[TR-69DZ]

Looking for vin tag rivets to replace tag onto new panel.
Only place i have found them is "restorivets". Know of any others? Thanks.

[kcs]

Try doing a search on this site for "rivets". Others have asked as well. Not to much interest here because of the fraud with vin tags and swapping them out to make more Z's, SS's, etc. then Chevrolet ever produced. Should of never taken the tag off in the first place. I'm trying to be nice about it but get ready for the blasting! Good Luck!

[78MBA]

Why did you remove it?

[elcamino]

fyi

[78MBA]

Score

250 Camaro Enthusiasts
0 Criminals

Way to go law enforcement, that'll teach em!

[yellow69RS]

Originally Posted by TR-69DZ

Looking for vin tag rivets to replace tag onto new panel.
Only place i have found them is "restorivets". Know of any others? Thanks.

Last week there was a post on here about rivets. No one found the right ones. I looked at those and they sure are proud of them ($55. a pair). I have my VIN in my tool box and a brand new dash top on the car so I understand where you're at. I wonder what a call to the local or state law enforcement would do.

Jeff

[Unreal]

In Kennesaw Georgia, it is illegal not to carry a weapon!! That doesn't mean everyone in town will get arrested.

JMO, but if you need new rivets, I'd just buy them from one of the internet suppliers. While law enforcement may go after a volume seller of them, they are not likely to go after a buyer of two, for their restoration....especially if you can show no intent to defraud. Price is going to be "value based" not "cost based", so be prepared for sticker shock.

[Bgonz 69]

Originally Posted by TR-69DZ

Looking for vin tag rivets to replace tag onto new panel.
Only place i have found them is "restorivets". Know of any others? Thanks.

Just take a aluminum 1/8" rivet and file down the edges............... Its really that simple.........

Originally Posted by Unreal

In Kennesaw Georgia, it is illegal not to carry a weapon!! That doesn't mean everyone in town will get arrested.

JMO, but if you need new rivets, I'd just buy them from one of the internet suppliers. While law enforcement may go after a volume seller of them, they are not likely to go after a buyer of two, for their restoration....especially if you can show no intent to defraud. Price is going to be "value based" not "cost based", so be prepared for sticker shock.

I sold a 69 Charger R/T to a guy in Kennesaw GA I thought he was kidding




bob

[TR-69DZ]

Ok. Sorry I asked. Never said I removed the tag. It would be easier to replace the whole panel than rebuild it.

[yellow69RS]

Originally Posted by TR-69DZ

Ok. Sorry I asked. Never said I removed the tag. It would be easier to replace the whole panel than rebuild it.

I didn't mean I would send the law your way. I wonder if they will just put it back on for me ( or you). The hidden VINs are exposed and match and not welded in from another body and I have a valid title in my name. I think maybe if I just call em up they will come out and rivet it in.

Jeff

[rszmjt]

Originally Posted by yellow69RS

I didn't mean I would send the law your way. I wonder if they will just put it back on for me ( or you). The hidden VINs are exposed and match and not welded in from another body and I have a valid title in my name. I think maybe if I just call em up they will come out and rivet it in.

Jeff

JMO but I wouldn,t If I were you. The minute you call Police in Canada regarding any vin swap ( even if original and legitimate ) etc they usually impound the car and Auto Theft gets involved . This happened to a fellow in Canada who had changed his dash panel due to irrepairable rust and the police impounded the car. They assigned a new vin tag in the door jam and kept the original, it was a hassle to get the car back. Not to mention it is now worth many thousands of dollars less in market value.

If you can possibly repair the panel and leave the vin intact with out removing it that would be in your Best Interest. JMO.

[al8apexer]

Originally Posted by yellow69RS

... I think maybe if I just call em up they will come out and rivet it in.

Jeff

I think if you call them them WILL NOT come out and rivet it back in for you, they will send a wrecker and tow your car away ... bad idea IMHO

I think that IF you had asked BEFORE you cut out your VIn, you MAY have gotten some advice from them on what to and NOT to do ...

just a guess

[Eric Kammerer]

When I replaced the dashtop on my 69, I just used regular rivets to reattach. Because 69 VIN plates on all Norwood cars and some if not all LA/VN cars were attached from underneath, it's really hard to see original rosette heads anyway. Just photo document preremoval conditions, postremoval conditions, and the two hidden CON VINs, and it shouldn't be an issue.

