[MoeSS396]

Any ideas guys? This is for street performance and a little time at the strip. Im kinda leaning towards the lil 327. It made 360hp in the vette. Im mainly looking for torq but dont have the money for a stroker or big block. Has any experienced a hopped up 327? I know know what the 350 is like and kinda wanna be alittle different. Lets say i allready had a 327 with 10.35 forged pistons and edelbrouch RPM AL. heads what type of cam would you run. I was thinking solid with around 285grind, 535 in 555ex from comp. or any better ideas?

[CamaroNOTcamero]

cam choice is too big for torque. 327s are more high winders then torque motors. a good street/strip cam will be about 230-240 degrees duration at .050" solid or hydrualic is good.
visit www.compcams.com and check out there grinds.

[Deimos]

Yeah 327 are the most smallest stroke SB motor I believe. Don't qoute me on this, but I do know if you need to move something big you use torque or have a really deep rear gear. 350's are better for torque. If you want you can find a cheapo 305 motor out of a camaro and throw a 400 crank in it. See 350's and 305 share the same crank size. If not tell me what you want and usually I can find someone in America willing to sell it for the price your looking for. Right now, I know of 350's piled up like chords of wood. Being sold for 75 bucks. So just let me know what car and size and I can find an engine to match.


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It is better to burn out than fade away

[cerbz]

be real diffetn and bulid a 302, i know lots of money.
327`s are a high rev mtr, and do best with at least 3:55 gears,(3000-3500 stall if auto)keep the comp ratio to atleast 10.25 and no more than 235 @.50 on the camif you want any bottom end(lift would have alot to deal what kind of heads your going to use), if you want any bottom end. as you can see high end mtr.power band around 3500-3800 and stop pulling around 6800(solid cam)
350 atleast 9.75 comp ratio 3:31 gears atleast (3000 stall if auto)230 cam(atleast a good set of hump heads).4.80 -.512 lift power band 3000-6200 hyd cam solid cam 6500 a hyd cam is out of the game after 6300-6500rpm
I`ve had both, 327 11:1 soild erson cam 238@.50 .520 lift,fully ported 461`s humps,heads were milled way down block deck .05 bored .040 over steel shim head gaskets,th 350 3500 stall 3:73 posi i loved this mtr when it ran right, it was very hard to run it on pump gas it like about 50-50 of race gas vp110 and 92,but it could be driven on 92 running a little bit fat and retared to 12O int and 32o total, 15 and 36 seemed best,I have 3:31 posi and they were just to high to get a launch,was ethier smoke `em or bog it i ended up spinning a main now it sits on the stand waiting for that one day I find a new crank never did get it to the track
right now I got a 350 10.5:1 230@50 512 lift(1.6 rockers)hyd cam (comp280 magnum) trick flow twisted wedge heads(g1`s) slight port work just a good clean up its honest 400hp its way more drivalbe than the 327, i can run it on pump gas(might have the 327 also if i had the alum heads then 14int 36Ototal pump gas(race gas dose wake it up alittle) power band 3000-6200 i can launh it ok now, bfg drags, and sub frame`s is the only thing i have, I break mtr mounts all the time,(driver side dont reall want solids)
I still spin the tires in 2nd(street tires go up in smoke in 2nd)
iy you plain to drive the street more than the weekends go 350, I`d say they both make about the same power, just where do you want the tach to be?

[PDQUICK]

I've run a lot of 327's and 350's. I like the 327's in road race cars as they have less inertia and wind up faster than the 350 coming out of turns. The 350's are a better drag race engine since they always make more torque at lower revs.

I agree with pretty much everything that cerbz says including the 302 idea!! My favorite engine that I ever built is a 302 for my bud's 64 'Vette. It isn't that expensive either. You are just putting a 3.00" stroke crank in a 327/350 block! The only pricey part is the pistons, 302 slugs tend to be pricey (I think they are all forged!). The result is a copy of the infamous, screamin', Z-28 engine.

I've run cams in both engines with up to 260* duration @ .050" but, if you build a 302/327 like this, they don't have any low torque and you will need low gears in the rear. I find these engines like 3.90-4.88 rear gears. The plus side is that a well built 302/327 with a mech. cam has 8500 RPM potential!!

Build the 302 just so you can tell everybody you have one!! There's nothing like bangin' gears around town at 8000+ RPM!

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Paul D.

