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Are we a dying breed ?

14K views 92 replies 43 participants last post by  Stone_Cold 
#1 ·
I saw a thread by Vince (3forme) called "future generation". It made me think about the future of our hobby. What do you guys believe will become of the muscle car scene ? Maybe museums full of cars rather than cruise ins or car shows or seeing them rolling down the streets on a summer night. I'm not seeing that many young guys in the scene. I think they are more in to I- phones and X box.
I've heard the argument that young guys cant afford these cars and thats why they drive imports with fart pipes and huge speakers in the trunk. Then years from now what happens to our cars ? Will our beneficiaries sell them ? To who ?
In the 60s and 70s there were tons of young guys driving these cars. Now that same generation is driving them.
 
#77 ·
I have a friend with a fart can tuner ricer. Yeah it makes 600 horses at the wheels (all wheel drive I think) and can beat my 69 Camaro in a quarter mile. But its the ride that makes the difference. There is just something about a carbureted V8 with headers and duals that feels special when you put your foot into it. Even the way the car handles and pulls. The feel of the frame fighting against the frame ties as the 4.10 posi rear end locks up. Oh yeah! There's something special about a classic muscle car that the new breed of cars (even the new Camaros and Mustangs) can't replicate that sets the classics aside from the rest.
 
#79 ·
But its the ride that makes the difference. There is just something about a carbureted V8 with headers and duals that feels special when you put your foot into it. Even the way the car handles and pulls. The feel of the frame fighting against the frame ties as the 4.10 posi rear end locks up. Oh yeah! There's something special about a classic muscle car that the new breed of cars (even the new Camaros and Mustangs) can't replicate that sets the classics aside from the rest.
 
#78 ·
I think you can make the argument that an automotive “breed” dies when the automotive values and value system of the breed dies. So to answer your question – which I think is an interesting one – we need to know what the automotive values ARE of the breed and then we need to look around and see if it exists in the next generation(s) or even to what extent it exists in ours.

If what we value is loud cars with engines popping out the hood, big fat tires and burnouts, I’d say the “breed” is nearly extinct as it is. Now on the other hand if what we value is more traditional “performance” (e.g., handling, braking, acceleration) and the joy and freedom of modifying a car to go/stop/handle better, then there will always be a sub-set of society that is into these things.

When I drove a blown big-block ’69 Camaro for five years w/ big fat tires and the engine sticking out the hood, I began to feel like the entire scene was socially irrelevant, which may just be a personal problem. But feeling socially irrelevant is a powerful motivation to seek out a modern version of a muscle car, something with safety, gadgets, braking, handling, no risk of the steering wheel going through my chest in a head-on, etc…Also, I think if you want to get the younger folks interested in your muscle car – drive it. Show that it is a viable form of transportation and not something that just shows up for car shows then you never see one until the next show. I think we’re contributing to the death of the breed by being so timid of rock chips, water rust and fender benders to the point where we are more caretakers than drivers. Young people see us coddle our cars and it’s a turn off?

A theoretical physicist once said that support for a competing theory will diminish "one funeral at a time". I'd say its possible that the overall "breed" is growing but the muscle car of the late '60's part is diminishing.
 
#80 ·
I think you can make the argument that an automotive “breed” dies when the automotive values and value system of the breed dies. So to answer your question – which I think is an interesting one – we need to know what the automotive values ARE of the breed and then we need to look around and see if it exists in the next generation(s) or even to what extent it exists in ours.

If what we value is loud cars with engines popping out the hood, big fat tires and burnouts, I’d say the “breed” is nearly extinct as it is. Now on the other hand if what we value is more traditional “performance” (e.g., handling, braking, acceleration) and the joy and freedom of modifying a car to go/stop/handle better, then there will always be a sub-set of society that is into these things.

