Rec port intake on oval port heads? - Page 2 - Team Camaro Tech
Team Camaro Tech join team camaro
 
Camaro Parts at SS396.com     
GROUND UP & SS396.com         
Official Sponsor of Team Camaro
   

Auto Insurance



Registered users (free) do not see these large ads

Engine General Engine Discussion.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old Dec 5th, 08, 10:15 AM
batboy batboy is offline
Senior Tech

cave dweller
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 329
Default Re: Rec port intake on oval port heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Devil's advocate View Post
Why waste time on a dyno when this conversion WORKS well when you push the gas pedal down.

If you really want to drive the dyno, then, you don't really care about stuff actually working, dynos aren't realistic gages for a street driven vehicle. NOBODY has ever driven a dyno around the block.

I know it works because I have done this 4 times in the past, all with EXCELLENT results, and, it is done every day, by many, many others that feel the difference in the seat of their pants, not waste their time looking for a useless number on a dyno.

Regards,

Milton

Ok, so in other words, you have no proof.

I've had my GTO dynoed several times. Each time the dyno said I made more power, lo and behold, I ran faster at the dragstrip. I beg to differ if you are trying to convince us the dyno is completely useless. It's a tool and like all tools, it must be used correctly.

If you already have oval post heads and a rect intake, by all means use it if this is just a street engine. Hope you'll excuse me for using oval port intake on my oval port heads. I figure those Chevy engineers that designed it might know just a bit more than me.
__________________
1968 Camaro - neglected project
2004 Pontiac GTO - lots of mods
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17  
Old Dec 5th, 08, 02:30 PM
1969ProStreetCamaro 1969ProStreetCamaro is offline
Senior Tech

David
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Rainsville, Alabama
Posts: 4,274
Default Re: Rec port intake on oval port heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Devil's advocate View Post
If you really want to drive the dyno, then, you don't really care about stuff actually working, dynos aren't realistic gages for a street driven vehicle.
.......and why are they not?


__________________
"All I need is a fast machine". Steve McQueen
My Machine: 1969 Pro Street Camaro
468 CID 661 Horsepower Turbo 400
33"x19.50" Mickey Thompsons
Check Out My Camaro
661 Horsepower 468
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old Dec 5th, 08, 04:20 PM
Pro-Street69Camaro468 Pro-Street69Camaro468 is offline
Gold Lifetime Member

Dave C
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: maryland
Posts: 5,494
Default Re: Rec port intake on oval port heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1969ProStreetCamaro View Post
.......and why are they not?


I would like to hear the explination on this one as well....
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old Dec 6th, 08, 03:26 PM
blackl78's Avatar
blackl78 blackl78 is offline
Senior Tech

Travis
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 710
Default Re: Rec port intake on oval port heads?

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showth...t=degree+heads
__________________
Travis

67 L78
67 Vert



Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old Dec 6th, 08, 03:57 PM
IDS_Bill IDS_Bill is offline
Senior Tech

Bill
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 909
Default Re: Rec port intake on oval port heads?

I'm not convinced. Between stagnation points and turbulence from the mis-fitting of the surfaces, it could go either way. Someone needs to compare them head to head. Sounds like a good article for Chevy High Performance or Super Chevy...
__________________
67 Yenko Tribute - 427/4SPD/Bolero Red
2010 2SS/RS Camaro - Victory Red with White Rally Stripes
http://www.67yenko.com
http://www.dive-ids.com
http://www.azdivetraining.com
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old Dec 6th, 08, 09:00 PM
bikedude3 bikedude3 is offline
Senior Tech

clayton hicker
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: selma,oregon
Posts: 445
Default Re: Rec port intake on oval port heads?

im glad to hear it works.i just picked up a ret.port intake for my oval port heads
__________________
clayton hicker
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old Dec 8th, 08, 08:07 AM
WES 1967 yenko clone WES 1967 yenko clone is offline
Senior Tech

WES
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 224
Default Re: Rec port intake on oval port heads?

Well , we all like to beat things around. I have a 427 500horse a little less tor.. guess what ? It has a Rect. port GM intake on oval port heads. It was on the dyno and with the factory rect. heads it made less hor/tor at NORMAL rpm 1000-5200 above that the rec. heads made more horse and tor. But i can't get that kind of rpm on the street. P.S. Every motor i have ever done has been on the dyno,and i believe it to be money well spent.YOU CAN"T ARGUE WITH THE NUMBERS. Wes
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old Dec 8th, 08, 09:12 AM
Bgonz 69 Bgonz 69 is offline
Gold Lifetime Member

Bob
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: central NJ
Posts: 1,119
Default Re: Rec port intake on oval port heads?

I'm a little late on this thread but yes.......... it works fine. I've done this a few times over the years and never noticed any performance shortcomings. Odd but true.

Kinda makes you wonder about port matching your intake................. doesnt it



bob
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old Dec 8th, 08, 11:13 AM
The Devil's advocate The Devil's advocate is offline
Senior Tech

midget
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 183
Default Re: Rec port intake on oval port heads?

Well, lets see, just about EVERYONE that has dyno work done ALWAYS has to revise the two parts of the tune up from what the dyno likes, altered higher timing and jetting, to run the engine on the street. If the dyno was such a good tool in TUNING, then, there wouldn't have to be any changes from on the dyno, to off it, to get the engine package right for street driving, now would there! We see posts all the time about why the engine ran perfectly ON the dyno, but wouldn't get out of its own way OFF the dyno. Plain truth of it is, NOBODY has EVER driven a dyno around the block, EVER.

Head flow is another place of great interest, as now, the truth is well known by saavy people that now WET flow the ports in development, not DRY flow them as just about EVERY unknowing head guru still does now. Ask the good folks at DART Engineering how they do it, and they will tell you they WET flow the heads, not dry flow them, gives them a real world picture of the actual way the ports work, not the dry flow method of only the potential.

