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  #1  
Old Oct 21st, 09, 05:39 PM
OK69 OK69 is offline
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Default 291 heads

What would a set of 3917291 casting heads ready to bolt on be worth?

Dated H 4 7 and G 31 7. Any ideas?
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  #2  
Old Oct 21st, 09, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: 291 heads

Around here alot depends on what you mean by ready to bolt on, condition, etc. Fresh valve job on old parts or new valves, guides, springs, etc ? Ports been messed with or still untouched ? 2.02 or 1.94 intake valves ? With the large variety of really good aftermarket smallblock heads the last few years prices on the old double hump heads has gone down a bit. I recently bought 2 pair from a guy that need to be gone through but look to be good used virgin (unported) heads and paid $150 (for 4 heads) but that's a steal. Some classes of short track local type circle track racing have rules that require "stock" heads and don't allow bowtie or Vortec heads and those guys will pay a premium for old style "fuelie" heads if the ports haven't been messed with. Other than that someone looking for those numbers & casting dates might have an interest. By the dates they should be correct for an early 68 model and are close enough to likely be a matching pair off the same engine.
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  #3  
Old Oct 21st, 09, 07:09 PM
Z15CAM Z15CAM is offline
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Default Re: 291 heads

68 291 Turbo Flows were Grumpy Jenkins favourite Head and if you have the Time, Patience and Money to build a set of 291 Jenkin Spec'd Heads they are worth a small fortune to those who want Originality and BEAT the competition.






Don't complain that you can't see all the chambers because of the PIC with the MAN.

Vortec and will not flow better then Jenkin 291's and most after market heads won't either. Enthusiasts with a 68Z would kill for a set of these ;o)
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  #4  
Old Oct 21st, 09, 07:38 PM
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Default Re: 291 heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z15CAM View Post
68 291 Turbo Flows were Grumpy Jenkins favourite Head and if you have the Time, Patience and Money to build a set of 291 Jenkin Spec'd Heads they are worth a small fortune to those who want Originality and BEAT the competition.






Don't complain that you can't see all the chambers because of the PIC with the MAN.

Vortec and will not flow better then Jenkin 291's and most after market heads won't either. Enthusiasts with a 68Z would kill for a set of these ;o)
I still have that book around here somewhere myself and I was always amazed that he made so much horsepower using so many basically stock parts. Stock GM timing chains & gears, well worn blocks with a ton of miles on them, etc. I think between the Grump & Smokey Yunick they tried just about everything you could possibly try with the old school smallblocks us old timers grew up with.
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  #5  
Old Oct 22nd, 09, 09:13 AM
OK69 OK69 is offline
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Default Re: 291 heads

What did the 291 heads come on? DId any of them end up on the Z-28? I assume the Z-28's had 2.02's?
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  #6  
Old Oct 22nd, 09, 09:34 AM
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Default Re: 291 heads

Value would highly depend on condition. Rebuilt? What do you mean by ready to bolt on? Are springs and valves new? New guides? Do they have 2.02 valves?

The Z28s had 2.02 valves but I am not sure on casting number.
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  #7  
Old Oct 22nd, 09, 11:55 AM
OK69 OK69 is offline
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Default Re: 291 heads

They are 1.94's. 5000 miles on them since they were rebuilt. Did these come on camaros they are dated late 1967? I thought camaros were 186 castings for Z-28. Would these come on any 327's or 350 camaros?
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  #8  
Old Oct 22nd, 09, 12:19 PM
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Default Re: 291 heads

I believe the Z28s could have either the 291 (68) or 186 (69). I could be wrong on that. But for sure they had to have 2.02 valves.

Date of G 31 7 is July 31, 1967 and H 4 7 is August 4, 1967. So they would have been used on an early 1968 model year vehicle. They were used on some Camaros. I think some books say the 291s were used on the 302 and 327, while the 186s were used on the 302 and 350. But they were probably all used for the 302/327/350.
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  #9  
Old Oct 22nd, 09, 12:27 PM
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Default Re: 291 heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcm66 View Post
I believe the Z28s could have either the 291 (68) or 186 (69). I could be wrong on that. But for sure they had to have 2.02 valves.

Date of G 31 7 is July 31, 1967 and H 4 7 is August 4, 1967. So they would have been used on an early 1968 model year vehicle. They were used on some Camaros. I think some books say the 291s were used on the 302 and 327, while the 186s were used on the 302 and 350. But they were probably all used for the 302/327/350.
I've never seen a 1968 Z with a set of 186 heads...

