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  #1  
Old Nov 8th, 10, 11:42 PM
mjlynch71 mjlynch71 is offline
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Jerod
 
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Default Double hump heads

I am getting ready to pull my 350 out of my 1969 Camaro for a rebuild. It is not going to be raced at all, just a street cruiser. I know that there are different and better heads out there, and was looking at a set of Vortec heads. I still might get a set. The issue is with the cost. Throw in a Edelbrock intake then the price is now around $750. Can I have the iron double hump heads rebuilt, and use a Edelbrock RPM intake and achive somewhat the same results. I was told that the machine shop can re-work the double humps. Thanks, Jerod
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  #2  
Old Nov 9th, 10, 04:31 AM
Eleanor's Nemesis Eleanor's Nemesis is offline
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Michael Gekko
 
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Default Re: Double hump heads

indeed a machine shop and rebuild your heads provided they aren't cracked. Sometimes the machine work can get pricey to the point that it may be cheaper to buy a new set of heads like the Vortecs and go from there. If you have to start replacing seats and installing new guides the cost really starts to go up. If your engine has never been rebuilt you can probably expect to true the heads,replace the springs, bronze wall guides will probably need to be installed, and a valve job-costs for those things along with cleaning the heads will probably run around 400-500 bucks or so. Replacing valves and valve seats starts to add up fast. When you add the cost of the new intake you are close to the cost of the Vortec set up which will outperform a stock set of doublehumps.

Get estimates on the amount of work that needs to be done by a reputable shop and see which way is a better economic move. Might be a good idea to hang on to your original castings for resale value of the car though.
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  #3  
Old Nov 9th, 10, 09:50 AM
TJS69 TJS69 is offline
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Tom
 
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Smile Re: Double hump heads

I would recommend the RHS Pro-torker heads. They outflow the vortecs and you can buy them with the old bolt patterns. No need for a new intake or valve covers. They are also available with 1.94 or 2.02 intake valves ! You can buy them bare at Summit for $250 each.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RHS-12403/
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  #4  
Old Nov 9th, 10, 12:44 PM
Moonpie Moonpie is offline
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Default Re: Double hump heads

Since your car is just a cruiser the double humps with a regular valve job will be fine. Upgrades would be larger valves if they're not already present. Beehive springs will take care of any cam you will most likely install without having to cut the spring seats. I would spend the money to get better guide sealing,not just a knurl job.
The stock Vortecs do outflow the double humps by about 50-60 cfm throughout the rpm range. As is the vortecs would be excellent for your car. You can only go about .450 lift on them without a lot of work done though.
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  #5  
Old Nov 9th, 10, 01:01 PM
Steptoe Steptoe is offline
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Steps
 
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Default Re: Double hump heads

Quote:
It is not going to be raced at all, just a street cruiser.
I cant see how hi air flow etc is going to be any advantage
And if you want good bottom end grunt go for the cast power pack heads....the small runners and increased flow speeds increase the bottom end torque rather nice,
Coimbine that with a stump puller cam with slower lobe rams, small carb truck rams horns (headers look nice but need rpms to work and dont work well out of there range
Then match up to a drive train giving somewhere around 2200 to 2400 @ 60 mph.

A comfortable cruiser that doest sound like it needs another gear on a road trip. that will spin up the rear wheels no problems when needed
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  #6  
Old Nov 10th, 10, 01:44 PM
hhott71 hhott71 is offline
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Tom
 
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Default Re: Double hump heads

You should have 041 or 186 heads, good for stockers.
The Vortecs are an immediate 40hp gain though.
The Intake really doesn't need to say edelbrock,, a Summit intake for Vortecs is half the price, and just as good.

You'll end up spending about the same amount with new vortecs vs reworking the old heads with new guides, valves and labor.
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  #7  
Old Nov 10th, 10, 03:23 PM
barryfrise barryfrise is offline
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Barry
 
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Default Re: Double hump heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJS69 View Post
I would recommend the RHS Pro-torker heads. They outflow the vortecs and you can buy them with the old bolt patterns. No need for a new intake or valve covers. They are also available with 1.94 or 2.02 intake valves ! You can buy them bare at Summit for $250 each.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RHS-12403/
Tom, how do you know they outflow Vortecs? Do you have anything other than Summit's description? I talked to RHS and they have no flow numbers for the 12403. I think Summit's product description for the 12403 is wrong and it's more applicable to the Pro Torker Vortec heads (12407 and 12410).
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  #8  
Old Nov 10th, 10, 10:05 PM
TJS69 TJS69 is offline
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Tom
 
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Smile Re: Double hump heads

Barry,

I am under the assumption that the chambers and runners are all the same in the pro-torker line. The vortec is really only referring to the bolt patterns. They claim to outflow the vortecs and all stock cast iron heads. I would also assume that the 2.02 valved heads will out flow the 1.94's.

