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  #1  
Old Jul 2nd, 11, 10:11 PM
Lotus1_2_3 Lotus1_2_3 is offline

 
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Default How to find build sheet for my 69

Hey all,

Another newb question here. My was just delivered today after a week of waiting. It's beautiful; numbers matching body and engine, very much original interior, and great paint. Just a couple small problems like dead lightbulbs and a small transmission fluid leak. I'd really like to find out how to see what originally came on this car. For example, I'm not sure if it came with dual exhaust or not. Surely there's somewhere I could plug in the numbers and see what the car came with, right? It would be cool to know. I want to keep it as original as possible without compromising safety and reliability. Here's a few pictures of what she looked like when she first arrived.

Off topic question: did the "camaro" emblems come on the side of the LM1's originally? Some pictures have them, some don't. Same thing with the louvers. Thanks for your help, guys. I can't wait to learn more about this thing.

Last edited by Lotus1_2_3; Nov 25th, 11 at 02:36 PM.
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  #2  
Old Jul 2nd, 11, 10:25 PM
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69-Pace 69-Pace is offline
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Default Re: How to find build sheet for my 69

Grif - Glad she arrived safe and sound. The so called Build Sheets aka Broadcast Sheets are unheard of in Norwood built cars. Each component assembly group on the line had one so the assembly could be matched up with the body on the line. Most were taped to the vehicle as it rolled through, then discarded at end of the line.

LA built cars there seems to be a history of finding one on top of the fuel tank. If you look through the wheel well you may see a slice of it. They also sometimes show up under the rear seat stuck in the springs - but that is more common in Impalas and Chevelles.

check the CRG website for the whole story on the sheets and the guys at CRG in the forums will have all the details on your ride. Send an email to Kurt after you join and send him the vin he can check the master registry for your vehicle. http://www.camaros.org

Brian
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  #3  
Old Jul 2nd, 11, 10:32 PM
Lotus1_2_3 Lotus1_2_3 is offline

 
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Default Re: How to find build sheet for my 69

Thank you for the prompt reply. I'll check out that site. This is an LA car, so maybe I'll be able to find it; I'll check tomorrow. And I will send Kurt an email. Thank you!!
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  #4  
Old Jul 3rd, 11, 12:50 AM
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parkbrau parkbrau is offline
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Default Re: How to find build sheet for my 69

The louvers were part of the Z-21 option. Look in the wheel well on top of the rear frame rail for a plate. If the plate is there it most likely had dual exhaust. But those plates can be bought aftermarket and welded in place.....one way to see if they were placed there aftermarket is most.... I say most, not all, folks put a continuous weld bead when welding it. The factory dudes tacked it on with about 3 welds on top and bottom. If there, compare it to the drivers side frame rail bracket.

If you cant see signs of the broadcast sheet...don't stop looking. Run your tank empty as you can and drop the tank, CAREFULLY! the sheet might still be there and most likely is stuck to the sound deadener material that was placed on the tank prior to install. But ask the previous if he dropped the tank. Might save you time.

What are the codes on your protecto plate??
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  #5  
Old Jul 3rd, 11, 03:04 AM
YenkoSC YenkoSC is offline
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Default Re: How to find build sheet for my 69

On my 69 LM1, I found the broadcast sheet in perfect condition on top of the fuel tank. Mine also has the Camaro emblems on the side (original paint and panels never replaced)
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It really confuses me that the rare "barn-find" in untouched and all original condition is the hot rodder's dream come true. It seems we love originality, yet we can't wait to destroy it.

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  #6  
Old Jul 3rd, 11, 05:12 AM
iluv69s iluv69s is offline
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Default Re: How to find build sheet for my 69

I have found 2 Norwood build/broadcast sheets..although rare, they do exist.
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  #7  
Old Jul 3rd, 11, 10:32 AM
Eric Kammerer Eric Kammerer is offline
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Default Re: How to find build sheet for my 69

The frame rail reinforcing plate for dual exhaust mentioned above is found on the driver side rail, behind the tire. Not all LM1s had dual exhaust.