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68RS, 331, 10.5:1, 4spd, 3.90 9", lowered, 245-45-16's all 'round

[MoeSS396]

If the 327 winds up faster shouldnt it be a beast at drag racing. The faster you wind the better right? Or are you talking about winding up real well at lest say 3000+ rpm. Does anyone know the torq that 360 hp vette motor made. I know the LT1 had 370 hp and 380 torq. I just like to be a little different and the 327 sounds like a screamer. About the 302 i have heard that it isnt the most street mannered motor but is a great performer. Im not gonna be mixing race fuel for it so compression is gonna be knocked down to at least 10-1. Probally leaning towards the 282 solid from comp. And edelbrouchs RPM Al. heads because i have a set already. maybe some one could dyno this for me ok lets say 327 10-1, comp 282 336@.05 and 495 lift with 110 degrees lobe seperation solid mag,1.6 roller rockers, 1-5/8 super comp headers, 770 holly street avenger vac secondary, air gap rpm or the victor jr i havent decided. I would love to know what kinda torq this beast makes Will you please try this other cam too the comp 294 solid 248 @ .05 and 525 lift with 110 lobe seperation

[This message has been edited by MoeSS396 (edited 12-06-2001).]

[This message has been edited by MoeSS396 (edited 12-06-2001).]

[CamaroNOTcamero]

i'll try it out with a few different cam profiles, i have lots on file. I'll use Dart Iron eagle 215cc heads (64cc chambers) 10:1 small tube headers and open exhaust, a single plane manifold with a 650cfm carb. the 1.6 ratio rockers are a waste of money on a street engine, you need bigger springs/pushrods and may yeild 5hp at 6500 rpms.
i'm assuming you want a streetable but high winding engine, so i'll try my best to find you a good combo.

[CamaroNOTcamero]

Dart iron eagle's(2.02/1.60 valves). a single plane manifold with 650cfm carb, 10:1 comp and a 282S solid cam with 1.5 ratio yeilded:
448HP at 6500rpms
428tq at 5000rpms

the same engine with the 294S comp solid cam yeilded:
474hp at 6500rpms
418tq at 5500rpms

similar engine (i had to raise the compression to 10.5:1 as required by the cam) and put in a 750 CFM carb with the 306S comp solid cam yeiled:
495hp at 6500 rpms
424tq at 5500 rpms
this would be a limited street use cam, and needs a 3500 stall minimum if running with an automatic, and big gears (probably 4.10) as recommened in comp's catalog. this is a wild cam, and if you use it, you'll know it!
I would recommend the 282 or 294 magnum solid cam as they are much more streetable, and will have more low end torque, and have broader HP and torque curves. 10.5:1 compression is pushing it for street use, and may result in detonation problems, but the 282 and 294 would be fine with 9.5:1 or 10:1.
you'll definetly want a solid cam, as this thing will be a high winder. dont fall for rollers, they arent a street thing, and cost more then they are worth on the street (at the track they are king).
please remember the desktop dyno numbers aren't actual numbers but should serve only to give an idea of of curves power ranges trends and correct part choices and a good idea of the HP, and is by no means flawless.

[sneakey pete]

If you are looking for torque then definetly use the 350. Also if you are looking for torque consider longer rods (thats if you don't have the pistons and rods yet) because the longer the rod the better the geometry for rod angle. Hard to explain properly as I'm not a goorue but there is less internal stress because the rod isn't on as much of an angle to the crank but, but, and it's a big but, more importantly, your pistons stay at the top longer giving you more time for compression to build. With the cam choice you are talking,(which is pretty big) you may want to consider putting in a stroker crank and going the 383 direction but involves extra machining for clearances. As far as 302, 327, or 350 the are all 4.0" bore so really the same blocks except for the main-journal diameters kept changing for different years, but if you have a block now basically you have your choice as to what motor to build just by crank choice. If you use a 283 crank (3" stroke) you get a 302, if you use a 327 crank (3.25" stroke) you get a 327, if you use a 350 crank (3.48" stroke) you get a 350, if you use a 400 crank (3.75" stroke) & bore it out 30 you get a 383. Again you have to watch your journal sizing/machining. Having said all that, you said $ are a factor so stroking and extensive machine work is pretty much out the door. You are looking for torque so the 327 route is pretty much out the door so looking like a 350 or 355 is the ticket. Do some reading on the longer rods, lots of extra potential here (but then you are loking at machine work to your pistons or purchasing new ones). But I have rambelled on way too much, good luck eh!