These heads were used on many mid/High HP small blocks for 1968 - including the Z-28 and other 2.02" intake applications.
They were available in both the 1.94 and 2.02 confiquration.
They differ from the 1967 (461) version by having a temperature sending unit boss cast into the heads between the first and the second(siamised) exhaust ports.
Some late 1967 models recieved them, but the casting boss was not machined (drill & tapped) from the factory like the 68's were.
They are good street performance head and respond well to common porting techniques - BUT, if you're going for large (2.02" ) valves then find an original set of large valve heads with the factory unshrouding fly-cut. Otherwise machine work to make these work well will exceed the cost of just buying a good set of aftermarket units - unless you really need the old-style look...

I normally pay @$50~100 for a set depending on the type, condition and parts incxuded
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Last edited by Vintage 68; Oct 22nd, 09 at 12:38 PM.
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  #10  
Old Oct 22nd, 09, 12:54 PM
Z15CAM Z15CAM is offline
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Default Re: 291 heads

The 67 and 68 302 used the 291 head as did the 327 and 350 and came with either the 2.02/1.6 or 1.94/1.55 valves & possibly the smaller 1.88. The 292 was the 327/350 head. Actually the 291 and 292 are identical. Don't confuse with the 70 over the counter 340292 angle plug. All 68 4bbl and some 2 bbl CDN 327 Pontiac's used the 291 casting. The 291 casting with the smaller valve were preferred for rebuilding, as now, because the seats have not been pounded out with the larger valve.

A set of freshly machined Grumpy Spec'd 291's are worth well over a $1000 today as they take approx 2 months to build with a great deal of cooperation between the Machinist and Porter. You're looking at 8hrs of porting per port and 8 Hrs per chamber - add that up and that's just the porting labour. If you want to hit over 8 grand with stock heads it's there if you're inclined but remember just one mistake and you have just trashed a set. I grew up porting Cylinder Heads for Speed Shops and my clients and personally know how to trash a set - Because of core shifts, less then 30% of the 291 or 292 castings you find are favourable for Grumpy's Spec's - ;o)
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Last edited by Z15CAM; Oct 22nd, 09 at 01:18 PM.
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  #11  
Old Oct 22nd, 09, 01:00 PM
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Default Re: 291 heads

Check out this link for 302 casting numbers. I can not verify its accuracy. It's not my site.

http://www.holisticpage.com/camaro/camaros/302.htm
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  #12  
Old Oct 22nd, 09, 01:15 PM
OK69 OK69 is offline
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Default Re: 291 heads

Is the 291 a better head than the 492's. I have a set of 492's....
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  #13  
Old Oct 22nd, 09, 02:15 PM
Z15CAM Z15CAM is offline
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Default Re: 291 heads

I believe the 492's where the last castings of the Thick Cored Turbo Flows and had the Alternator Boss and came on the Vette and 70Z 350 LT1 (The most powerful SB GM Built to that Date). They too were available over the counter with angle plugs. I never worked on the 492's and can't comment on whether the Core Shift will adapt to Grumpy's Specs; but for all intense purposes they should and are most likely the BEST of the Turbo-Flow design as they were the last; however, they would not be considered original on a 1st GEN Camaro. After them heads the SB Cylinder Head Castings where to say the least "terrible" - very thin cores with big chambers that tended to crack or warp under stress.

Bryon that's looks like a good article. We Canadians were fortunate to have an abundance of the 291 Castings as our Pontiacs came with them. We also got the TH400 on the SBC back then and the US did not ;o)
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Last edited by Z15CAM; Oct 22nd, 09 at 02:31 PM.
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  #14  
Old Oct 22nd, 09, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: 291 heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintage 68 View Post
I've never seen a 1968 Z with a set of 186 heads...

These heads were used on many mid/High HP small blocks for 1968 - including the Z-28 and other 2.02" intake applications.
They were available in both the 1.94 and 2.02 confiquration.
They differ from the 1967 (461) version by having a temperature sending unit boss cast into the heads between the first and the second(siamised) exhaust ports.
Some late 1967 models recieved them, but the casting boss was not machined (drill & tapped) from the factory like the 68's were.
They are good street performance head and respond well to common porting techniques - BUT, if you're going for large (2.02" ) valves then find an original set of large valve heads with the factory unshrouding fly-cut. Otherwise machine work to make these work well will exceed the cost of just buying a good set of aftermarket units - unless you really need the old-style look...

I normally pay @$50~100 for a set depending on the type, condition and parts incxuded
Agreed. The 186 heads were a 69-70 thing and had accessory holes. They also came with 2.02 valves screw in studs & pushrod guide plates & also with 1.94 valves & pressed in studs.. just to further complicate things.
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  #15  
Old Oct 22nd, 09, 04:42 PM
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Default Re: 291 heads

The double hump castings used on camaros in 1967 were 462 early and through mid year and then the 291's started showing up in April or May if I remember correctly. Both 462 and 291 castings were used on the 302 with 2.02 valves and the 1.94 valve version was used on the 327/275 as well as the 350/295. The 291 castings were used throughout the 1968 model year on all small block 4 bbl applications in the camaro. I assume other cars as well but not sure.
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