Here is the 69 model specific info from the CRG site: http://camaros.org/diffs69.shtml

There is also an LM1 dedicated website, http://www.69lm1.com/faq.htm

Some other interesting info online includes a 69 Camaro specification package http://www.scribd.com/doc/26771252/6...o-Spec-Package

and the 69 Assembly Instruction Manual (AIM) http://www.scribd.com/doc/32913817/69-Camaro-AIM

If you have a good internet connection, both of those PDFs have a lot of important info you might want/need.

Regarding some other answers/observations:

All models had the "Camaro" script behind the front wheels, except rally sport cars, which had a "rally-sport" emblem in that location. The reason you see a lot of cars without the "Camaro" is because when replacing fenders and repainting, it is a pain to get the nuts on the back of the emblem, or they have been left off for a "cleaner" look.

The chrome accents on the rear quarter gills were part of the Z21 Style Trim package, as noted, and were also installed on SS cars (part of the Z27 RPO, called "simulated rear fender louvers". So, these are not present on all cars.

The car looks great, so what I am typing that follows are just little nitpicky things that are not "correct" for the car if it is an original LM1. Not finding fault, just informing...

- Obviously the SS badges are not correct, but you are lucky that the SS emblems under the fender "Camaro" script were not installed. If you wanted to make it more correct, you could just replace the grille and tailpanel badges with the correct blue bowtie emblems. Oh, and the steering wheel shroud emblem, too.

- The car is missing the "Camaro by Chevrolet" emblem from the header panel (the part between the grille and hood) and from the deck lid (a factory D80 spoiler car would have had the emblem repositioned in the alternate location on the passenger side of the lid, just ahead of the spoiler; dealer installed spoiler cars often had this emblem left off, as do many guys who install the spoiler at some point.

- the black grille is incorrect, should be silver http://camaros.org/exterior.shtml#1969Grille

- the rally stripes are incorrect in several ways. First, they were only available as part of RPO Z28, Z11 (the Indy Pace Car replicas), and Z10 ( http://camaros.org/69pacer.shtml#Z10 ). Also, assuming the car is not a super early build, it looks like the rear stripes are spaced like the 67-68 stripes. Regardless, they look nice and getting rid of them would require a lot of effort and money, so I would not bother.

- unless the car would be a very late build for an LM1, the hood is not "correct" (LM1 ordering ended in Dec 68 from what I recall, and the ZL2 special ducted hood entered production in Jan 69; I assume the LM1 site or the CRG would know if any LM1 cars were produced with the ZL2 hood). Again, it is a very common addition to a 67-69 Camaro, and it looks good on your car. If it does not have all the OE style components to make it "functional" (flapper door, solenoid and harnesses/linkage to open it when the throttle is wide open, it at least lets hot underhood air out. If you don't care about correct, you can easily get an aluminum cake pan of the correct diameter and modify it to fit on the carb to seal the air cleaner to the cowl hood opening, just to get cooler air all the time.

Like I said, the car looks really nice, and is a color that is not common but appears to be well done on your car, so please do not stress the "incorrect" things I pointed out. Good luck and welcome to TC!

P.S. My 69 vert started life as an L6 car, but it now has a 396 and a 5-speed; once it is released from paint jail, it will be gray (originally a Dover White car) with black rally stripes that are my and my painters interpretation of the 5th generation rally stripes. Because it now has a 396, we are blacking out the tailpanel around the taillights like an original SS396 car, and it has a black grille because I like the look better than the silver, especially with a metallic gray paint color. And, I am using the blue bowtie emblems in the grille and tail, but I put the 396 badges in front of the marker lights. Oh, and it has a GM cowl hood. So mine will be more bastardized than yours is, but it is going to be the way I want it. I may get some "experts" giving me grief about the combo, but I hope that most will just think it looks cool.
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Last edited by Eric Kammerer; Jul 3rd, 11 at 10:45 AM.
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  #8  
Old Jul 3rd, 11, 03:05 PM
Lotus1_2_3 Lotus1_2_3 is offline

 
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Default Re: How to find build sheet for my 69

