
Sorry, Eric you are misinformed on the z-bar.

The small block z bar is mounted to the frame by a small stud.



The big Block z bar is longer and there is a pivot ball on the frame and engine, allowing the z bar to sit at an angle due to the engine pivot ball being 3/4" farther forward.




So that patronizing "sorry, you're wrong" wasn't supposed to set me off? I'm sorry, but I know you are very active here and give a lot of advice... But when you say things so definitively and with little pictures with circles and arrows, and a paragraph on the back of each on, explainin what each one was (not too late for a little "Alice's Restaurant" reference), and say things like a small block z-bar has a fixed stud on the end... And that a 1st gen BBC z-bar sits at an angle, folks start to question your advice.

You and I have butted heads on 1st gen BBC install info before, and even when I have bothered Jerry M. to clarify what I understand to be true, and have tried to get you to understand things like z-bar mounting, you go back to passing on erroneous info.

And when I try to get you to think it through, about details like if the bar was meant to be installed crooked, why would the linkage holes remain perpendicular and the rod ends 90 degrees, you just don't address that at all.

So I am not ranting. I just get tired of trying to explain. I installed my BBC and manual the way the AIM, Jerry's book, personal close up examinations of OE installs, etc. I've done a lot of research, and have plenty of hands on BBC and BBC installs in 1st gens. Likewise with SBC. I don't know where you learned what you think you know.

Mods, you can delete this if you want; I would have PM'ed if I cared enough, but I just don't like erroneous info being spoken as gospel.

Likewise to Ron, the OP, I hope your work is going okay and you know what you need to know. Post back or PM if you need more.
__________________
Eric
69 'vert project big block/TKO 600 RR
68 'vert driver RS clone -- gone!
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old Nov 27th, 12, 05:15 PM
ks3racing ks3racing is offline

Ron
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: north central In.
Posts: 17
Default Re: Auto to manual swap

pulled engine,measured stands,looked at all pics I could find and found they were the correct stands! But they were reversed! now engine is centered and to close to firewall with HEI without riggin(BFH) so will go with diff dist! Problem solved -Wrong now bellhousing hits firewall on drivers side, also shift linkage hits tunnel. tail shaft is centered between frame rails, Did someone install new floor and get it half inch to pass side? about to put auto back in.
__________________
cubic inches are your friend and you cannot have to many friends!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old Nov 27th, 12, 06:15 PM
TJS69 TJS69 is offline
Senior Tech

Tom
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rochester Mn
Posts: 6,872
Smile Re: Auto to manual swap

Do you have a SBC transmission crossmember or a BBC transmission crossmember ? They have to match your frame stands.

I thought you said your engine was offset to the passenger side ? By reversing frame stands it would offset the engine to the driver's side and be way to far forward. Post pictures of what you have.

What frame stands do you have ?
__________________
69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 TPI transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old Nov 27th, 12, 07:06 PM
ks3racing ks3racing is offline

Ron
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: north central In.
Posts: 17
Default Re: Auto to manual swap

TJS69. your thinking if they are in correct and you reverse them! it moved 2" back and centered engine. stands were totaly over crossmember and now over hang to the rear a bit. trans crossmember is the flat(not tubular) and still bolts up fine in rear holes in subframe. Thanks again for all help!
__________________
cubic inches are your friend and you cannot have to many friends!
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old Nov 27th, 12, 07:09 PM
ks3racing ks3racing is offline

Ron
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: north central In.
Posts: 17
Default Re: Auto to manual swap

Yes engine was ofset to pass side by 1" now dead center
__________________
cubic inches are your friend and you cannot have to many friends!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old Nov 27th, 12, 07:42 PM
TJS69 TJS69 is offline
Senior Tech

Tom
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rochester Mn
Posts: 6,872
Smile Re: Auto to manual swap

Well, if you are happy... we are all happy !
__________________
69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 TPI transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old Nov 27th, 12, 07:52 PM
ks3racing ks3racing is offline

Ron
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: north central In.
Posts: 17
Default Re: Auto to manual swap

I am far from happy!
__________________
cubic inches are your friend and you cannot have to many friends!
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old Nov 27th, 12, 08:38 PM
Vega$69's Avatar
Vega$69 Vega$69 is online now
Moderator

John
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,073
Default Re: Auto to manual swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJS69 View Post
Huh ? We just established that there IS a pivot ball on each end !
With a pivot on both ends. Yes! Stupid auto correct
__________________
69 Pro Tour - LS7/T56
69 LS2 Pro Tour (BUILDING)
69 Z28/RS Tribute355/5 Speed (SOLD)
69 RS Clone 427/TH400 (SOLD)
67 RSZZ502/5 Speed (SOLD)
69 Camaro 406 SBC/TH400 (SOLD)
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old Nov 27th, 12, 09:31 PM
TJS69 TJS69 is offline
Senior Tech

Tom
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rochester Mn
Posts: 6,872
Smile Re: Auto to manual swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by ks3racing View Post
I am far from happy!
If you have GM made frame stands, there will be a part number stamped into them. Were the frame stands the same height ? Big Block stands are different heights. The driver's side stand is about 1/2" taller on BBC stands. SBC stands should be approximately the same height. It originally sounded like you had big block stands, because you had the correct offset. Now you say that you reversed the stands, and now it is on center. That would indicate SBC stands. So, which do you have ?

Below, are pictures of the cut out (Bolt) area of the transmission crossmember. The top crossmember is for a small block. The bottom one is a big block.



__________________
69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 TPI transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:31 PM.



Camaros.net - 2009 AutoForums.com