Why would they build another type of head ? That wouldn't be very smart marketing. I wouldn't be surprised if the only real difference between the Pro-Torker's and the Pro-Action heads are the runner sizes. (same chambers)

-Tom
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  #9  
Old Nov 11th, 10, 07:30 AM
barryfrise barryfrise is offline
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Barry
 
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Default Re: Double hump heads

Well, I'm just not so sure those assumptions are true, that's all I'm saying. I called RHS and they do NOT have any flow numbers for the 12403 head, so they don't claim they flow better than Vortec's no matter what Summit's website says. Pro Torker and Pro Torker Vortec's are different castings too. I've search far and wide for a Vortec-like head that has intake ports that match up with older manifolds and I just don't think they exist. You want Vortec performance, you need to bite the bullet and spring for a Vortec manifold too. Vortec heads with older intake bolt patterns do NOT mean that the intake ports are in the same place as on the older heads, and I am learning that the hard way. It may bolt together but it won't run as hard as a pure-Vortec intake and head solution.
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  #10  
Old Nov 11th, 10, 11:02 AM
TJS69 TJS69 is offline
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Tom
 
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Talking Re: Double hump heads

Barry,

Buy the RHS Pro Action 180's then. They do outflow the vortec's. Spend a little more cash and get what you want. Call someone that sells and uses both... they probably know more about them than any tech line.

Tom
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69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 TPI transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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  #11  
Old Nov 11th, 10, 01:15 PM
barryfrise barryfrise is offline
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Barry
 
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Default Re: Double hump heads

It's not about me, it's about Jerod. I just bought EQ Vortec's. He balked at $750 so I don't think he wants to spend more. 12403's aren't significantly better than his existing heads (or your 461's) because they are not Vortec's, and anything else starts to get dangerously close to $1000 when all is said and done (assembled PA 180's or PT Vortec's). Lot's of better options at that price (Brodix IK180's, Edelbrock E-Street, both are aluminum and will save your 40 lbs). If his budget is closer to $500 then he needs to go with a local rebuild or shop carefully on craigslist or ebay. RHS, or even Summit or Jeg's brands, will make it tough to stay below $500.

As far as Pro Action 180's outflowing Vortec's? Check out http://www.racingheadservice.com/Inf...ts_New.asp#SBC and compare the PA 180's to the Pro Torker Vortec OEM's. Both tests were done on the same bench. Which one has higher flow rates and smaller valves? I'm claiming factory GM Vortec's would post very close to the same numbers on this same 4.2" bore bench.

Good luck, Jerod!
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  #12  
Old Nov 11th, 10, 06:04 PM
pink panther pink panther is offline
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harvey
 
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Location: Steubenville,ohio
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Default Re: Double hump heads

as u are only useing it as a street car. no use in going 202, 194 would be plenty the vortecs are great sreet heads and if u want to have them made up better scoggons and dickey will do them up for ya.
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  #13  
Old Nov 11th, 10, 06:42 PM
BillK BillK is offline
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Default Re: Double hump heads

Jerod,
The first thing you should do is take your present heads to your machine shop and have them check them for cracks, pull a couple of valves and see what the guides are like. I will generally do this for about $70. That way you will know what you will have to spend to get your heads in decent shape. If they are totally worn out then they are probably not worth fooling with. It doesnt take long to get into the $500 dollar range to fix up an old set of heads like those. Then again, yours might be in good shape and it wont cost much to freshen them up.
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  #14  
Old Nov 11th, 10, 08:10 PM
mjlynch71 mjlynch71 is offline
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Jerod
 
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Default Re: Double hump heads

Thanks you for all the information. I will get the heads pulled off the engine and have them checked and see what the machine shop here in Cedar Rapids says. Everyone around here says speery engine's. Thanks, Jerod
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  #15  
Old Nov 11th, 10, 09:44 PM
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jr68 jr68 is online now
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Jerry R.
 
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Default Re: Double hump heads

Lots of opinions here so let me throw mine in.
Keep the double hump old school heads
if your just gonna cruz around town and sound cool. Anyone can buy hi flowing aftermarket heads but not many are driving around with a set of double humps.
I am running them on my 327 and did the porting and polishing myself, and had a shop put in hardened valve seats. They run just fine for me and my motor makes plenty of power.
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Team Camaro Tech > First Generation Camaro Info and Tech - 1967- 1969 "Where it all started" > Engine      Current Topic: Double hump heads
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