Doing a PDB install: Have some questions - Page 2 - Team Camaro Tech
Team Camaro Tech join team camaro
 
Camaro Parts at SS396.com     
GROUND UP & SS396.com         
Official Sponsor of Team Camaro
   

Auto Insurance



Registered users (free) do not see these large ads

Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions, Steering & Handling

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old Jan 1st, 13, 04:35 PM
cool rocking daddy cool rocking daddy is offline
Banned

Chet
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Detroit
Posts: 749
Default Re: Doing a PDB install: Have some questions

STOP! Don't do anything else until you get a Chassis Service Manual and an Assembly Manual. If you don't have any mechanic friends, find some. Go to the local Camaro club or call them and see if they can refer a member to you to come over and help you. You have undertaken the task of not only changing the braking system on your car but also modifying the stock suspension without any real idea of what you are doing. Sorry to sound so harsh, but you need experienced eyes to check out what you have done and make sure it is SAFE. Right now, it doesn't sound like it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17  
Old Jan 1st, 13, 06:10 PM
Gbauer Gbauer is offline
Senior Tech

George
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 2,165
Question Re: Doing a PDB install: Have some questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by cool rocking daddy View Post
STOP! Don't do anything else until you get a Chassis Service Manual and an Assembly Manual. If you don't have any mechanic friends, find some. Go to the local Camaro club or call them and see if they can refer a member to you to come over and help you. You have undertaken the task of not only changing the braking system on your car but also modifying the stock suspension without any real idea of what you are doing. Sorry to sound so harsh, but you need experienced eyes to check out what you have done and make sure it is SAFE. Right now, it doesn't sound like it.
Thanks for the concern but I'm actually quite experienced. I simply haven't worked on a 40+ year old car before. I've built and raced BMW's, tinkered with a few Porsche's, built a rather nasty WJ V8 Jeep and started off with Nissans. All were 1990's to 2000's models.

That said old cars are most certainly different! The questions I'm asking are only being asked because the answers aren't spelled out in the manuals like they are for modern cars. In fact it amazes me that the manuals are so poorly written. I mean a Porsche or BMW might be more of a pain to work on but at least the tech literature is clear, concise and complete.

The modifications to the stock suspension are not changing any geometries nor are they major changes. The grinding I did was extra material on a non- critical area of the spindle. (I'm a mechanical engineer: I used to design parts like this for industrial equipment). I wouldn't remove material that would compromise the safety of the part in any way.

I'm not saying that I've done this a thousand times but this isn't the first time I've worked on a car either.
__________________
1968 Base hardtop 250... for now
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18  
Old Jan 1st, 13, 06:32 PM
cool rocking daddy cool rocking daddy is offline
Banned

Chet
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Detroit
Posts: 749
Default Re: Doing a PDB install: Have some questions

Your car, your life. The questions you asked are not indicative of somebody who knows what they are doing. Like I said, your car, your life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gbauer View Post
Thanks for the concern but I'm actually quite experienced. I simply haven't worked on a 40+ year old car before. I've built and raced BMW's, tinkered with a few Porsche's, built a rather nasty WJ V8 Jeep and started off with Nissans. All were 1990's to 2000's models.

That said old cars are most certainly different! The questions I'm asking are only being asked because the answers aren't spelled out in the manuals like they are for modern cars. In fact it amazes me that the manuals are so poorly written. I mean a Porsche or BMW might be more of a pain to work on but at least the tech literature is clear, concise and complete.

The modifications to the stock suspension are not changing any geometries nor are they major changes. The grinding I did was extra material on a non- critical area of the spindle. (I'm a mechanical engineer: I used to design parts like this for industrial equipment). I wouldn't remove material that would compromise the safety of the part in any way.

I'm not saying that I've done this a thousand times but this isn't the first time I've worked on a car either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19  
Old Jan 3rd, 13, 08:31 AM
Gbauer Gbauer is offline
Senior Tech

George
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 2,165
Default Re: Doing a PDB install: Have some questions

OK... back on topic here...

Attaching the brake peddle to the booster: I know I need about 1/4" of play and that I might need to adjust it after the system is bled but what is the proper procedure for assembling the peddle/rod/booster bit under the dash?

There's not a lot of space up there and I'm getting a bit frustrated with this part. I've had some time to think about it a bit more and I'm thinking that I should put it together this way:

Thread the rod onto the connecting U-joint with the booster out of the car and the locking nut all the way down the thread for later. Mount the booster. Remove the peddle completely. Use the cotter pin and mount the peddle to the booster and spring while top hinge pin for the peddle is lose. Mount that pin last.

Is this correct?

The factory assembly manual doesn't clearly state the order to do this and the lack of room up there makes it difficult to get the connecting pin through the U-bracket while connecting the spring. I think it would be easier to connect that bit first then the actual peddle hinge last but I haven't tried it yet.

