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  #1  
Old Sep 28th, 11, 08:57 PM
hobobreath hobobreath is offline

Dan
 
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Location: Tucson, AZ
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Default Chirping Sound from Engine

Hi Everyone. I'm hoping that someone could give me an idea of what could be causing the sound that my engine is making. I purchased the crate motor from Jeg's and without doing sufficient research I ended up purchasing a 383 from Blueprint Engines. I know now that I should have gone a different route.

When the engine is cold and I first start it up the chirping sound is not present. The sound is evident when the oil heats up. The sound is not from any accessory belts (still present when disconnected). I can't seem to pinpoint a particular rocker arm the sound could be coming from. If I am just taking it easy driving the sound is more present than "spirited" driving which oddly enough seems to quiet it down for a while. The sound increases in frequency with engine RPM.

The engine runs fine other than this, oil pressure is @25 at idle 40-50 cruising warm. Temperature is ok.

I have already replaced the lifters. After the new lifters were in and the rockers were adjusted the sound went away for a while, in its place the normal sounds an engine should make, but unfortunately the chirping has come back.

I've attached a link to a video of the sound, I appreciate anyone taking a listen and weighing in. Thanks!

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  #2  
Old Sep 28th, 11, 09:11 PM
wagonman's Avatar
wagonman wagonman is online now
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john
 
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Default Re: Chirping Sound from Engine

Does the engine have a pcv? will the noise go away when you pull the pcv out?

I have heard crank seals make this noise with to much crankcase vacuum not enough venting
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  #3  
Old Sep 28th, 11, 09:24 PM
hobobreath hobobreath is offline

Dan
 
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Default Re: Chirping Sound from Engine

Yes, the engine does have a PVC, however there is no difference when it is pulled out. I'm going to upload another video that really does the noise justice. Thanks though I appreciate it!
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  #4  
Old Sep 28th, 11, 11:52 PM
Steptoe Steptoe is offline
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Default Re: Chirping Sound from Engine

Get a mechanics stethoscope... they are real cheap.
Is the sound more clear /defines when the is up on a hoist listening from underneath?
Was the timing statically set before intial fire up....all in no morethan 36 deg?
was the carb over jetted (rich ) before intial fire up?

But get a mechanic stethoscope 1st...otherwise its all just throwing darts at a dart board blindfolded...speculation.
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  #5  
Old Sep 29th, 11, 02:03 AM
97Z4C 97Z4C is offline
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Default Re: Chirping Sound from Engine

without a doubt, its a rocker noise to me--assuming its a hyd cam --make sure valvw adjustment is 1/2 turn past zero lash--do valve adjustment warm--see if all lifters are primed up by pushing down on rocker arm--is push rod guide plates in right location--is rocker geometry right rocker riding in middle of valve stem--if all this is right , i would bet the problem is that there oil bleeders installed in back of block to restrict oil flow up top and not letting lifters prime up
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  #6  
Old Sep 29th, 11, 07:18 AM
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Everett#2390 Everett#2390 is offline
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Default Re: Chirping Sound from Engine

Agree with Darrell, rocker arm. With valve cover off, engine running, you should see oil from every rocker arm.

Have an oil squirt can ready and pump a squirt into the noisy one, or, dry one.
Nice sound, BTW.
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  #7  
Old Sep 29th, 11, 07:27 AM
BluePrint Engines BluePrint Engines is offline
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Default Re: Chirping Sound from Engine

Dan - I'm sorry you are having issues, but this should be a pretty quick fix. Have you given us a call yet to talk to our techs? I would like you to call me so we can go over this, but to me this sounds like there is a rocker issue. There is probably one that has become gaulded. Please give me a call and we can ship some replacements out right away and get you going. Thanks!

Dru
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  #8  
Old Sep 29th, 11, 08:10 AM
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Default Re: Chirping Sound from Engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluePrint Engines View Post
Dan - I'm sorry you are having issues, but this should be a pretty quick fix. Have you given us a call yet to talk to our techs? I would like you to call me so we can go over this, but to me this sounds like there is a rocker issue. There is probably one that has become gaulded. Please give me a call and we can ship some replacements out right away and get you going. Thanks!

Dru
Product Manager -BluePrint Engines
1.800.483.4263 x 137
Nice to see a builder standing by his product. I think it could have been resolved off the boards had the builder been contacted. In any event, it seems that this should end with good results.

Kev
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  #9  
Old Sep 29th, 11, 10:33 AM
hobobreath hobobreath is offline

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Default Re: Chirping Sound from Engine

I've added another video which the sound is much more pronounced. It seems to come from the top end of the motor. The engine has about 2100 miles on it and has had probably 5 oil changes from work being done to it. When the oil is new the sound is not there, once the oil has about 50-100 miles on it the sound comes back. When the engine is cold and first started the sound isn't there until it warms up a little. The sound sometimes comes and goes as well. The valve lash was set from the manufacturer when the problem started (right from the beginning after break in), I adjusted the valve lash the sound was still present, I paid to have a mechanic also do it (he changed the oil as well) the sound came back. When the manufacturer sent me replacement lifters and I put them in and obviously adjusted the valves again (again new oil) the sound came back after a short time. I do think that the problem could be in part because the car is running too rich. The carb is an Edelbrock 750 electric choke that came with the engine. The mechanic also adjusted it while hooked to the analyzer and I have made no changes to the jets or metering rods in the carb. Has anyone had experience with this sound created from gas-fouling the oil? When the valve covers are off to adjust lash there is a significant amount of oil there and seems to be coming from each pushrod. Thanks again.