On one set of their own excellent heads, they flowed and ported a set to their dry flow specs, checked the dry flow rates, found they were a good set to their own standards, then dyno'd them. They then pulled those same heads, and WET flowed them, got the same dry flow numbers, after revising the ports to favor the AIR/FUEL MIXTURE, not just the AIR, and gained 55 horsepower on the same engine, same dyno, same setup, but wet vs dry flowed heads.

That is proof enough for me, too bad some of you are still listening to both dyno and dry flow gurus that really don't have a clue.

I prefer to keep up to date on things, not do the same tired and old ways that are so out of date it isn't even funny.

Here is a small part of an article sent to me by my ignition person, it is from a publication he gets every month as part of his being in the industry. It is about head flow and new vs old technology, and mentions the DART and Edelbrock testing methods. Read on.

"Milt, here is part of an article from one of my industry publications you might be interested in. As I have always said, there is the old, out of date ways, and new ways. The new ways work much better, but, nobody wants to believe them. Too bad, they are the way things are going, and, more people will eventually become both aware of them as time goes on, and have to live with them vs the old ways. Same thing applies to dyno's as well, old full throttle only vs a programmed "drive" on the dyno. It's gonna get bloody in discussions until people start to realize the old style testing methods most hero's use, just ain't that accurate. Sure, a dyno is a GREAT tool for raw development, but, it isn't the finite answer most people firmly believe it is, and that is why so much variation in timing and jetting has to be altered once the engine is off the dyno. Remember the revisions I had you do after you had that first Chevy engine dyno'd, and it wouldn't drive the car down the road. That is what this stuff is all about. Enjoy! Dave.

HOTROD & RESTORATION
March, 2008 issue, pg. 41 & 42
"Article: Cylinder heads, Making Head Lines

Section titled: "Flows, real and virtual"

Start

Computer technology is influencing how heads are designed, as well as manufactured. Edelbrock Corporation of Torrance, California has recently started to refine its cylinder head designs using Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD), a sophisticated computer simulation that, "allows us to see the shape of the flow passage of any given part" said Smitty Smith. "That allows us to keep the flow equal in all the ports. The engineers can see on a computer screen where the flow is slow or fast - it shows up red or green - and that helps them tune the radii of the turns". Edelbrock used CFD to design the new NASCAR intake manifolds it is supplying for all four Sprint Cup engines - Chevrolet, Ford, Dodge and Toyota - in 2008. And Smith expects that CFD technology will, "absolutely, increasingly influence the design of street heads in the future".

At the same time, laboratory testing has become more sophisticated as well. "People tend to look at flow numbers", said Jack McInnis of Dart machinery in Troy, Michigan, "and we are trying to dissuade them from that, because (dry) flow numbers only indicate potential, whereas we are big believers in managing fuel as well as air." Dart founder and CEO Richard Maskin designed a wet flow bench for his own Pro Stock program, "but now we use it for our entire product line. It can flow 850 cfm at 55 inches of depression, and that's with fuel." (Dart engineers actually use a solvent that has the same specific gravity as gasoline, but is not as combustible.) "That allows us to monitor the air-fuel ratio, and to see how the fuel stream is behaving. Our small block Iron Eagle and our aluminum Pro 1 cylinder heads were both very good pieces, but when we redesigned them using wet flow technology, they showed a 55 hp increase - with virtually identical air flow as the previous versions."

End."

Milton back again. I'll leave it at that, old dry flow and full throttle dyno, vs new, more informative wet flow and programmed dyno operations. Take your pick, but, don't discount the new ways you may, or may not be aware of, or are too set in your ways to take a closer look at. The world of performance is constantly changing, and both the active dyno and wet flow are here now, and ARE the future, even if you don't think so or, someone from the old school tells you different.

And, once Dave revised both the timing and jetting on my first dyno'd engine, it ran as it should have, extremely good, wouldn't run right straight off the dyno, and the dyno guys insisted it wasn't their "TUNE" they left it with that wasn't right.

Regards,

Milton
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old Dec 8th, 08, 02:10 PM
1969ProStreetCamaro 1969ProStreetCamaro is offline
Senior Tech

David
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Rainsville, Alabama
Posts: 4,274
Default Re: Rec port intake on oval port heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Devil's advocate View Post
...We see posts all the time about why the engine ran perfectly ON the dyno, but wouldn't get out of its own way OFF the dyno. Plain truth of it is, NOBODY has EVER driven a dyno around the block, EVER.
...........no dyno drivin' here. Just my '69 Camaro(dyno tuned engine)that obviously doesn't have a problem runnin' on the street.............................
__________________
"All I need is a fast machine". Steve McQueen
My Machine: 1969 Pro Street Camaro
468 CID 661 Horsepower Turbo 400
33"x19.50" Mickey Thompsons
Check Out My Camaro
661 Horsepower 468
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old Jun 7th, 10, 11:30 AM
provfirescott provfirescott is offline
Senior Tech

Scott
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 644
Default Re: Rec port intake on oval port heads?

My engine builder said DO NOT run a rect port intake on oval ports heads.Bercasue of pooling of the fuel
__________________
1969 Camaro Convertible 427 5 Speed
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old Jun 7th, 10, 02:47 PM
Nashville Beth's Avatar
Nashville Beth Nashville Beth is offline
Banned

Bethanne
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Nashville TN
Posts: 3,192
Default Re: Rec port intake on oval port heads?

It would be interesting to see someone swap oval-port and rectangle port intakes (like a standard high-rise dual plane) and see if there is a difference.

Port-matching would really be a waste of time if the rectangle port beat the oval port.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:23 PM.



Camaros.net - 2009 AutoForums.com