Also removing the darn seat because trying to be a gymnast while assembling this part of the project is killing my back! 4 bolts aren't worth the pain....
__________________
1968 Base hardtop 250... for now
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20  
Old Jan 3rd, 13, 09:38 AM
Melrose RS Melrose RS is online now
Gold Lifetime Member

Tom
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: wicked close ta Boston
Posts: 5,354
Default Re: Doing a PDB install: Have some questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gbauer View Post
OK... back on topic here...

Attaching the brake peddle to the booster: I know I need about 1/4" of play and that I might need to adjust it after the system is bled but what is the proper procedure for assembling the peddle/rod/booster bit under the dash?

There's not a lot of space up there and I'm getting a bit frustrated with this part. I've had some time to think about it a bit more and I'm thinking that I should put it together this way:

Thread the rod onto the connecting U-joint with the booster out of the car and the locking nut all the way down the thread for later. Mount the booster. Remove the peddle completely. Use the cotter pin and mount the peddle to the booster and spring while top hinge pin for the peddle is lose. Mount that pin last.

Is this correct?

The factory assembly manual doesn't clearly state the order to do this and the lack of room up there makes it difficult to get the connecting pin through the U-bracket while connecting the spring. I think it would be easier to connect that bit first then the actual peddle hinge last but I haven't tried it yet.

Also removing the darn seat because trying to be a gymnast while assembling this part of the project is killing my back! 4 bolts aren't worth the pain....
Definitely agree with removing the seat. Why torture yourself over four easy bolts. I did a swap not too long ago and removing the brake pedal to attach the clevis was the best way for me to work on it. My car is a stick so the clutch pedal was in the way but I disconnected the linkage to let it go to the floor for more clearance. If I recall correctly, my booster had the rod with threads on it and lock nut and it was not difficult to thread that into the clevis when the brake pedal was hung back in place. You should no longer need the return spring that was used with the non-power drums. Be sure to use the lower hole in the brake pedal to pass the clevis pin through. My aftermarket pedal's hole was too small and I had to bore it out a little.
__________________
'67 rs - ordered new by my Grandfather
327 L30, K-K, Deluxe int, tach & gauges, 12 bolt posi, 4 speed.
the Melrose rs - L30 327/275hp

Last edited by Melrose RS; Jan 3rd, 13 at 09:56 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21  
Old Jan 3rd, 13, 09:51 AM
Gbauer Gbauer is offline
Senior Tech

George
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 2,165
Default Re: Doing a PDB install: Have some questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose RS View Post
Definitely agree with removing the seat. Why torture yourself over four easy bolts. I did a swap not too long ago and removing the brake pedal to attach the clevis was the best way for me to work on it. My car is a stick so the clutch pedal was in the way but I disconnected the linkage to let it go to the floor for more clearance. If I recall correctly, my booster had the rod with threads on it and lock nut and it was not difficult to thread that into the cleavis when the brake pedal was hung back in place. You should no longer need the return spring that was used with the non-power drums. Be sure to use the lower hole in the brake pedal to pass the clevis pin through. My aftermarket pedal's hole was too small and I had to bore it out a little.
Thanks for the tip on not needing the spring! That was the biggest PITA of this whole portion of the project. Also the lower hole will certainly make things easier. I was wondering how the heck it was supposed to line up on the upper hole. It didn't look right.

Also the rod on this booster doesn't have a nice ridged boss to grab onto... poor design. I think I have a burr that needs to be chased before threading the clevis because it's getting bound up.

L6 250 owners: where should I attach the vacuum hose on the engine side? Is there a plugged hole in the valve cover already in place (haven't looked at the back of the valve cover yet: only had the car 3 weeks now...) or do I need to make one and if so where would be ideal?

Once again directions are lacking for the kit and the service / build manuals don't show this stuff.

...on another note: I definitely need to pick up some ratcheting SAE wrenches. I never realized how often I used them on my previous cars (metric). Best tools one can buy!
__________________
1968 Base hardtop 250... for now
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22  
Old Jan 3rd, 13, 10:07 AM
Melrose RS Melrose RS is online now
Gold Lifetime Member

Tom
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: wicked close ta Boston
Posts: 5,354
Default Re: Doing a PDB install: Have some questions

Sounds like your kit came without instructions. Mine had some decent instructions but not completely detailed. When it is all back together and bled, make sure you can easily turn the wheels by hand with little drag. If the drag is too tight, back off the mount nuts on the master allowing it to move away from the booster a bit and see if the drag decreases. I needed to shim mine out about .060" with washers as a test. Then you should cut down the plunger pin the same amount and remove the washers. (I've left the washers in place) The surprise was how much difference .060" made.
__________________
'67 rs - ordered new by my Grandfather
327 L30, K-K, Deluxe int, tach & gauges, 12 bolt posi, 4 speed.
the Melrose rs - L30 327/275hp
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23  
Old Jan 3rd, 13, 10:25 AM
Melrose RS Melrose RS is online now
Gold Lifetime Member