Hey thanks guys. Today we just fixed a transmission fluid leak. We dropped the pan and put a new filter and seal in. It appears that the car had a single exhaust before the dual exhaust was put in. Just another thing I'll have to put back original when I restore it...one peculiar thing that was pointed out was that it looks like the car originally was a column shifter car. Could it be possible that something was changed? The seller listed all of the stuff as original, but the guys showing me some stuff said it looks like it was changed. I read LM1s had floor shifters...I hope I didn't get fooled! I'll post the numbers here. If someone could tell me which numbers to copy here that would be great. It would be really awesome if I could post the numbers here and have someone help me out. Also, the floor shifter is about a notch off (it's in 3 when it looks like it's in 2). Is this normal, and how do you fix it? I'm hoping it's not a sign of the aforementioned column -> floor switch...thanks for the help, guys. Y'all are awesome.
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  #9  
Old Jul 3rd, 11, 03:14 PM
Lotus1_2_3 Lotus1_2_3 is offline

 
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Default Re: How to find build sheet for my 69

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Kammerer View Post
The frame rail reinforcing plate for dual exhaust mentioned above is found on the driver side rail, behind the tire. Not all LM1s had dual exhaust.

Here is the 69 model specific info from the CRG site: http://camaros.org/diffs69.shtml

There is also an LM1 dedicated website, http://www.69lm1.com/faq.htm

Some other interesting info online includes a 69 Camaro specification package http://www.scribd.com/doc/26771252/6...o-Spec-Package

and the 69 Assembly Instruction Manual (AIM) http://www.scribd.com/doc/32913817/69-Camaro-AIM

If you have a good internet connection, both of those PDFs have a lot of important info you might want/need.

Regarding some other answers/observations:

All models had the "Camaro" script behind the front wheels, except rally sport cars, which had a "rally-sport" emblem in that location. The reason you see a lot of cars without the "Camaro" is because when replacing fenders and repainting, it is a pain to get the nuts on the back of the emblem, or they have been left off for a "cleaner" look.

The chrome accents on the rear quarter gills were part of the Z21 Style Trim package, as noted, and were also installed on SS cars (part of the Z27 RPO, called "simulated rear fender louvers". So, these are not present on all cars.

The car looks great, so what I am typing that follows are just little nitpicky things that are not "correct" for the car if it is an original LM1. Not finding fault, just informing...

- Obviously the SS badges are not correct, but you are lucky that the SS emblems under the fender "Camaro" script were not installed. If you wanted to make it more correct, you could just replace the grille and tailpanel badges with the correct blue bowtie emblems. Oh, and the steering wheel shroud emblem, too.

- The car is missing the "Camaro by Chevrolet" emblem from the header panel (the part between the grille and hood) and from the deck lid (a factory D80 spoiler car would have had the emblem repositioned in the alternate location on the passenger side of the lid, just ahead of the spoiler; dealer installed spoiler cars often had this emblem left off, as do many guys who install the spoiler at some point.

- the black grille is incorrect, should be silver http://camaros.org/exterior.shtml#1969Grille

- the rally stripes are incorrect in several ways. First, they were only available as part of RPO Z28, Z11 (the Indy Pace Car replicas), and Z10 ( http://camaros.org/69pacer.shtml#Z10 ). Also, assuming the car is not a super early build, it looks like the rear stripes are spaced like the 67-68 stripes. Regardless, they look nice and getting rid of them would require a lot of effort and money, so I would not bother.

- unless the car would be a very late build for an LM1, the hood is not "correct" (LM1 ordering ended in Dec 68 from what I recall, and the ZL2 special ducted hood entered production in Jan 69; I assume the LM1 site or the CRG would know if any LM1 cars were produced with the ZL2 hood). Again, it is a very common addition to a 67-69 Camaro, and it looks good on your car. If it does not have all the OE style components to make it "functional" (flapper door, solenoid and harnesses/linkage to open it when the throttle is wide open, it at least lets hot underhood air out. If you don't care about correct, you can easily get an aluminum cake pan of the correct diameter and modify it to fit on the carb to seal the air cleaner to the cowl hood opening, just to get cooler air all the time.

Like I said, the car looks really nice, and is a color that is not common but appears to be well done on your car, so please do not stress the "incorrect" things I pointed out. Good luck and welcome to TC!

