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Motion Car Prices in the Dumper? 1969 ZLX 1971 Chevelle-No Buyers Ebay

31K views 115 replies 19 participants last post by  JOE58 
#1 ·
The current owner from NJ keeps listing these cars over and over on Ebay. Hes been lowering the reserve but no biters on the Hook. The 71 Motion Chevelle Ebay just ended not one single bid. Could Joel Rosen's cars not be that desireable any more?
 
#2 ·
Maybe the pool of people with over $100k to invest in a race car that's going to sit in a museum is drying up.

Having watched the prices at Barrett Jackson fall from the obscenely outrageous prices of 2005-2007 to the ridiculously low prices of today, it doesn't surprise me that people aren't lining up to buy cars that weren't really meant to be driven on the street- especially if they have to pay prices that would make one afraid to drive them in the first place.
 
#5 ·
I relate stuff like that to fine art....the majority of it is owned by people who don't even know how to use a coloring book. Doesn't mean they don't/can't have some form of appreciation for it yet there just seems to be something inherently wrong about it.
 
#6 ·
Not sure about how sales rise and fall with the Northern hemisphere seasons, but would imagine that these high-dollar cars would be more likely to generate interest once Spring rolls around and the stresses of Christmas (and the Winter Blues) have been left behind.

Hmm then again, is anyone who could afford one of these cars really likely to suffer from stress at Christmas?
 
#7 ·
Those two Motion cars were not built as new cars. They were brought in to the Motion shop as used cars and built in the mid to late 1970s. That tends to lower the value of the cars.
The Motion paperwork still ads value to the cars but not as high as it would be for a car done as a new high end build.

The high value Motion cars are the ones where they were built new with all the speed parts that were popular in the day. One of the top Motion Camaros sold recently for about $500K but that does not mean that all Motion cars will pull the big numbers.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Joe58,Yes thats Lud Renners Spring of 1968 built 1968 RS/SS Motion Camaro SS427 L88 M22 456 Gear Car from Union County Maplewood NJ.It originally was Built with a Flat hood and Tear Drop Ford Hood Scoop. When Joel Rosen finally had the 1 piece L88 fibeglass hoods made for the Camaros and Novas later on in 1968 Lud had Joel put that hood on. That car also has the first design Motion Made tow tabs that come down off the front of the subframe.They were single sided not the double wall fork fronts.No front Bumper On that RS/SS 1968 Camaro.Cool car 1968 Motion Cars are definitly Kooool!
 
#9 ·
Joe58,The Progression of Hoods for Motion Phase III cars in late 1967 to early to mid 1968 was ,Flat Steel Hood with Scoop Gafted to hood,then came the 1967 Corvette L88 Stinger hood design which was a Full Lite Weight 1 piece fiberglass hood. This was followed up by the 1968 Corvette L88 Open Back Cowel hood design.Motion did a article in September 1968 of what they called Ram Air For Street & Strip. It shows the Open Front Ram air 1967 Corvette Stinger Hood Design on a Motion SS427 1968 Camaro.The Stinger Hood had NO hood springs. The Camaro SS427 shows NO heater hoses going to a SB or BB heater box.Looks like the Heater Box was removed. I believe in 1967 and early 1968 NHRA and AHRA did not allow a full Fiberglass hood. Do you know the finished height using a fly eye air cleaner ? L88 hood for L88 427 Motion Phase III cars in 1968....
 
#10 ·
don't forget the Motion cars were built to customer order. The 68 Corvette Bronze car was built with a tear drop scoop, that was probably what the owner asked for.

I think some Motion cars were also built with A&A hoods as they used a Motion 427 Camaro with stinger hood in the A&A catolog

On Motion car prices, you can still buy a real Motion car for under 10K. It won't be a 1960s Camaro Chevelle or Nova but Motion was still building cars in Baldwin NY into the early 1990s and there is a few still around.

They also had Motion Mini Car Co that did VW bugs and rebody VW frame cars.

There was a Motion dune buggie that was a documented original paint Cars mag cover car on ebay. It needed work but I think only sold for about $2500.