When I drove a blown big-block ’69 Camaro for five years w/ big fat tires and the engine sticking out the hood, I began to feel like the entire scene was socially irrelevant, which may just be a personal problem. But feeling socially irrelevant is a powerful motivation to seek out a modern version of a muscle car, something with safety, gadgets, braking, handling, no risk of the steering wheel going through my chest in a head-on, etc…Also, I think if you want to get the younger folks interested in your muscle car – drive it. Show that it is a viable form of transportation and not something that just shows up for car shows then you never see one until the next show. I think we’re contributing to the death of the breed by being so timid of rock chips, water rust and fender benders to the point where we are more caretakers than drivers. Young people see us coddle our cars and it’s a turn off?

A theoretical physicist once said that support for a competing theory will diminish "one funeral at a time". I'd say its possible that the overall "breed" is growing but the muscle car of the late '60's part is diminishing.
Chris, all valid points
 
#81 ·
People are importing old US cars to all parts of the world.
Are they importing old Datsuns?

We're not old, we've just been exported ;)

In a few years, the kids will be putting whitewalls on Camaros.

So, yes, and no... ;)

We thought what our kids did was wrong, why would we think differently?
 
#85 ·
The hobby isn't changing,we are. We are becoming the old timers of our generation. I didn't start out with a 73 Camaro back in 1989 because I wanted a classic car,I bought it because it was cheap and fast and there were plenty of hand me down used performance parts floating around my high school. Today I still own both my cars from back then mostly as a way to stay connected to my youth. Back then I had no interest in a 57 Chevy or 32 Ford,because THE car to have in high school back in 1989 was a 2nd gen Camaro jacked up on air shocks and N50's with Cherrybombs hanging off the rusty headers. Today's youth are looking for that cheap and easy to soup up 15-20 year old car that they can wrench on in their parent's driveway,and those cars will be what makes a lasting impression on them. Don't fault them,they are just like us. I don't see many of us hanging out on tri five forums or early iron forums,as a matter of fact the short time I spent trolling around on the HAMB had them mad at me because I would try to compare even the slightest thing between what we do and what they do. They view muscle cars as too new and modern to be considered a real classic. To each their own I guess.

When I started out in 1988 with my 67 Cutlass,I was 17 and the car was 21,and even that car was old by the standards of that day. Most kids who were into cars back then owned 73 and later Camaros. My 73 was 16 years old when I bought it in 89. To convert that to day,it would be like a high schooler buying a mid 90's Camaro or Mustang as their old and cheap hot rod. Even a late 80's fox stang is old to a kid starting out in the hobby today.

This also relates to the attitude about fart cans and shopping cart wings. Let's all take a look back at our roots. If you ever cruised around town in an old car jacked up in the back with 50's hanging out,glass packs,window louvers, primer anything,or had a mullet,then you need to STFU about kids and ricers.
 
#86 ·
36 year old noob here.

The price point is what scared me away for so long. My wife (32) and I had wanted a 69 Camaro since before we knew each other.

I just found a 1968 that's prestine with 20k ORIGINAL miles on it. It only has the L6 engine but I think it's worth welcoming into the family. Hopefully we'll bring her home before Thanksgiving.

For us young pups it's about A) money, and B) a place to keep it nice and warm and dry. We're lucky that we can do this even after 6 years of a garbage economy.

I've had fast cars before but not a muscle car. The closest thing I've had to the raw feeling of a camaro was a 1998 BMW M Roadster. You might think I'm nuts saying it was close but it had 275 hp, 275 ft-lbs of torque, RWD and no traction control on a very short wheel base. It even rocked back and forth when revved!

Now I get to put away the computer-driven cars and start to get back to the roots of the automobile. I look forward to a giant hunk of cast iron under the hood that can take abuse instead of being handled with kid gloves. I revel in the thought of tuning an engine with a screwdriver instead of a computer. I'm REALLY looking forward to having room under the hood! Who knows? Perhaps some of the tricks I learned on the little engines will come in handy on the bigger one? A 250 might sound small to you guys but to me that's a behemoth! I look forward to squeezing every pony out of it I can! I've already built and rebuilt this engine a dozen times in my head and it's not even in my garage yet! I know what I'm going to buy and when. I know what tools I'm going to dust off (SAE? What's that?!?! I think I have some of those somewhere in the bottom of my tool box...). I know what transmission I'm going to get, what differential, what suspension, what PDB setup, what radiator, what electric fan, what rims and tires, what sway bars... It's already built in my mind and I love it! Maybe once I run out of old technology to use on it I'll start to incorporate some new stuff. Who knows where it'll end up because, as I'm sure you all know for yourselves, a good car is never done.