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'68 Camaro, 350 (30 over), Forged TRW 9.8, Scat 4340 Crank, RPM Air Gap, RPM Alum. heads,
Holley 770, Turbo 400, 2.73 going to 4.11, Stock stall going to 2800, Comp Cams 280H-10.
Will be adding 250 HP Giggle Gas.
(Hope to run high 11's without and get into 10's with the HUMOR BUTTON Squeeeeezzed)

[Deimos]

Alright just so you know the 327 understroked is called a 307 not a 302. A 302 is a stroked out version of the 283. Just food for thought for you so you can get your story straight.

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It is better to burn out than fade away

[Deimos]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sneakey pete:
If you are looking for torque then definetly use the 350. Also if you are looking for torque consider longer rods (thats if you don't have the pistons and rods yet) because the longer the rod the better the geometry for rod angle. Hard to explain properly as I'm not a goorue but there is less internal stress because the rod isn't on as much of an angle to the crank but, but, and it's a big but, more importantly, your pistons stay at the top longer giving you more time for compression to build. With the cam choice you are talking,(which is pretty big) you may want to consider putting in a stroker crank and going the 383 direction but involves extra machining for clearances. As far as 302, 327, or 350 the are all 4.0" bore so really the same blocks except for the main-journal diameters kept changing for different years, but if you have a block now basically you have your choice as to what motor to build just by crank choice. If you use a 283 crank (3" stroke) you get a 302, if you use a 327 crank (3.25" stroke) you get a 327, if you use a 350 crank (3.48" stroke) you get a 350, if you use a 400 crank (3.75" stroke) & bore it out 30 you get a 383. Again you have to watch your journal sizing/machining. Having said all that, you said $ are a factor so stroking and extensive machine work is pretty much out the door. You are looking for torque so the 327 route is pretty much out the door so looking like a 350 or 355 is the ticket. Do some reading on the longer rods, lots of extra potential here (but then you are loking at machine work to your pistons or purchasing new ones). But I have rambelled on way too much, good luck eh!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


First off, the high winding motor will not get you down the track a 400 Sb with do that if it has a 350 crank in it (377) and has some good compression. Also, as for longer rods. They don't create less stress. If anything it is more because the piston has a longer stroke or path to follow. As for the 1.6 rockers, they are good if your using the motor and wrapping the RPMS up high because they keep the vavles open longer.

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It is better to burn out than fade away

[pdq67]

Think that the 360hp/327 had 360 pound-foot of torque!

May I suggest one of the all time sweetest engines that ever came down the pike if you want to take the time to build it is the 352!

It is the 350 that GM shoulda built.

You take a .030" over 400 block and add a medium journal 3.25" stroke, 327 crank with the needed spacer bearings. A set of the longest rods you can buy and afford plus the custom pistons to fit everything together.

Add a 282S solid cam for good street manners. Or even one like the big Duntov 30-30 cam, if you want more upstairs! A Victor Jr. w/ a 750cfm, 3310-2 Holley w/ the correct jetting and secondary spring or even a correctly sized double pumper to breathe upstairs and a good set of long four tube headers.

It will run like a big Z-28, 302 engine, but has good torque b/c it's bigger! IMHO. pdq67

[PDQUICK]

Deimos,

Not to offend but, your dead wrong bud!! My stories straight as it gets!

A 302 is a destroked 327 (a 283 crank in a 327/350 block!!)

A 307 is a stroked 283 ( a 327 crank in a 283 block)

MoeSS396,

327's were a beast at the drags until the late 80's when the pro stock rules got changed around and big blocks (500 ci) got popular!! Grumpy Jenkins successfully campained Pro-Stock Camaros and Monzas forever and his weapon of choice was a 331 inch variant!!

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Paul D.

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68RS, 331, 10.5:1, 4spd, 3.90 9", lowered, 245-45-16's all 'round

[pdq67]

Rigt-on, Paul D.!

Like's been said in the past, the 327 was just made right from GM to begin with. It has the highest power/cubic inch potential of all the SB's. You can make more power with a bigger engine but ratio-wise, the 327 and its variations will produce more per cubic inch. Or so I've read. IMHO. pdq67

PS., BTW, Whats the D. stand for, mine is Dean.

[PDQUICK]

My "D" is for DeYeso! Pronounced like D-S-O!
I actually designed/marketed a line of high performance igniton controls (which did not take off and left me with some pretty big debt!!) under the PDQuick trade name back in the early 90's!