Last edited by hobobreath; Sep 29th, 11 at 10:56 AM.
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  #10  
Old Sep 29th, 11, 10:43 AM
hobobreath hobobreath is offline

Dan
 
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Default Re: Chirping Sound from Engine

Hi. I totally understand about contacting the manufacturer in fact I had done that already (long before this post) I also sent them the video. Blueprint sent me out the replacement lifters which I put in but it ultimately did not fix the problem. The manufacturer doesn't contract with any mechanics to perform warranty work, instead they will reimburse for partial labor and parts when they receive the parts and agree they were defective. I just posted on here because I know there are alot of very knowledgeable people here and I knew that suggestions would be made to help me get the problem taken care of for good. I have already had a mechanic look at it as well, he adjusted the valves (prior to the lifters replaced) and changed the oil. The sound was gone for a short time but returned. Dan
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  #11  
Old Sep 29th, 11, 10:52 AM
hobobreath hobobreath is offline

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Default Re: Chirping Sound from Engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steptoe View Post
Get a mechanics stethoscope... they are real cheap.
Is the sound more clear /defines when the is up on a hoist listening from underneath?
Was the timing statically set before intial fire up....all in no morethan 36 deg?
was the carb over jetted (rich ) before intial fire up?

But get a mechanic stethoscope 1st...otherwise its all just throwing darts at a dart board blindfolded...speculation.

Thanks for taking a listen Steptoe. I do have a stethoscope, the sound is definitely coming from the top end. I can't seem to pinpoint it to a specific rocker arm though it seems more pronounced on the drivers side. There is no vacuum advance (per the manufacturer) initial timing was set at 16 per their spec. The timing has no effect on the sound, however. The carb came with the crate motor and I didn't make changes to the jets or metering rods, its an edelbrock 750. A mechanic that looked at it thought it was too rich and adjusted the idle mixture while hooked to an exhaust analyzer. The mechanic also readjusted the valve lash and changed the oil. The sound was gone for a short time but shortly after returned. I posted a new video which the sound is much more pronounced in. Thanks again, Dan.
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  #12  
Old Sep 29th, 11, 11:05 AM
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Vintage 68 Vintage 68 is offline
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Question Re: Chirping Sound from Engine

It is a mechanical fuel pump - is there any chance the oil galley bolt into the pump rod passage is 'too long' and is contacting rod?
Is it a "Roller" cam? Was the right 'roller' push rod (soft tip) used?

I've had mechanical pumps also produce a 'squeek' before, has the pump been rulled out?
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  #13  
Old Sep 29th, 11, 01:51 PM
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joe clance joe clance is offline
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Default Re: Chirping Sound from Engine

have you tried isolating the accessories? remove fan belts to eliminate rotating noise from water pump, alternator etc. manaual trans? try clutch engaged in neutral? auto trans? flex plate loose bent?

doesnt sould like a lifter/rocker to me. more like a rotating chirp from metal to metal contact.
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  #14  
Old Sep 29th, 11, 02:23 PM
hhott71 hhott71 is offline
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Default Re: Chirping Sound from Engine

The transmission mount is loose.

Been there and Done that,,,, it's the last place you'd think of looking, but it is probably it.
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  #15  
Old Sep 29th, 11, 02:42 PM
Steptoe Steptoe is offline
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Steps
 
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Default Re: Chirping Sound from Engine

Quote:
Thanks for taking a listen Steptoe. I do have a stethoscope, the sound is definitely coming from the top end. I can't seem to pinpoint it to a specific rocker arm though it seems more pronounced on the drivers side.
So u have put the stethosope on each of the lifters and studs....
Have u gone around the block, front sides etc
Have u also gone around from underneathe and listened from underneath as I asked?

Quote:
The timing has no effect on the sound, however.
That is not where I was going with the question.
Have u put the stethoscope on the alternater, power stering pump, bellhousing etc etc?

When a tick, or "chirp" is being a real mother to locate, and only happens when warmed up, it is not uncommon it is a collasped piston skirt or cracked piston....which in some cases is heard a little to a lot clearer from under the car....and often with stethoscope on the side or front or rear of the block.
The issue with a colapsed piston skirt (or cracked piston) is it resonates around the engine and often damn near impossible to locate positively....about theonly think that cant be located possivily in most cases.

Cause
1/Pistons assumed to be the same diam by the machinist (and these days its very very rare pistons are not matche in a set..but If someone mixes a box...and happens) and the final hone of each pot is not matched to each piston.
2/A box of pistons has at some stage been accidently dropped
3/On intial fireup the advance has not been prset...engine turned over while the dizzy is turned (common practice) fires and advance is still way to advanced or retarded....this in the 1st couple seconds causes instant un even expansion rates between different alloys causes one of the piston skirts to grab , twist and colaspse.
4/ A lean condition on 1st fire resulting in the same as 3/
Generally it is a combination of 3 and 4 that causes this to happen.

The engine fires up nice, warms up and clicks/knocks/chirps taps
The engine has no drop off in performance
The "chirp" usually stops under medum to heavy loads
Is often more noticable under very light just off cruise condition.
usually heard clearer from under the car on a hoist.

Please when i say "usually" "often" take that literally....that is the nature of cracked and collasped pistons which is rather unque compared to other issues...espec when using a stethoscope, lifters, accessories and stuff.
I have had personal experiance in this and had the fortunate opportunty to have been in forensic labortories on this subject
I do certainly hope this is not the case and it is something far more simple.

The manfacture has fronted up here...and full cudos for doing so....they have publicaly offered to take things further....work with them and for now give them full benifit of doubt.
Cheers
Steps
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