I was thinking of bidding on it but didn't because of lack of extra storage garage :)
 
#11 ·
Joe,Do you have hard facts from Lud Renner of Maplewood NJ Union County NJ about the Ford T Bolt Tear Drop fiberglass scoop that was pop riveted to a Flat 68 Camaro hood? I would love to hear the facts about why he chose that hood over the 1967 L88 Corvette Stinger hood. The 67 Corvette L88 stinger Hood would of been a faster easier install and probably cheaper labor cost then the T Bolt hood scoop.Dosen't make sense? Is Lud Renner a member of the Yenko Site? Love to hear the info from him! Why does that car not have the Phase III stripe like the Black On Black 1968 Motion SS427 4 speed car that Joel owned?By the way in October of 1968 part number BC-138 Motion 427 L-88 Aluminum-head 12.5 to 1 450HP was $1189.95.This was Complete Engine Assemblies W/Clutch assy. BC-973 Four Speed.Special-Duty M22 Close Ratio were $375.00 BC-999 4.56 Gears $41.95 BC-950 Holley Carb Three-Barrel Daytona 950 CFM was $89.95 (516-223-7700) John Mahler High Performance Parts Manager Baldwin Chevrolet Merrick Road & Central Avenue /Baldwin ,L.I. N.Y.
 
#13 ·
Lud Renners hood was not a flat hood. It was the SS hood with the teardrop grafted to it. Lud did not care for the 67 style Corvette L88 hood so he asked Joel if he could do him a teardrop. Joel said "no problem'. Lud was concerned that it would look like crap like most of the steel hoods with glass grafted to them looked but he said it came out perfect. He also says the one that was on Ebay awhile back was not his and was not like his. He said most teardrops had a slight upsweep at the rear like the Ebay one but his had no upsweep, perfectly level. Luds was also open on the bottom side. Joel had cut it out square on the bottom side. It was only on the car for about 2 years when the newer L88 style hoods came out and he had Joel install one of those. His hood had hood pins and the stock latch. Joel changed the air cleaner on Luds car 3 times due to air flow issues on the dyno while dyno tuning it because Lud was racing it. first was tiny like o Hassetts, then 12" flatter style, then the current one. He also did not want the regular 68 stripe but wanted the nose stripe. He figures Joel ordered it with no stripe and then painted the nose stripe himself as it goes under the 427 emblems.
 

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#24 ·
When Joel was moving from NY to Fl, I was at his home when he was selling off a bunch of Motion items he had saved over the years. I picked up some Motion signs and other items and the Motion his and hers cars they had in the 1980s. 1987 Motion SS Monte Aero Coupe and 1989 Motion Mustang GT Convertible. They have similar Motion mods as used in the 1960s/70s (fiberglass hoods, spoilers, Mags, Motion emblems etc.)

On the tear drop hood, there were a bunch of fiberglass shops selling a version of it
One of the 67 Yenko Camaros was found with a tear drop fiberglass hood that the owner added in the mid 1970s

here is a cool pic from Marty's site of the 68 Corvette Bronze Motion Camaro
can't beat a hot rod 67/68 RS Camaro no bumber front end view
 

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#14 · (Edited)
You do know the SS Hood for a Camaro is slightly elevated in the center unlike the Nova SS hoods that are flat.That Ford T bolt Tear Drop Scoop takes up a lot of room.Its surface mount area is big.Honestly I don't understand How Joel could of made it work on a Camaro SS hood. I believe I have the dimensions of the scoop.Any Camaro guys have the side to side raised dimensions of a Original 1968 SS Camaro hood?
 
#18 ·
The economy is in the toilet, everyone is focusing attention on other things than material goods IMHO. People are selling well rounded first gens for 15k and under. A rusted, non tagged, plain Jane inline 6, 3 on the tree car that sold for 15K back in the early 2000's isn't going to happen for a while.
 
#19 ·
AJ,Thanks for that comment I agree....CLill,Did you ever hear of the Motion Mechanic Richie Brown who worked for Joel in 1967/1968? He had a 1962 Motion Biscayne called the Assassin.Theres a picture in Joel Rosens new Motion Blue Book that Marty Schorr wrote.It shows his 62 at the 67 or 68 Motion Show in NYC with the T-Bolt Tear Drop Hood scoop grafted to a flat hood.Check out the size of that Scoop!!!
 
