[Brentmc]

I've spend HOURS reading TC posts on this and now come to the group for some help.

Background: My crate 350 has approximately 3,500 miles on it, new Vortec heads and an Edlebrock Air Gap intake. The intake is secured with ARP bolts with no sealant and is using a FelPro 1255 intake gasket with no adhesive applied to it. I am using Valvoline Synthetic oil.

I have baffled valve covers with a new PCV valve.

I re-torqued the intake to 11lbs.

Within 4 seconds of starting my car, blueish smoke comes out of my exhaust and continues to come out no matter how long I run the car. It is quite a bit of smoke and is present in the same amount at idle and higher RPMs.

I ran the car with the PCV plugged and two breathers installed and there was no change in the amount of smoke. The PCV seems to be working fine.

The residue on the driveway from the car idling has the rainbow effect that I assume indicates oil/gas residue in the exhaust smoke.

The car is using more oil than it should be--I'm not sure how much yet as I just started measuring it.

The smoke seems to have started with I installed the new heads (which of course involved removing the intake as well).

Does this sound like an intake gasket leak?

Wouldn't a valve seal leak smoke mostly at start-up?

I have not done a leakdown test (yet) or compression test (yet). I have pulled the plugs several times before and noticed nothing abnormal...

[dale68z]

To prove a internal intake leak.
Plug off all holes in the valve covers. I use duct tape.
Install a vacuum gauge on the dipstick tube.
Start up the car, there should be NO vacuum indicated on the gauge.

No vacuum, no internal leak. Has vacuum, pull the intake, the gasket has slipped.
Dale

[Badbird]

Sounds like an intake leak!.....You need more than 11 ft lbs of torque to seal the intake manifold!.....Also, be advised, the bolts at the 4 corners of the intake are threaded into water jacket and will need sealant on bolt threads!....R&R the intake, glue the gaskets to the heads and apply silicon sealant around the water passages and torque the intake to 20-25 ft lbs torque.

A worn valve seal would just smoke on initial start up!

[BillK]

Originally Posted by Badbird

You need more than 11 ft lbs of torque to seal the intake manifold!

Ron,
If he is using the Vortec intake and bolts as he says, that is all the torque they take.

Brent,
Is the Fel Pro 1255 a vortec style gasket ? I would use the FelPro MS96000T replacement gasket myself on a vortec style head.

[Badbird]

Originally Posted by BillK

Ron,
If he is using the Vortec intake and bolts as he says, that is all the torque they take.

Sorry, was thinking non vortectical!

[Brentmc]

Bill,

The 1255's are composite material vortec gaskets. http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

The FelPro MS96000T seems to run about $89 for the set--sound about right? The GM 89017465 is about $50 w/o the valve cover gaskets and the 1255 is about $22. Seems to be a price vs quality thing as usual.

Is it fairly unanimous that it's probably an intake issue?

I'll run the vacuum check tomorrow as well.

Thanks!

[Brentmc]

FWIW.

I'm going to go ahead and order the Fel-Pro intake gaskets that Bill K recommends--they are $56 at Advance Auto for the intake, water neck and one valve cover gasket.

I found this press release on them--they sound like the solution to intake leaks. It was interesting to note their claim that the stock gaskets burned up after 50 hours of testing but these were looking new after 600 hours.

FelPro news release was as follows:

