Auto to manual swap - Team Camaro Tech
Team Camaro Tech join team camaro
 
Camaro Parts at SS396.com     
GROUND UP & SS396.com         
Official Sponsor of Team Camaro
   

Auto Insurance



Registered users (free) do not see these large ads

Transmission & Driveline Transmissions and Differentials

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old Nov 15th, 12, 06:34 PM
ks3racing ks3racing is offline

Ron
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: north central In.
Posts: 17
Angry Auto to manual swap

I bought a basket case,partially restored 68,finished project with a 406 and a 350 turbo.13yrs later I am changing to 4 speed,and find the cross shaft does not line up to pivot ball in block!do I have wrong frame to engine stands?I have over an inch of clearance with a HEI Dist to firewall?where can I find #'s for the frame stands and pictures?
__________________
cubic inches are your friend and you cannot have to many friends!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old Nov 15th, 12, 09:12 PM
TJS69 TJS69 is offline
Senior Tech

Tom
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rochester Mn
Posts: 6,875
Smile Re: auto to manual swap

Big Block frame stands move the engine forward 3/4" and 1/2" to the passenger side. Is that what you have or is the pivot ball in the wrong spot on your engine ? 1" clearance with an HEI does say that your engine is too far forward.
__________________
69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 TPI transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Nov 16th, 12, 05:38 PM
ks3racing ks3racing is offline

Ron
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: north central In.
Posts: 17
Default Re: auto to manual swap

Thanks TJS69 is there anywhere I can get pics or #'s for the frame stands before I pull the engine just to try diff ones? Thanks again!
__________________
cubic inches are your friend and you cannot have to many friends!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old Nov 16th, 12, 06:10 PM
X-77 keith X-77 keith is offline
Senior Tech

keith
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Yorktown Va
Posts: 1,387
Default Re: auto to manual swap

It is hard to tell with the engine in the car. Like the last post see if your engine is sitting offset to pass side. Small block and big block look alot alike. The only ones that I know right off the bat are the cowel induction small block ones "they have 4 spot weld looking dimples on the top of each one". Placement of the heater core may help, big block came out of the box, and small block came out of the firewall. If it comes out of the heaterbox they might be big block. Might look in to a big block pivit ball I think it came on a plate bolted to the block instead of screwing the ball in to the block. This might be a fix without taking the engine out. I had a camaro with a plate with the ball and it worked. I did not put it on , it was on when I got the car. Not sure if it was big block, but I have seen that set up on some.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Nov 16th, 12, 06:39 PM
TJS69 TJS69 is offline
Senior Tech

Tom
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rochester Mn
Posts: 6,875
Smile Re: auto to manual swap

Measure with a tape measure, from the air cleaner stud to each fender to see if the engine is offset. If it is close to on center (same measurement) They are small block mounts. If your measurements are 1" different, you have big block stands.

You may be able to cure the problem with a big block z-bar and a frame mounted ball stud.
__________________
69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 TPI transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Nov 16th, 12, 06:50 PM
TJS69 TJS69 is offline
Senior Tech

Tom
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rochester Mn
Posts: 6,875
Smile Re: auto to manual swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-77 keith View Post
the cowel induction small block ones "they have 4 spot weld looking dimples on the top of each one".
That's a new one... those are actually 1969 302/350 frame mounts. Cowl induction had nothing to do with the mounts, it was the 8" harmonic balancer that required different frame mounts. In 1967 and 68 they used different engine mounts for this. These were not interlocking mounts and they switched to new interlocking mounts on high performance small blocks and big blocks in 1969.

The ball stud was in the block for all 67-69 Camaro's. I think they just came out with the bolt on when an engine from an automatic car was swapped in.
__________________
69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 TPI transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Nov 17th, 12, 03:55 PM
X-77 keith X-77 keith is offline
Senior Tech

keith
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Yorktown Va
Posts: 1,387
Default Re: Auto to manual swap

Tom my bad. I thought that the 69 302 and 350 " COWL INDUCTION only " needed the frame mounts with the four dimples , so that the cowl induction air cleaner gasket sealed against the hood. I'm still learning this is my first Z and it was missing alot of parts when I saved it from the crusher. All of my other Camaro s wer big block cars. I guess that the guy at Ricks just took me for a ride, I did'nt know any better. Thanks I'm learning new things about these cars every day. Sorry if my post confused any one.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Nov 17th, 12, 05:06 PM
ks3racing ks3racing is offline

Ron
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: north central In.
Posts: 17
Default Re: Auto to manual swap

Thanks All, engine is to the pass side by 1'' but heater hoses come from firewall,so stands must be BBC and car forSBC ! I didn't see stands on ground up site, GM only?
Thanks again!
__________________
cubic inches are your friend and you cannot have to many friends!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Nov 17th, 12, 05:10 PM
X-77 keith X-77 keith is offline
Senior Tech

keith
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Yorktown Va
Posts: 1,387
Default Re: Auto to manual swap

You can get stands from Ricks, NPD, Camaro Central, Clasic Industries or just check ebay.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Nov 17th, 12, 05:14 PM
TJS69 TJS69 is offline
Senior Tech

Tom
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rochester Mn
Posts: 6,875
Smile Re: Auto to manual swap

No problem... just for your info.

