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  #1  
Old Sep 14th, 11, 09:30 PM
bigkid bigkid is offline

Ken
 
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Default 396 with 454 crank

Let me start off by saying I understand that there is no substitute for cubic inches and that many of you will suggest just going to a 454 block. That being said, I currently have a 396 which is .030 over. I have read about individuals putting in a 4 inch crank. Do they use a standard 6.135 rods or are there special rods to accommodate the additional quarter-inch stroke? Or do they use special pistons with a smaller compression height? I am interested in this and would like to know if anybody has done this and what were the results. Thanks.
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  #2  
Old Sep 15th, 11, 12:16 AM
buenymayor buenymayor is offline
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Brian
 
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Default Re: 396 with 454 crank

You'll have to get piston with a different compression height or 1/8" shorter rod. I doubt you'll find shorter rods, so you'd have to have a custom set of pistons made.
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  #3  
Old Sep 15th, 11, 01:30 AM
Jess67 Jess67 is offline
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Jess
 
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Default Re: 396 with 454 crank

I have 396 crank in a 454 block in my car. I used the stock rods and ordered a set of forged pistons. They are TRW from SUmmit Racing. They are the 427 pistons, no need for special rods or cutting pistons. 454 uses the same bore as a 427. If you have the block bored you will need to upsize your piston to your bore. I have the 427 pistons with barely any dome at all. Works great and runs well...
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  #4  
Old Sep 15th, 11, 05:47 AM
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NHBandit NHBandit is offline
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Mark
 
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Default Re: 396 with 454 crank

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess67 View Post
I have 396 crank in a 454 block in my car. I used the stock rods and ordered a set of forged pistons. They are TRW from SUmmit Racing. They are the 427 pistons, no need for special rods or cutting pistons. 454 uses the same bore as a 427. If you have the block bored you will need to upsize your piston to your bore. I have the 427 pistons with barely any dome at all. Works great and runs well...
He is wanting to go the other way and I know of no stock pistons that would work for this combo. Custom made pistons will be needed and that generally equals spending more bucks. You would also almost definately need to get the crank reballanced. For the same money you could probably buy a set of 454 pistons and have your block bored to match but it's my experience that only the earlier 396 blocks have thick enough cylinder walls to do that. You would have to get the block sonic tested. In the old days people would pop out the freeze plugs and see if a standard size pencil would fit between the cylinder walls. If it fit, the walls are too thin. I don't think I'd trust that with a big dollar engine..
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  #5  
Old Sep 15th, 11, 05:53 AM
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Bryon / Big B
 
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Default Re: 396 with 454 crank

Keith Black does make a piston for that application, 396 block and 454 crank. I think it comes out to about 434 cubic inches.

Here is the 4.125 bore version but they make other sizes.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/UEM-KB361-STD/

This is a Hypereutectic piston. Not sure if they make a forged version.
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  #6  
Old Sep 15th, 11, 11:31 AM
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NHBandit NHBandit is offline
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Mark
 
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Default Re: 396 with 454 crank

That will keep the cost down. I'd still have it all reballanced but that's just me.
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  #7  
Old Sep 15th, 11, 02:02 PM
Z15CAM Z15CAM is offline
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Ron
 
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Default Re: 396 with 454 crank

This can be done using 454 Pistons to build a 454 or 496+ci Stroker using with the 3855961....396.......65-66...2 or 4 bolt - 3855961....427.......66......2-bolt Block - can be Bored to 4.335" & use a +.100" 454 Piston - If they Exist. The 961 casting require the Groved Rear Cam Bearing and used the Oil Filter Canister - Very Strong Block. The Oil Pan Cavity will most likely have to be Ground out for the Longer Throw of the 454 & Stroker Cranks.

Other words,considering the rarity & if you don't have the 961 65/66 Block, it's not practicable to use the Kieth Black Small Bore Piston in a Post 66 396 Block, as you have to Fly Cut Valve reliefs in top of the Deck to accommodate Larger Valves, your better of starting with either a 427 or 454 block.

The 73 to approx 75 LS4 2 or 4 Bolt 454 with 781 Heads is a very nice Unit to start with and can still be found verily cheap at the Price of Scrap Iron. Most Trucks with this block had Forged Cranks.
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Last edited by Z15CAM; Sep 15th, 11 at 02:27 PM.
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  #8  
Old Sep 15th, 11, 02:20 PM
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Bryon / Big B
 
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Default Re: 396 with 454 crank

Ken wanted to use his 396 block, but what Ron says is true.