So, no, you're not a dying breed. You simply need to pass along your knowledge and skills to the next generation of liquefied petroleum sniffing gear heads. We won't let you down. I promise.

If you don't believe me show up at one of those ricer meets with a true muscle car. I guarantee you every one of those kids will come running over and stare at your car with real envy and, I dare say, lust.
 
#87 ·
I'm a 40 year old newb too - joined a few months ago. Its takin me a long time to get my hands on a 69. I spent a grip- because I have small kids, spend enough time away at work and didn't want a project that would need years to finish. I went middle ground and spent enough money so that I can drive while info my upgrades etc. Like you, I own a M car, M3. It will smoke my 396 no doubt about it but I never got high fives, fist pumps or(true story) people holding signs out there car that says 'Nice wheels'. That kind appreciation from all demographics of people makes my investment(?) worthit as well as communicating that our culture still appreciates this American nostalgia. American muscle will never die only get more expensive. People will just turn to building Mustangs since they are cra...I mean les expensive. I was unclear as to what the demographic was here until the Age poll , and it's clear that its old(er) money in the hobby. I theorize it's an older demo here , purists perhaps? As the pro touring boards seem to sway a bit younger. Nothing wrong with either side of the 40 year old line-- but I believe it's because you see less original preservation on the PT boards and more embrace net of new technologies, LS motors etc.... For me , I love the PT suspension with the grunt of a BBC. I consider myself a tweener between the 2 boards I follow. I build and drive what I like. Hopefully the youngsters will too.
 
#88 ·
My 4 year old son already told me he wants my camaro when he's older. LOL. I'm doing my part. He knows there's something special about muscle cars. He loves the smell, the noise, the color, the styling etc. He knows its old and he loves it. He calls my 2009 G6 "the junker."

He's not so much a fan of car shows and alot of them are boring, he enjoys going for a cruise a whole lot more. He even gets excited when I'm just backing the car out of the garage. The smile on his face when I pick him up from preschool says it all. He's 4 and he gets it. He may grow out of it, but I think he's hooked.
 
#89 ·
I look forward to picking up my 3 year old from pre-school in the '68 next spring. :D

Yet one more reason to buy it. :yes:
 
#90 ·
Popularity seems to be on the rise from my observations. People wanting to make their muscle cars perform more like modern cars in many respects is feeding the after-market parts industry and in turn, them putting out great stuff is making us want to keep improving our rides. It so easy today thanks to all the great entrepreneurial companies out their innovating.

The simplicity which one can improve upon the antiquated original suspension, brakes, steering, etc these days makes the '0l cars more appealing to younger genertions who otherwise wouldn't be interested in them due to inherent oriignal design limitations.

On the downside (at least as I see it) is that the escalated values of these cars is taking them farther away from commonfolk and putting more of them into collections, investments, trailer/show queens, etc and essentially taking them off the streets. I think that direction detracts from the authenticity and pureness that is the most attractive part of the hobby. Once the monetary value associated with owning exceeds the passion for hotrodding, then what makes it such a great hobby is lost and it may as well be a stack of gold bars or a Roth IRA vs something fun, pure and youthful ("Youth has no age"....Charles Shultz).

As for the imports - at one point I admit that I really looked down on them but I've changed and can now respect them and admire that they are really doing someting quite similar and are enjoying the hobby as I am. I've been noticing that gap is closing from both sides. The other day a kid (20 yr-old) complimented my Camaro at a gas station. I told him thanks and complimented his RX-7). I went on to ask him questions about the rotary engine and before you knew it, we were talkin the same language. :yes:
 
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