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  #1  
Old Oct 4th, 12, 07:34 PM
jwalsh jwalsh is offline
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Default Odd Problem - Dying Out after 15 minutes

Hello again. Maybe some day I'll be able to contribute but for now I just have questions...

I've got a 69Z (302) that I recently put a restored distibutor and new plugs (gapped to 39) into. I set the dwell at 30deg, timing at 12deg initial (vacuum and all-in timing look good) and the car runs great.

Today I was finally able to take it for what I thought was going to be an extended cruise but when I got 15 minutes from the house it died out at a stop light. It felt like it ran out of gas. I cranked it for a few seconds and nothing...dead.

I pushed it into a parking lot and cranked it over again. It was getting plenty of gas. I took off a spark plug wire and tested spark with a screw driver and the car wanted to start. I put the plug wire back on and boom...it starts right up.

So I turn around and head for home. I get two blocks from the house and the same thing happens. Sure enough, I pull my trusty screw driver out, stick it in the plug wire, get a couple sparks and she starts right up again.

The battery is very weak/old and needs to be replaced but when I check the 'system' with a battery meter, everything is charging at 14.5v consistently.

I thought for sure I burned out the points but it started up again after "the screw driver trick". What the hell is happening?
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  #2  
Old Oct 4th, 12, 08:23 PM
69-Pace's Avatar
69-Pace 69-Pace is offline
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Default Re: Odd Problem - Dying Out after 15 minutes

IMHO it sounds like either a carb float or fuel supply issue or you would be smelling and saying she was flooded. Could also be trash in the tank that gets sucked up to the inlet, then after she starves and dies, it floats back up or away from the inlet screen. Could be weak diaphragm on a mechanical fuel-pump

Could also be heat soak but you would have had to wait longer to get a restart.
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  #3  
Old Oct 4th, 12, 08:36 PM
jwalsh jwalsh is offline
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Default Re: Odd Problem - Dying Out after 15 minutes

Thanks for the reply...I'm almost certain it's not flooding. I don't smell any gas and it starts right up (without even pumping the pedal) after I pull the plug wire and stick a screw driver in there. I checked and double checked the float setting because of another problem I was having with the carb earlier.

I forgot to mention that the battery is so bad that I've had to jump the thing after it dies out. Basically, the car dies, the battery has enough juice to crank the motor for about 5 seconds and then its dead and I need to jump it.

Could a weak battery cause this? That seems too simple. Like I said, once its running it charges at 14.5v consistently.

Last edited by jwalsh; Oct 4th, 12 at 08:49 PM. Reason: typo
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  #4  
Old Oct 5th, 12, 10:54 AM
jwalsh jwalsh is offline
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Default Re: Odd Problem - Dying Out after 15 minutes

I just spent a little time checking some things...I let the car warm up in the driveway.

-Dwell is set to 30*
-Initial timing (vac adv plugged) was set to 19* so I set it back to 12*. I think I may have messed that up last time becuase I didn't check again after I tightened the dist. I checked it this time and it stayed at 12*. The cent. and vac timing look good.
-Float level is good.
-Idle was high (1100rpm) but is now 850rpm.
-I'm getting 8hg manifold vac at idle and 0hg at vac adv. Vac adv # goes up to 4-5hg when I tap the gas. I'm pretty sure there are no leaks...the car dies out right away when I cover the carb.

Another note: I recently changed the pushrods to CompCams Magnums. I set the lash using the CRG method to .026 and then double checked.

Could the lash be suspect? Are things expanding too much when it reaches a certain temp and valves not seating as expected?
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  #5  
Old Oct 5th, 12, 11:35 AM
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Default Re: Odd Problem - Dying Out after 15 minutes

You need Air, Fuel and Spark, and you seem to have those in the right combination. If your vehicle is standard electrical system once started you can disconnect the battery and have it run just fine off the Alternator.

If the battery is weak pull it, charge it to full then put it back in and see if in a few days of non use if it has lost charge. If so you may have an aftermarket radio or alarm system draining power, or an FOE device such as glove box or trunk light that is on all the time most likely draining juice.

If you have no loss, then run it and see if the Alternator is charging it. If that works out to debug the real issue I would run it in the driveway at various rpms for an extended period of time and see if she stall out on you. Without moving you can duplicate fuel delivery scenarios, but you might find a church parking lot to see if power loads are also involved.

I would also take a moment to check all my engine ignition system wiring for cracks, splices and loose connections, also check your coil, as it maybe responsible or your points set is bad.
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Last edited by 69-Pace; Oct 5th, 12 at 07:54 PM.
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  #6  
Old Oct 5th, 12, 01:00 PM
alanrw alanrw is offline
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Default Re: Odd Problem - Dying Out after 15 minutes

Wasn't there a post a while back, same symptoms, coil was overheating after running 15 minutes. There is also the issue of poor idle on a 302 if the valves are too tight but that is a different symptom.

alan
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  #7  
Old Oct 5th, 12, 01:21 PM
stouchton stouchton is offline
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Default Re: Odd Problem - Dying Out after 15 minutes

If the carb has fuel (just check for squirter) then most likely ignition is intermittent. I did have the crap in the fuel line issue mentioned above and it pretty much acts as described - bowl was low enough squirters could not squirt a couple times in a row - they will squirt once depending on carb.