Tom
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: wicked close ta Boston
Posts: 5,354
Default Re: Doing a PDB install: Have some questions

George, here is the thread from my swap. It might save you a headache or two. http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=208255
__________________
'67 rs - ordered new by my Grandfather
327 L30, K-K, Deluxe int, tach & gauges, 12 bolt posi, 4 speed.
the Melrose rs - L30 327/275hp
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24  
Old Jan 3rd, 13, 11:34 AM
Gbauer Gbauer is offline
Senior Tech

George
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 2,165
Default Re: Doing a PDB install: Have some questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose RS View Post
George, here is the thread from my swap. It might save you a headache or two. http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=208255
Thanks! Reading it now.

Quick question: the white plug here (drawing a blank on the name of the darn thing!): How did you remove the old one from the car? Does it pop off the plug that's screwed into the distribution block or is there some trick to removing it? I unscrewed it from the old distribution block and have left it connected for now.



(red arrow pointing to white plug thingy... darnit! If someone can remind me what it's called I would appreciate it!)
__________________
1968 Base hardtop 250... for now
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25  
Old Jan 3rd, 13, 12:24 PM
Melrose RS Melrose RS is online now
Gold Lifetime Member

Tom
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: wicked close ta Boston
Posts: 5,354
Default Re: Doing a PDB install: Have some questions

I left the white plug in place on the distribution block because the kit came with a connector to fit it. So I used the new connector by attaching it to the existing wire(which iirc, was a brown wire). Maybe you need to purchase a connector if it did not come with the kit. A wire with an alligator clip on each end will get you by temporarily.
__________________
'67 rs - ordered new by my Grandfather
327 L30, K-K, Deluxe int, tach & gauges, 12 bolt posi, 4 speed.
the Melrose rs - L30 327/275hp
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #26  
Old Jan 3rd, 13, 02:44 PM
Gbauer Gbauer is offline
Senior Tech

George
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 2,165
Default Re: Doing a PDB install: Have some questions

Good news! Contacted the seller and they're shipping the connector.

.. unfortunately they don't make a front to back rear brake line so I'll have to fab that up. Hopefully I can get ahold of a buddy of mine that has built some of the country's fastest Camaro's to come over and lend a hand for the last bit of this.
__________________
1968 Base hardtop 250... for now

Last edited by Gbauer; Jan 3rd, 13 at 02:55 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27  
Old Jan 3rd, 13, 07:14 PM
scblucam's Avatar
scblucam scblucam is offline
Gold Lifetime Member

Scott
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,377
Default Re: Doing a PDB install: Have some questions

You can get the front to back brake line from Inline Tube. You can find them here somewhere or Google them.
__________________
68 302 M20 - 85 IROC Z
The older I get the faster I was.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #28  
Old Jan 4th, 13, 07:36 AM
Gbauer Gbauer is offline
Senior Tech

George
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 2,165
Default Re: Doing a PDB install: Have some questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by scblucam View Post
You can get the front to back brake line from Inline Tube. You can find them here somewhere or Google them.
I actually bought the flaring tool set, tubing, bender and copper fittings last night to do this. I'm going to give it a go myself (hopefully with the help of a mechanic friend of mine) tomorrow. I can get the original line out in one piece.

I'm replacing all the lines all the way to the wheels. No reason to trust 45 year old brake lines when new ones are cheap to DIY.
__________________
1968 Base hardtop 250... for now
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29  
Old Jan 4th, 13, 08:08 AM
Sauron67MM Sauron67MM is offline
Senior Tech

Scott
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 5,847
Default Re: Doing a PDB install: Have some questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gbauer View Post
I actually bought the flaring tool set, tubing, bender and copper fittings last night to do this.
What copper fittings?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30  
Old Jan 4th, 13, 08:31 AM
BobKovacs BobKovacs is offline
Senior Tech

Bob
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Holly Springs, GA
Posts: 1,350
Default Re: Doing a PDB install: Have some questions

The front-to-rear line has quite a few twists and turns- it breaks over the subframe, has some zigzags to accomodate body movement, and takes a 180 degree turn at the rear diff hose. I hope you have the old line to follow as a template.....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply
Team Camaro Tech > First Generation Camaro Info and Tech - 1967- 1969 "Where it all started" > Brakes, Suspension & Steering      Current Topic: Doing a PDB install: Have some questions
Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Team Camaro Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address.
NOTE we receive a lot of registrations with bad email addresses. IF you do not receive your confirmation email you will not be able to post. contact support and we will try and help.
Be sure you enter a valid email address and check your spam folder as well.

Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:46 AM.



Camaros.net - 2009 AutoForums.com