The interlocking "tall and Narrow" engine mounts were the Hi-perf mounts. (302,350's and 396).

The non-interlocking "short and wide" engine mounts were the Lo-perf mounts used on 307's and 327's.

The Energy Suspension poly "short and wide" engine mounts are interlocking.
__________________
69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 TPI transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old Nov 17th, 12, 05:23 PM
TJS69 TJS69 is offline
Senior Tech

Tom
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rochester Mn
Posts: 6,875
Smile Re: Auto to manual swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by ks3racing View Post
Thanks All, engine is to the pass side by 1'' but heater hoses come from firewall,so stands must be BBC and car forSBC ! I didn't see stands on ground up site, GM only?
Thanks again!
If you change the framestands you might have to change the transmission crossmember and the radiator shroud too.

A simpler solution would be to use a big block z-bar and mounting.

How much do you want to change ?
__________________
69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 TPI transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old Nov 17th, 12, 07:31 PM
Eric Kammerer Eric Kammerer is offline
Senior Tech

 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Southeast PA
Posts: 8,302
Default Re: Auto to manual swap

http://pozziracing.com/camaro_engine.htm

Info on mounts and frame brackets
__________________
Eric
69 'vert project big block/TKO 600 RR
68 'vert driver RS clone -- gone!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old Nov 17th, 12, 07:37 PM
Eric Kammerer Eric Kammerer is offline
Senior Tech

 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Southeast PA
Posts: 8,302
Default Re: Auto to manual swap

Also, FWIW, big block Z-bar mounts to subframe in exactly the same place and way as the small block unit, and also fits exactly the same (roughly parallel to firewall) as a small block bar. The BBC Z-bar is a bit longer and the lower arm is a bit different. But otherwise, the block side pivot ball is in roughly the same position when installed on the correct mounts for either engine (likewise for L6, too).

So, there is a big block z-bar; there is no special mounting... A big block bar in your current setup probably will not even reach the block pivot ball, and if it did, it would be crooked in at least the horizontal plane (= bind city).
__________________
Eric
69 'vert project big block/TKO 600 RR
68 'vert driver RS clone -- gone!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old Nov 17th, 12, 08:33 PM
TJS69 TJS69 is offline
Senior Tech

Tom
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rochester Mn
Posts: 6,875
Smile Re: Auto to manual swap

Sorry, Eric you are misinformed on the z-bar.

The small block z bar is mounted to the frame by a small stud.



The big Block z bar is longer and there is a pivot ball on the frame and engine, allowing the z bar to sit at an angle due to the engine pivot ball being 3/4" farther forward.



__________________
69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 TPI transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old Nov 18th, 12, 07:04 PM
Eric Kammerer Eric Kammerer is offline
Senior Tech

 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Southeast PA
Posts: 8,302
Default Re: Auto to manual swap

I am not going to bother digging out the OE SBC z bar in my shed because I can't lift the crate it's in while on crutches. But 100% it has a pivot on frame side.

Look at HB City SBC z bar. Pivot on frame side. I trust their part over Ricks/Eckler import crap. http://www.heartbeatcitycamaro.com/s...lcrank-all-SB/

Look at Year One SBC z bar. Pivot on frame side. https://www.yearone.com/Product/1967-81-camaro/ru1806

I would almost bet that the "fixed" SBC bar end in your pic is just a shipping plug not removed for the photo.

I wish you would stop with the misinfo on BBC installs, but I guess I am doomed to refight the battles as they come up. If a BBC bar was crooked like you say, it would not fit in the same space that the SBC bar does.

It would also be likely to bind; think about what you keep saying. Are the upper and lower linkage holes on BBC unit drilled perpendicular, or at an angle? Every piece that attaches (upper clutch rod, lower swivel for SBC, lower rod for BBC) all go through holes at 90 degree angle and get a simple pin to secure. Are the arms off the tube twisted to allow these components to connect this way? NO!

Both z bars mount the same way; the BBC z bar installed on a correctly installed BBC is not visibly cocked forward. It is same alignment as SBC and L6 bars.

If you can't read the Year One and HBC descriptions and realize you are wrong and don't replace your above image with the shipping plug installed to keep the frame side pivot ball stud in place on the ride over in a giant container ship, well then I give up.
__________________
Eric
69 'vert project big block/TKO 600 RR
68 'vert driver RS clone -- gone!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:09 PM.



Camaros.net - 2009 AutoForums.com