[Bill-E-BoB]

I have that lost & hopeless feeling right now, and need some opinions. I've got a '69 RS that I want to make purdy, and around $7K to make it purdy with. Its already a very good lookin' 20 footer, and I obviously can't afford a full restoration, but it has some body issues that need attention & I don't have the skills equipment or time to do the body work. It needs rockers, right rear quarter, paint, and whatever else I haven't found body-wise...but everything else looks pretty dang solid. I have been talking to a couple shops, and it seems like the best I can hope for is $7500-$10000 for paint & body ALONE, and thats not even a disassemble/mediablast/repair/paint type job, thats just patch panels primer & respray with only the doors removed. That leaves me 500 bucks over budget without even starting in on the mechanical costs that I estimate to be $2500 in parts and about a years worth of weekends. So now its looking like there's no way I can do this for less than 10K, and if Im' going to spend that much I feel like I should save up to do the full monty & do a body off resto. All of a sudden my $7K feels like food stamps at a 5 star restaurant, & I'm the guy with holes in his sneakers who doesn't belong. Am I talkin' to the wrong shops, or am I over my head?

[98blackburb]

Just do it a little bit along and eventually it will come together, I am just a workingman doing exactly that.....I am now driving it and going to local car shows....I still have the interior and side windows, weatherstriping and a/c to go..........but I am a long way from where it was......do one thing and you won't have to go back to that part.........as a friend told me kill them 1 snake at the time and eventually you'll have no more snakes.....good luck.....alan

[Bill-E-BoB]

Thats a great way to look at it, and every time I stare at my spiderweb covered rusted on drum breaks & think about all the work ahead of me to convert them to discs or the oil leaks in the motor or the sagging door hinges, I'm going to keep that in mind to keep me goin'...I had to fight the ignition system this weekend, killed that one and have other snakes to tackle now. But if paint & body is a 10K snake...I don't see how I'll kill that one...

[TraxUnderground]

Hey Bill,...These cars are never ending projects that you gotta love or it will kill ya. Whatever you figure it will cost ya, count on it being more...believe me. Do it a little at a time and it wont hurt so bad. I've been working on mine since I bought it 3 years ago. Its never seen the road...Maybe springtime. I'm drooling to get it done but I wont rush it now after all this time. I'm like a little kid sitting in it wishing I could drive it. Do alot of the work yourself. Guys on this group will guide you through the stuff you want to tackle.

"Are you in over your head" .... probably.....but your not alone and it will be worth it when your driving it and the cost of restoring it is behind you !...so I'm told

PS ... I have huge holes in my sneakers and I dont belong in that restaurant either.

[cfauver]

You might not like this answer but here is your solution. Go to an autopaint supply store, buy high grade stripper, and some wire brushes. Do a panel at a time, strip it bare, cut the rust out and then primer. It will take time, but you will save a ton of money, and youll know whats under your paint. I have family in the autobody business, one speacializes in camaros, and i still would rather do it myself. If you get the entire car stripped you will know what needs replaced, and will get a more legit estimate of the repair, plus you can still drive it in the meantime.

[bertfam]

Bill,

I agree with Chris. You say you don't have the necessary skills to do the body work, but that's exactly what I used to think. Until I went out and tried it. Found out it's NOT that hard to do and is actually (in my opinion) kind of relaxing! For the amount of money you're planning on spending, you can get all the necessary tools and start work. I recommend you start in an inconspicuous place, but I think you'll be pleasently surprised at the final results. And you'll get the feeling that you've "done it yourself" instead of farming it out to someone else. You can also take your time and do one small job at a time. Don't try to do the whole car at once or you WILL get over your head. If you just do, say, the rockers first, you can see how good of a job you did and continue on. Yes, it does take practice, but like I said, body work really isn't that hard to do if you take your time and be patient. You may not like how it comes out the first time, so it may take a few attempts, but eventually, you'll get the hang of it and might even get to enjoy the work.

Ed

[Bill-E-BoB]

Actually, Chris, your advice is great...definately not the easy way out, but to continue on alans snake analogy, that turns body & paint from a $10K snake to a whole bunch of little $200 snakes that I can kill one at a time. Sounds like I'm about to learn body work.

If I do all the body work and prepwork myself, and somehow manage to make it come out looking like a car in the end, what should I expect to pay for a decent paint job? If they spray it with the car assembled it could be as little as 1 or 2 grand, right? Does this seem like a realistic budget?

mechanical & electrical stuff - $3000 +/- in parts (thats double what I actually estimate minus a grand for the parts I can hunt down cheaper)
Body work tools - $1000 (thats a rough ballpark guess...don't even know what I'll need)
body panels - $500 (thats for a quarter panel, 2 rockers, and an extra 200 for whatever else I may find)
Supplies like stripper, primer, sand paper, etc - $500

That leaves 2K for a paint job before I reach my original 7K, and it will take me long enough that I'm sure I'll have saved up a few more pennies I can put toward the project too.