If standard breaker point, and it takes 15 minutes to occur and "fixes" itself a few minutes later, most likely thermal in nature.

Coil is a good one, broken wire internally at terminal most likely. Ballast wire is the other likely culprit - dissipates heat to do its job.

Bypass ballast wire, swap coils - should eliminate ignition sources.
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  #8  
Old Oct 5th, 12, 01:27 PM
jwalsh jwalsh is offline
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Default Re: Odd Problem - Dying Out after 15 minutes

I was searching around and did find a few posts that point to the coil or condenser.

When I check the spark, the color of the spark is yellow. I think is should be bluish in color.

Did some more searching and found that yellow spark could be a bad condenser or coil so I am going to change the coil, condenser and points.

Does that make sense?
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  #9  
Old Oct 5th, 12, 02:13 PM
JERRYS 69 Z JERRYS 69 Z is offline
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Default Re: Odd Problem - Dying Out after 15 minutes

sounds to me like a condenser
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  #10  
Old Oct 5th, 12, 02:47 PM
jwalsh jwalsh is offline
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Default Re: Odd Problem - Dying Out after 15 minutes

I'm gonna replace the condenser, points and coil just for the heck of it. The coil looks like its 100 years old so probably not a bad idea.

I'll report back with the outcome.

Thanks again for the suggestions.
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  #11  
Old Oct 5th, 12, 07:04 PM
67sc 67sc is offline
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Default Re: Odd Problem - Dying Out after 15 minutes

A loose wire in the system providing power to the ignition will do this. I had a bike I could ride for a while and it would quit. Them it would start and run fine. Loose wire.

Bad coil? Seems unlikely.
Points? Bad condenser is a thought.
Electronic ignition? Maybe something there doesn't like heat.

Just a few ideas...
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  #12  
Old Oct 5th, 12, 08:08 PM
MRCOOL_RSSS350 MRCOOL_RSSS350 is offline
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Default Re: Odd Problem - Dying Out after 15 minutes

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwalsh View Post
Hello again. Maybe some day I'll be able to contribute but for now I just have questions...

I've got a 69Z (302) that I recently put a restored distibutor and new plugs (gapped to 39) into. I set the dwell at 30deg, timing at 12deg initial (vacuum and all-in timing look good) and the car runs great.

Today I was finally able to take it for what I thought was going to be an extended cruise but when I got 15 minutes from the house it died out at a stop light. It felt like it ran out of gas. I cranked it for a few seconds and nothing...dead.

I pushed it into a parking lot and cranked it over again. It was getting plenty of gas. I took off a spark plug wire and tested spark with a screw driver and the car wanted to start. I put the plug wire back on and boom...it starts right up.

So I turn around and head for home. I get two blocks from the house and the same thing happens. Sure enough, I pull my trusty screw driver out, stick it in the plug wire, get a couple sparks and she starts right up again.

The battery is very weak/old and needs to be replaced but when I check the 'system' with a battery meter, everything is charging at 14.5v consistently.

I thought for sure I burned out the points but it started up again after "the screw driver trick". What the hell is happening?
I would said is your condenser, by you taking the plug wire off and ground it it creates higher resistance and it will actually give you a hotter spark. also I think you should gap your plugs at 35 and replace that battery.
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  #13  
Old Oct 5th, 12, 10:30 PM
Steptoe Steptoe is offline
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Default Re: Odd Problem - Dying Out after 15 minutes

Quote:
Wasn't there a post a while back, same symptoms, coil was overheating after running 15 minutes.
Yep...
Used be common years go dropping car engines into boats...run fine for 5 or 10 minutes on land then head out for a day fishing...15 /20 mins the engie dies...play with pionts, plugs for a while then mysteriously it fires up, and runs as if nothing has happened and 10 mins later dies...and keeps doing it
The reason... any old coast gaurd guy will tell u, is they droped the engine in, dizzy coil etc,,, But DID NOT also swap the ballist resister wire , or the ballist resister cermic resistor...in other words running a 6 volt coil on a 12 v system
And if one runs a 12v coil on a ballist system the same thing happens
Generally over here coils have a stamp / part number on the bottom, and somewhere there will be a 6 or a 12 indicating the type of coil.
So check the coil, and check the voltage at the ign wire to the coil.
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  #14  
Old Oct 5th, 12, 11:38 PM
Joe Harrison's Avatar
Joe Harrison Joe Harrison is offline
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Default Re: Odd Problem - Dying Out after 15 minutes

About 10 bucks gets you a ballast resistor. Install it and see if it goes away. If it does you wire is bad and you can replace it or just leave the resistor on.
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  #15  
Old Nov 15th, 12, 07:36 AM
jwalsh jwalsh is offline
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Default Re: Odd Problem - Dying Out after 15 minutes

Been a while but finally got around to trying some things out...

I replaced the battery, points, condenser and coil but the issue remains. The coil is a Delco reproduction from D&R.

I'm going to follow Steptoe's instructions and check the voltage at the ign wire->coil but have a few questions.

-Should the voltage be checked while the car is running?
-Should the voltage be 6v or 12v?
-Where/What is the ballist wire?
-How do I know if the ballist wire is bad?
-How do I know if a ceramic resistor should be installed?
-Where do I get a ceramic resistor? Are there specs?

Thanks again for the help.
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