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  #1  
Old Dec 20th, 12, 10:42 AM
makoshark makoshark is offline
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Jeremy
 
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Default Panel alignment...gaps

I have been really struggling trying to get these gaps right. The fender to door gap only has the top bolts in place and shimmed to the max basically. It hard to see in the pictures, but at the top that is a 1/4" gap. It's too close to the door as the door rubs the fender once opened 3/4 of the way. All of these panels are original to the car except the quarter panel. However, the quarter is NOS. The rocker panel was never replaced. Never mind all the dirt and dust on the car.

Any help is greatly appreciated and welcomed!
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  #2  
Old Dec 20th, 12, 01:54 PM
Garfields Maro Garfields Maro is offline
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Garth
 
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Default Re: Panel alignment...gaps

Pix can be decieving, but it appears as though the door-rocker gap at the front needs some adjustment.? Looks like the door needs to go inward to be on the some plane as the rocker ?

Door needs to be set with rocker and quarter panel before setting the fender.
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  #3  
Old Dec 20th, 12, 02:21 PM
Denvervet Denvervet is offline
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Default Re: Panel alignment...gaps

looks like bottom of fender needs to come out to be flush with door. Door and rocker look to be lined up ok. Lots of threads to search on this topic. It is a slow process and little adjustments can make a big difference. Take your time and don't rush it....this is a very important point in your build before paint. Get it all right now before you even consider painting.

take some pics of where door is interferring with fender if find yourself stuck.
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Old Dec 20th, 12, 10:28 PM
makoshark makoshark is offline
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Default Re: Panel alignment...gaps

Door to rocker gap is absolutely perfect. I know the bottom of the fender needs to come out. I'm concerned at the moment about the top of the fender to door gap. I can't add anymore shims to the top fender bolt. It's maxed out and the top of the fender still could come up another 1/8" to match to the door height as well as move outward about another 1/8" to match the door
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  #5  
Old Dec 20th, 12, 11:40 PM
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parkbrau parkbrau is offline
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Default Re: Panel alignment...gaps

Photo 6 shows the door needs to come forward another 1/8 inch. You want the leading edge of the door to line up with the rocker. Then adjust your fenders. My 2 cents.
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Old Dec 20th, 12, 11:59 PM
makoshark makoshark is offline
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Jeremy
 
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Default Re: Panel alignment...gaps

The picture does appear to show the door needs to come forward a bit. I'll check it tomorrow and see if it indeed does need to move forward. I thought I had addressed that when I aligned the doors so long ago, but may have not. It's difficult to get the pictures to show what I'm seeing and feeling. As with the gap at the rocker, the picture shows the door is not aligned with it, but in fact that gap is perfect.
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Old Dec 21st, 12, 12:25 AM
Garfields Maro Garfields Maro is offline
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Default Re: Panel alignment...gaps

Quote:
Originally Posted by parkbrau View Post
Photo 6 shows the door needs to come forward another 1/8 inch. You want the leading edge of the door to line up with the rocker. Then adjust your fenders. My 2 cents.

Not necesarily true, some cars are and others aren't. Quarter to door gap determines placement of the door. Theoretically, if the door is 3/16" shy of the rocker leading edge, fender will be butted up to rocker leaving a 3/16 door-fender gap. Either way is within factory tolerance.

Jeremy, you say you can't add more shims, maxed out at the top. How thick is the shim pack ? Are you sure the door don't want to be moved down ? Almost looks like the bodylines don't match perfectly at the door-quarter ?...

edit; I think you should mount the bottom of the fender too. It may be sagging at the top and will "perk up" with the added rigidity when mounted at the bottom.
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Last edited by Garfields Maro; Dec 21st, 12 at 12:40 AM.
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Old Dec 21st, 12, 12:39 AM
makoshark makoshark is offline
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Jeremy
 
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Default Re: Panel alignment...gaps

I have about 3/8" of shims on the top cowl bolt. I have 5/16" of shims in the fender bolt in the top door jamb area. The quarter is in epoxy primer and does not have any high build primer on them at this time. I have not sanded any on the body line to help define it. I have on the fender and door so I can see it better while aligning. I have checked and checked the door to quarter body line and it appears they are aligned. I guess I need to sand on the quarter to define that line better and check the alignment again. Looks like I need to play with the door alignment more. I thought I had it aligned the best I could get it. I can put a stir paddle in the door to rocker gap at all lengths and get the same fitment.
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Old Dec 21st, 12, 12:52 AM
Garfields Maro Garfields Maro is offline
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Garth
 
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Default Re: Panel alignment...gaps

OK, I'm just throwing some possibilities out there. As I mentioned first off, pictures can be decieving. You're there to see it in person.