P.S. My 69 vert started life as an L6 car, but it now has a 396 and a 5-speed; once it is released from paint jail, it will be gray (originally a Dover White car) with black rally stripes that are my and my painters interpretation of the 5th generation rally stripes. Because it now has a 396, we are blacking out the tailpanel around the taillights like an original SS396 car, and it has a black grille because I like the look better than the silver, especially with a metallic gray paint color. And, I am using the blue bowtie emblems in the grille and tail, but I put the 396 badges in front of the marker lights. Oh, and it has a GM cowl hood. So mine will be more bastardized than yours is, but it is going to be the way I want it. I may get some "experts" giving me grief about the combo, but I hope that most will just think it looks cool.
You've made a really nice list of things for me to keep on the watch, and I appreciate that. One thing the seller did send is the original flat hood and 3 of the 4 dog dish hubcaps (these are in bad shape, though). I was thinking of putting the SS emblems on the side, but I would try and do so by removing the pins and using double sided tape. As for the 'Camaro by Chevrolet' emblem on the hood-- this originally came on LM1 cars? If so, I would probably add it back, given the purists wouldn't mind. Basically what I want is for the car to hold its value (I'm thinking the matching numbers will contribute to this as well as it being an LM1), and for it to look cool at the same time, hence the louvers, SS badging, etc. Someday I'll bring it back to the way it was built originally. By then I want a real z28 or SS--hopefully they'll be around in 20-30 years! Thanks again for your help.
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  #10  
Old Jul 3rd, 11, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: How to find build sheet for my 69

He mentioned that "IF" the LM1 is also an RS then only the Rally Sport script would be on the fender, no 'Camaro' word at all. But since you dont have the RS package, you would need to have 'Camaro' script behind the front wheels.
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  #11  
Old Jul 3rd, 11, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: How to find build sheet for my 69

Griff
All Camaro's have Camaro by Chevrolet emblems on the hood and deck-lids.

All you would need to to is remove the front and rear SS and the steering wheel emblem and replace the front, rear and steering with blue bow tie emblems to be correct.

Did you say one fender has SS? if so remove that and leave the Camaro Script as it is correct since your vehicle is not RS

Brian
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  #12  
Old Jul 3rd, 11, 04:22 PM
john68 john68 is offline
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Default Re: How to find build sheet for my 69

Sorry in 67 it was Chevrolet, and Camaro under, in block letters.
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  #13  
Old Jul 3rd, 11, 04:38 PM
Lotus1_2_3 Lotus1_2_3 is offline

 
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Default Re: How to find build sheet for my 69

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69-Pace View Post
Griff
All Camaro's have Camaro by Chevrolet emblems on the hood and deck-lids.

All you would need to to is remove the front and rear SS and the steering wheel emblem and replace the front, rear and steering with blue bow tie emblems to be correct.

Did you say one fender has SS? if so remove that and leave the Camaro Script as it is correct since your vehicle is not RS

Brian
Nope, it has 3 badges (grill, rear, and steering wheel). I'll have to find one of the original 'Camaro' emblems for the hood because it's missing-- anyone know of a good site to buy one? In the future I might take another member's advice and put the bowtie back on the front and get a custom made LM-1 badge for the back and put the right steering wheel on. That could look cool. And any idea about tightening up that automatic shifter so it's not off a notch? Thanks in advance. Brian, you've been quite helpful.
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  #14  
Old Jul 4th, 11, 07:04 AM
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KevinW KevinW is offline
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Default Re: How to find build sheet for my 69

There is an adjustment slot/nut on the shifter to adjust the gear selector. Just take off the screws to lift the plates from around the shifter. With the trans in park, adjust the shifter to align with the park detent all the way forward.

What did the Mech see that pointed you to column shift? Was it the lever on the end of the column? All 69 columns had that, it was used for the backdrive (linkage to operate the reverse lights). You would have to investigate the wiring harnesses and other things to be sure. But you have a floor shift column and dash. But all of that is easily replaced.

BTW, there has never been an emblem for the hood in 69 except for 302 (Z/28) only. Do not bother looking for one, it will not be original in any configuration.

Have fun with you new purchase and don't sweat the small stuff. Drive it and Enjoy!
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  #15  
Old Jul 4th, 11, 07:29 AM
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Default Re: How to find build sheet for my 69

Keep in mind the LM1 was an engine option only... you could have auto tranny with column shift, auto tranny with floor console, stick shift on column or stick shift on floor with or without console...
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That will be the beginning." Louis L'Amour

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