Replacing the dashtop on a first gen is such a common repair, regular rivets holding the VIN plate up wouldn't concern me in the least if the CON VINs are unaltered and match up.

[Eric Kammerer]

I figured I would add one more thought...

There are other clues that a dash top has been replaced (no vertical tabs in the opening where the dash top meets the upper cowl, and squared off corners in the VIN tag opening), so having rosette rivets on the underside won't keep someone from noticing that the dash top has been replaced.

[elcamino]

Just remember is against the law to sell a vehicle with a tampered VIN and any removal/reinstallation is considered tampering unless done in accordance with local laws, weather you intended to deceive or not. The next owner may not understand and assume you did something illegal and screwed him with the car. Lots of problems can come from this so be careful what you do.



Here are cites to individual state laws and cases:

JURISDICTIONAL TABLE OF CASES and STATUTES

UNITED STATES CODE

18 U.S.C.A. § 2321 See --§ 2[a]
1375

Proving Violations of 18 U.S.C. § 511
It is not necessary to allege in the indictment the absence of the exceptions contained in subsection 18 U.S.C. § 511 (b). See this Manual at 226 (Negating Statutory Exceptions). The use of the term "unlawfully" excludes the coverage of the lawful removal or destruction of a number. A reason why you may wish to specifically describe the altered VIN is to establish with some specificity the actual motor vehicle which is the subject matter of the indictment. To prove a violation of Section 511, it must be established that: (1) the defendant knowingly removed, obliterated, tampered with, or altered an identification number on a road motor vehicle (or component); (2) the identification number was one required by the United States Department of Transportation (DOT); and (3) such conduct was not done lawfully (e.g., defendant knew the vehicle was stolen and was trying to conceal its identity).

The essence of the offense is to show a removal, obliteration, tampering with, or alteration by the defendant. Eyewitness testimony is the best evidence to prove that the defendant removed or falsified the number. Proof of a removal of a number should be easily accomplished by persons familiar with what numbers should be present on a motor vehicle or part.

Proof of the falsification of a VIN will require in most cases expert testimony. Law enforcement experts may be able to detect "concealed" numbers placed by the manufacturer on the motor vehicle. From such information, the original VIN can be reconstructed. If you know the make and model year of the motor vehicle in question, analysis of what the VIN characters for such a vehicle should have been will help establish a falsification.

In regard to the present 17 characters VINs, each character or group of characters has meaning. The falsification of a number can be established by experts from the law enforcement community, the National Insurance Crime Bureau (NICB), and the manufacturers. The meaning of the various characteristics of the VIN for a particular vehicle can be explained by these experts.

The manufacturer's production records will reflect whether a vehicle having a certain VIN was ever manufactured for that model year. If the criminal has duplicated an existing VIN from another vehicle, the manufacturer's records along with the VIN will reveal the particular characteristics of the vehicle having the original (i.e., authentic) VIN, thus permitting a comparison of the physical attributes of the two vehicles to determine to which vehicle the VIN was actually originally assigned by the manufacturer.

In most prosecutable cases, your expert witnesses will be able to establish the identity of the original VIN. However, if that is not possible, a successful prosecution should still be possible by showing that the vehicle was manufactured by a particular manufacturer, that such manufacturer always certified compliance with the DOT standard(s) (which compliance meant the vehicle had the required VIN (or component numbers)) and that the VIN (or component numbers) on the vehicle (or part) was not one the manufacturer assigned to any of its vehicles (or parts).

The evidence must establish an unlawful removal or falsification. The lawful removals can be found in 18 U.S.C. §§ 511(b) and 512(a)(3). Under subsection 511(b), these lawful exceptions do not apply if the person knows that the motor vehicle or part is stolen. Except for the area of "repair," these exceptions should cause no significant enforcement problem. The relevant portion of H.R.Rep. No. 1089 on H.R. 6257, 98th Cong., 2d Sess. 23-25 (1984), makes clear that the "repair" exception is intended for the protection of the honest body shop operator who while fixing a part does some injury to its identification number. The exception "is not intended to apply to the operators of "chop shops,' who remove such parts - not repairing or recycling them for lawful purposes." Most of the states that are parties to the interstate compact, which created the Vehicle Equipment Safety Commission (VESC), have established under their respective state laws, procedures for the restoration and replacement of missing identification numbers. See Regulation VESC-18, Standardized Replacement Vehicle Identification Number System.

For further discussion of 18 U.S.C. § 511, see this Manual at 1375.