Much better to sell that 396 block and build a 454 plus motor unless the block is correct for your car. Even the 454 block with 2 bolt mains are fine and strong (but I would use studs rather than bolts).

Around here the 454s can't be found for scrap iron price any more, but they are still reasonable.
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  #9  
Old Sep 15th, 11, 03:04 PM
bigkid bigkid is offline

Ken
 
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Default Re: 396 with 454 crank

Thanks for the help. I thought someone might make a standard piston for that application but I guess it's all geared toward 427 (4.125) or bigger. I guess starting over with a 454 block is the best way.
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  #10  
Old Sep 15th, 11, 03:34 PM
Z15CAM Z15CAM is offline
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Ron
 
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Default Re: 396 with 454 crank

http://web.archive.org/web/200805130...ec.com/bbc.htm

Look for this Block # ______ in a truck with a forged Crank 2 or 4 Bolt considering a cast Crank will get you to 6400rom and 550 Hp - (let me find the Casting #) if not with the Forged OEM 454 Crank, buy a an Eagle Forged Crank searching for 7000rpm and over 600Hp, 2 or 4 Bolt Block s not essential. Use ARP Main Studs in a 2 Bolt & consider a Fabricated Windage Tray with a 7 Quart Side Kick with Traps after 6200rpm.

Costs Add UP - Particularly the Valve Train in a MK IV.

NOTE: I kinda like the Cast 454 Crank; It`s Lighter and Revs like Crazy to 6400rpm easy 525Hp compared to Heavier Forged Unit which is capable of 7000+rpm over 600HP but the Valve Train Costs more then the Mill, as your looking at Ultra Lite Severe Duty Valves with either a Jomar Girdle or an Expensive Shaft Roller Rocker System.

Between 9.5 to a 10.7:1 Static Compression on Pump of course. About the only Cheap Solution - My Suggestion - is the Hydraulic FT 6800rpm Cam with ARP Rocker Studs and descent Roller Rockers is the CCA-XM278H-12 with a 9.5 to 10:2 Static Compression with CCA-924 or 925 Springs short shifting at 5800 hoping to it it all in by 6200rpm, Holley 750Dp/Elelbrock RPM Intake - After 10:1 Static you should consider an Expensive Forged Crank, Forged Pistons and either a SFT or SR 7000rpm Setup = In my opinion, NOT worth the Expense for another 100Hp & 100 ft/lbs or torque , considering the Drivability with a MKIV - Unless your 1/4 Mile Racing and EXPECT Everything to Break - Just ask Fred - LOL.

Not saying you can't get away with a 600Hp+ 7000rpm SFT or SR MKIV on the Street with Pump Gas; providing you treat her Respectively.

I do the Forged 7000rpm Conception based with a a with a 460ci 73 LS4 MKIV Lunati SR/3:31/M21 70Z - Haven't blown her up after 6 Years and Running Strong

Is the Money over the CCA-XM278H-12 Worth it (I Love that Cam) - NOT - That Cam Provided me with everything simply because, I can't Plant my Shoes with P295 X15" Comp T/A Radials - Want a Street or Road Race - God Bless You.
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Last edited by Z15CAM; Sep 15th, 11 at 06:03 PM.
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  #11  
Old Sep 15th, 11, 09:37 PM
97Z4C 97Z4C is offline
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darrell
 
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Default Re: 396 with 454 crank

you will be much happier with out come of a 468
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  #12  
Old Sep 16th, 11, 03:51 PM
Z15CAM Z15CAM is offline
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Ron
 
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Default Re: 396 with 454 crank

Quote:
you will be much happier with out come of a 468
Pretty well a Last Bore at .060" (4.31") - But then, will you ever put more then 200,000 miles on her.

I'm at .030" over @ 4.280" Bore, 460ci, 10.25:1 MK IV and pleased with the dependability with a 6700 to 7000rpm 600+Hp SR on Pump Gas.

It's a pig on Gas - Every time you open the 4's or twitch the peddle there's goes a 1/2 Gallon - You learn to Thread Pedal Very lightly and save a Petal to Metal as a one time Experience for the Outing

I want to Ride my Laverda 750 SF or 84 Volvo GL - We are a SICK LOT.
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Last edited by Z15CAM; Sep 16th, 11 at 07:07 PM.
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