"Federal-Mogul has solved a long-standing sealing problem affecting a number of different engines with its new Fel-Pro PermaDryPlus replacement intake manifold gasket. The new gasket features a high-strength aluminized steel carrier that is edge-molded and encapsulated with a proprietary fluoroelastomer material. In addition, it features three separate sealing beads around coolant ports to ensure a long-lasting seal under any situation. The gasket solves chronic coolant leakage problems on GM 5.0L and 5.7L engines (1996-2002). “You’re looking at a development process of two years, involving 2500 dyno hours,” said Fel-Pro Chief Engineer Jerry Rosenquist in introducing the gasket last month. “We burned up five small block Chevy engines in the process, but after 11 different gasket designs, we came up with a winner. We really nailed it.” The company was inspired to develop a problem-solver gasket after a number of focus groups involving service technicians from across the United States repeatedly identified the intake-manifold sealing problem as the most common gasket-related issue they face. The PermaDryPlus intake manifold gasket is comprised of a high-strength aluminized steel carrier that is edge-molded and encapsulated with a proprietary fluoroelastomer material and features double- and triple-redundant sealing beads. Rosenquist said it is so resilient the development team was able to dyno test it for over 600 hours without any noticeable deterioration. By comparison, the plastic gaskets that come standard with the engines barely lasted 50 hours in the same test. Rosenquist said the research and development process was made easier with extensive resources available to the Fel-Pro team through Federal-Mogul. “We had the luxury of contacting other people in our organization that have some ideas. We have technical facilities around the world and we have access to technical equipment and people and ideas that we had never had before.” The new gasket is now available as part of a complete Fel-Pro Manifold Installation Set (Fel-Pro P/N MS 98000T) for G.M. 5.0L and 5.7L V8 truck engines manufactured from 1996 through 2002. The time-saving set contains all of the premium technologies needed to complete an intake manifold gasket repair, including PermaDryPlus lower manifold gaskets, upper manifold gaskets and an advanced PermaDry valve cover gasket."

[deerhunter]

You say this started after installing a new set of heads. What brand of heads are they? Would you post the results of the new gasket change? Were the heads purchased assembled or were they bare?

[Brentmc]

The head replacement is a long story that can be found here: http://www.camaros.net/forums/showth...cracked+vortec

The current heads are brand new, pre-assembled vortec heads from Tri-State cylinder head.

The previous heads were rebuilt heads and had a crack near the valve that allowed anitfreeze into the cylinder. I replaced these with the current heads and the white smoke disappeared and all was well initially. Over time, blue smoke started to come out of the exhaust and has increased to the point where it is embarassing to drive the car.

I will post the results of the gasket swap along with pics of the FelPro 1255 gasket that I will remove and triage over the next 2 weeks.

[BillK]

Brent,
I sent you a PM but wanted to correct my post here too ... should be MS98000T

[Brentmc]

Thanks Bill.

I'll pick up a set this week and report back how it goes...

Brent

[deerhunter]

I read the posts in the link you provided. I suppose it is possible that you do have a bad gasket and the new one could fix it but...you had antifreeze running into that cylinder for quite awhile, if I read it right. I am suspicious about the condition of the rings now. Antifreeze in a combustion cylinder is NOT a good thing! It washes down the cylinder walls and you end up with the rings rubbing against the bare cylinder walls which results in a very short ring life. I would do a compression test before tearing it down. If you do find problems it could save you the cost of another set of gaskets.

[Brentmc]

I hadn't thought of that but it makes sense...it was cylinder #5 and was full of antifreeze when I took off the head...

I'll check compression on it...

Anything else I should do before replacing the gasket?

Just in case, how much of a job of it is replacing a single piston ring?

Brent

[deerhunter]

I have never tried it on a Camaro with the engine in the car but have on other vehicles. If you can get the oil pan off it would be easy after that. Just pull the cap off the rod and push it up and out with a helper to catch the piston as it leaves the bore. You might have to hone the cylinder a tiny bit to clean it up and then remove the old and install the new. You will want to space your ring gaps correctly and then you will need a ring compressor to get it back in. Was it just the one cylinder affected by this? If so, it would be worth a try. There are posts here that explain the steps to get the pan off.

[Brentmc]

Yes--only one cylinder was getting antifreeze...I drove it altogether about 20 hours or so with a cracked head leaking antifreeze into the cylinder.

I haven't removed the oil pan on a Camaro but understand that I need to lift it a bit off the motor mounts and it will come off.

It sounds like something I could do at home over a couple of weekends or have done at a shop without it costing me a fortune...