The main thing I'm trying to do right now is get a plan before I spend any of the money. If I know I'm going to run out of money for a paint job a year from now, I'll go ahead & start saving on parts right now. For example, instead of buying my RS headlight doors from Rick's or NPD or somewhere like that, I found a set of originals on ebay that included the backing plate, inner door, and outer door for 80 bucks. That saved me about 200 already. Found a good instrument housing in the classifieds for 55 bucks instead of the $350 repro. If I take my time hunting for parts instead of just buyin' all new high priced stuff I think that will help a whole lot.

[akxtreme]

Bill, you have the right idea. Plus you are about $7000 ahead of me. I started with my interior, and bought one part at a time on ebay and craigslist. I made a list of all of the items that I would need and their repro price. That when when something popped up on ebay or at a swap meet I new what it was worth and how much I would be saving or not. A year later my interior is complete. My enginge runs but I plan on doing a performance build, and I have a fender that needs replaced and a rear quarter that is starting to cancer. The CFO has alotted me $200 a month for car parts. It is not much but I am way more excited about driving the car now that interior is squared away and I am making progress on the car.
2 key things. Is is impossible in my opinion to do a restoration without the help of the TC forum, and Nobody in their right mind is going to laugh at you for driving around a 1st gen camaro with primer spots. A 20/20 (ft/mph) RS is still better than most people are driving, no matter what condition is in.

[Bill-E-BoB]

Ok, so it sounds like thats a good path to stay on for now...the problem is I don' thave a 200/mo vehicle allowance right now, all I have is the money I got from selling a VW Bus I lost interest in. When its gone, its gone. I'm keeping this project completely separate from my household budget so that the wife-in-training doesn't leave or make me live in the car.

Next question. order of operations. I'm inclined to say I should do everything mechanical and electrical 1st. Get it running, driving, steering, and stopping like a champ (Right now it does all of those except stop...but needs to be gone through). Its garage kept & I'll never have it out on a rainy day, but I want to make sure I'm not making more work for myself with rust repair by waiting on it. What do you guys think about rust converters like Rust Bullet & POR-15?

[Mat Klemp]

I agree with the one part at a time, and If you get the car mechanically sound so you can drive it, then the rest can follow. If you take it all apart and can't use it for several years it can be difficult to swallow.
My biggest money savers are: swap meets and the local Pick & Pull junk yard. (Wednesdays are 1/2 off days) and friends. I use a lot of substitute parts, especially mechanically. Nova, Buick Apollo, Pontiac Ventura's are good donors. I have blower relays from an S-10 , Firebird motors for the headlights, Cadillac rear disc brakes, The A/C vents from a Nova and Chevy truck, Front seats from a Cavilear, Firebird steering wheel and gearbox, Venture power steering pump, Hydroboost from an Astro van. Etc.. I have been able to borrow most of the special tools I need like Mig welder, Harbor Freight can come in handy for tools also.
TTFN
Mat

[flat350]

I wish that I had $7000 when I bought my 68 , $1500 - $ 2000 per year is all I get but after 4 years the body is solid and rust free , drive train works great and I don't care if I drive it in primer. Paint will be the last thing done it seems to be a big ticket item if I don' do it myself . It seems like a lot of work at first and this site was a tremendous help and you end up picking up the needed skills , I also really know how every square inch of my car is put together , no hidden surprises anymore .

[akxtreme]

Bill, Everyone that I talked with about POR-15 was happy with it. I used it on my floorboards and trunk pan and was extremely happy with the results. I would not put it on body panels though. I plan to use it for my frame and engine bay. I don't think it will allow other paints to stick. I think they do make a primer for body panels. www.por15.com.

[Fred Ficarra]

Ya know, even buying these cars new and taking care of them, like not driving them in the rain, keeping them spotless (top to underneath) saves NOTHING. Once you have a cash-sinkhole, just keep tossing in your dough.
To use an analogy for cruising on a sailboat; Cruising (hobby cars) cost exactly how much money that you posses.

[MichiganMan]

Actually, Chris, your advice is great...definately not the easy way out, but to continue on alans snake analogy, that turns body & paint from a $10K snake to a whole bunch of little $200 snakes that I can kill one at a time. Sounds like I'm about to learn body work. ok bill start with the passenger side fender pull it off & while you have it off pop that heater motor cover off. Then tell us what you find there LoL