I'd say there may be times when 1/2" of shims may be needed....and probably acceptable by factory standards. The threads on the bolts should be long enough.

btw, I edited previous reply about the same as yours. Re-read the last sentence...
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Old Dec 21st, 12, 01:06 AM
makoshark makoshark is offline
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Jeremy
 
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Default Re: Panel alignment...gaps

Here's something about my door alignment that has always bothered me and definitely needs to be addressed. The door to quarter gap, which 'can' be seen in the pictures. As I have already said, the door to rocker gap is perfect. The top of the door to top of quarter alignment is good. From the body line on the door to top of the door, the gap with the quarter is acceptable, but it tightens up from the body line to the rocker at the quarter. How would you fix this area? The door is original and has not been reskinned. They have no rust. I replaced the quarters with NOS quarters. I made sure the door was aligned properly to the original quarter before I removed and replaced the quarter. When replacing quarters, you have so many areas to make sure fit well, so the quarter was welded on with the best fit, with the exception of the door to quarter gap.

I'll attach the bolts at the bottom and see what happens. This is not my first attempt at trying to align these fenders though. I had tried and tried previously to get them to line up with no avail, so I started back over focusing only at the top of the fender first.
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Old Dec 21st, 12, 01:10 AM
makoshark makoshark is offline
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Jeremy
 
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Default Re: Panel alignment...gaps

Also, the original hinges were rebuilt. The drivers side lower hinge was lost, don't know how I did that, after they were rebuilt. I had to order a reproduction lower hinge and that is what's on the car at the moment. I have since found a good used original, but have not put it on the car yet. I must say, the reproduction 67 lower door hinge is junk. Just from opening and closing the door since it was installed has already worn the roller to the point it is about to break off. We are fortunate to have so much of our cars reproduced, but the quality of these repop parts are pathetic.
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Old Dec 21st, 12, 06:08 AM
Sauron67MM Sauron67MM is offline
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Scott
 
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Default Re: Panel alignment...gaps

Quote:
Originally Posted by makoshark View Post
As I have already said, the door to rocker gap is perfect. The top of the door to top of quarter alignment is good. From the body line on the door to top of the door, the gap with the quarter is acceptable, but it tightens up from the body line to the rocker at the quarter. How would you fix this area? The door is original and has not been reskinned. They have no rust. I replaced the quarters with NOS quarters. I made sure the door was aligned properly to the original quarter before I removed and replaced the quarter. When replacing quarters, you have so many areas to make sure fit well, so the quarter was welded on with the best fit, with the exception of the door to quarter gap.
You backed yourself into a corner by doing this. Adjustment alone will not establish proper door to qrt without throwing gaps off elsewhere, the rocker gap for one. Now you have mods to perform. Door to fender contact was mentioned upon door opening. Just add clearance to prevent this. You have to put all the bolts in to evaluate fit. And that mismatch of the lower fender to rocker is common, worse in some than in others. That requires a mod for a perfect match. Just because your car has GM tin does not mean it will line up well; not every one does, and in some areas never did. You have to compromise or start modifying. If you don't align the door to qrt first, you are wasting your time aligning the fender to door. And your door to qrt gap appears very tight under the midline. You do however have the benefit of the RS molding from obscuring the rocker gap inconsistency if there will be one.

Repro 67 door hinges? I was supplied with a set and knew I would not use them. I took the spring out and as no surpise they were very sloppy, a joke in fact. Bushings must be used that establish zero play, and not all do. If you use the detent roller repair kit be prepared for the roller bolt's shoulder to snap under the spring's force. That's why a roller pin is pressed in when GM hinges are rebuilt. How many have repro hinges that are junk on a painted car?

Last edited by Sauron67MM; Dec 21st, 12 at 06:22 AM. Reason: add
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Old Dec 21st, 12, 06:22 AM
makoshark makoshark is offline
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Jeremy
 
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Default Re: Panel alignment...gaps

The plane at the top of the door and the top of the fender is off. The fender is slightly lower than the door. If I readjust the door to make fit better at the quarter, then that will effectively raise the front of the door at the fender. I'm already fighting to get the fender up any higher than I have at this point. This is why I'm basically at a loss on how to proceed from this point.

You mentioned compromising or modify to make fit better. The scale of the build of this car doesn't hold to compromises, just as I don't, so what do I need to modify to make fit better? Keep in mind what I just mentioned above.
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Old Dec 21st, 12, 06:31 AM
Sauron67MM Sauron67MM is offline
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Scott
 
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Default Re: Panel alignment...gaps

First thing you have to do is rebuild your GM hinges. I rebush my own with pins and bushings measured and fit from the parts store, not junk the resto houses sell. Detent roller and roller pins rebuilds are sent to Willie in VA. If I had a Brideport I'd do it myself.
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Old Dec 21st, 12, 06:33 AM
makoshark makoshark is offline
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Jeremy
 
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Default Re: Panel alignment...gaps

All the hinges have been rebuilt. They have no play in them. I am going to dig out the lower GM drivers hinge I bought a while ago and install it on the car today. I'm sure it will need to be rebuilt, but it looks so good it may not. The roller and detent on the hinge are perfect
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