#20 ·
How am I supposed to know what the part # was on the scoop Joel grafted to a 68 Camaro in 68 ? The width of the SS hood is 21" where it drops off the raised area. Are you really going to argue about what the orig. owner is very clear about in his recollections ? I didn't ask him what type of hood it was, he stated that himself. I would focus your energy on a scoop that is 21" wide or less that also does not slope up at the rear. He only had it on the car a couple years. it got damaged, stored at his Dads house with the smog system and later thrown away.
Lud also stated that Joel put the smog system in the trunk. Lud said he didn't want it and Joel said he had to have the smog with the car because he would get in trouble if the car left the shop without smog. It left the shop with smog, it just wasn't installed anymore.
 
#21 ·
I guess he had the Smaller Baby T-Bolt Tear Drop Hi Rise Scoop?? Chill,Does Lud have any pictures of the car in the first 2 Years he owned it with the Baby T-Bolt Tear Drop hood scoop?? I would love to see Vintage 1968/1969 Pictures ?? Maybe you can get Lud o join this Team Camaro site. I probably know people he knew from back in the day.My Dad worked for the Union County Town Of Union Post Office which is just south of Maplewood NJ in Union County NJ. The Baby T-Bolt Hood Scoop measures 20 inches wide then add the 1 inch flange on each side for bonding and riveting.That Baby T-Bolt hood was 29 inches long and again add the 1 inch bonding strip front and back Weight of scoop was 1 1/2 LBS.The Baby T-Bolt Tear Drop Hi Rise Scoop can be identified by NO openings.
 
#22 ·
To Team Camaro members go to Marty Schorrs Car Guy Chronicles April 17 2010 to see the info and pictures on this Motion L88 427 1968 Camaro from Maplewood NJ. I read this article when Marty first posted it on the Motion Section of Yenko.net. Heres the info in that article about the hood. It says," It was originally delivered with a modified hood with a Ford Thunderbolt Scoop." This car was later debute at the 2011 MCACN show last year where I believe the New buyer bought it.
 
#25 ·
CLill,Nice pictures you posted!! Love the interior shot.I noticed its not a factory gauge console car so I'll assume it did not come with the Factory in Dash tach. Love the added Hurst Shifter with the Motion Modified Chrome lever,neat how it bends and angles back for better Motion shifting!! Joe thanks for setting the record straight on the year of your Motion Mustang,kool picture you posted too!! Joe you or Clill have the pictures of the Single Wall Motion Made tow tabs that angle straight down from the front of the subframe behind the lower panel?? Did Lud ever flat tow it with a NMW tow bar?
 
#26 ·
That car has the Motion Option Raised on all Four Points for the big tires like the Ralley Green RS/SS 1969 Mexican SS427 Camaro..You guys that took the pictures was it Air Shocks in back,Shackles in Back,Ball Joint Spacer up front,Plastic spacer ring under front spring, HW GM Heavy Duty 400 Springs in front? I noticed it had what looks like Lightweight hood springs that Motion came out with in Late 1971.The Ralley Green RS/SS 1969 Mexican SS427 Camaro had no hood hinges as shown in Joel Rosens New Motion Blue book. I notice the Mallory Box location on the firewall,seems the pictures for the 68 Motion Cars show that location...
 
#27 ·
I found my November 1967 Hi-Performance Car magazine. Its got a real Kool Detailed Article on Motion Mechanic Richie Browns 1963 Motion Impala that has the Cars Magazine Sponser on rear Quarter and Prepared By Motion Baldwin LI. Car is Raised all the way around with No Front bumper and Home made tow tabs.It says The Assassin on the front fender.Its a 5 page article.On page 20 it shows a awesome front view and rear view of the Tear Drop T Bolt Ford Hood scoop grafted to the steel hood.Interestng is the back side picture showing the 2 openings in the back. Very Kool looking car to say the least!! Car weighed 3435 and ran 114MPH 12.10 secs!
 
#28 ·
This November 1967 Hi Performance Cars magaine has a Motion ad on the inside cover-----1968 Ultimate Supercars! Available only from Baldwin Chevrolet & Motion Performance Inc. THE FANTASTIC FOUR-1 SS-427 Camaro.-2 SS427 Chevelle-3 SS427 Impala-4 SS427 Corvette------But No 1968 Nova was listed...
 
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