[MarkM]

I'am in the near future going to completly rebuild my front suspension in my 68. My car has a big block with headers. I want to relocate the upper a-arms according to guldstand specifications. The problem I see is even though I will probably need to remove the headers to pull off to the upper control arm, I don't see how these studs can be knocked out with the engine in the car. Has anyone performed this operation and; is it worth the effort in performance, can it be done with the engine in the car. I plan on usuing poly bushings, hotchkis springs and sway bar. Also has anyone used or know of Pro Motorsports spindle extender, how effective are these spindle hightening devices. I'am also interested in Mark Stielows own spindle, I've tried e-mailing him several times at mastielow@aol.com (givin in CHP) to get information on his products but I never get a response.Any advice or comments on my future operation would be appreciated.

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68 468 700R4

[This message has been edited by MarkM (edited 12-07-99).]

[JimM]

I'm afraid I have no answers, but a lot of the same questions. As I understand it, anything to make the A-Arm pivots closer together, or the balljoints further apart will be an improvement. I'm not familiar with the pro motorsports spindle extenders, but the idea seems valid. Where can I find out more about them?

[MarkM]

Pro Motorsports #801-571-6097, the latest newstand issue of hot rod camaros refers to this product, and I belive Hot Rod may have tested them on their "Crusher Camaro" a few years back, but I have'nt look in my old issues yet. The extenders bolt between the upper control arm and the factory spindle (under $200 kit).

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68 468 700R4

[MikeDF80]

I also e mailed Steilow about the spindle kit, and got no response. Hot Rod did test them, and if I remember correctly they did give them a good review. Can you use both the spindle extender and the arm relocation?

[MarkM]

I wish I knew if you could use both, I was thinking the same thing. I don't know why this Mark Sielow guy won't let people know how to buy his product.

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68 468 700R4

[CarlC]

I performed the Guldstrand modification on my '68, along with Guldstrand slalom springs and shocks. The modification works well. I wish that some magazine would do a comparison on the Guldstrand modification vs. the spindle extension. The Guldstrand mod is no cost, but the extenders allow you to go back to stock if wish. As for the engine, you can leave it in the car. If you get to the point of having the a-arms off the car, the studs can be taken out several ways. You can grab onto the head of the bolt with vice-grips and hammer. You can make a special "L" shaped extension to attach to a slide hammer to hit the bolt on the nut end. You may even find that they are not in that tight to begin with. To make the job a bunch easier buy a Stanley hacksaw blade holder. This holder leaves 3-4 inches of the blade unsupported (sticking out the end) so you can get into tight places, and has a small hand grip as well. Costs around $10. Very tight quarters for a reciprocating saw. You will be cutting out a "U" shaped piece from the front and rear of the frame mount. Be sure to radius the corner where your two cuts intersect. I drilled a 1/4" hole inside the intersection of the cutting lines so that I ended up sawing into the edge of the hole, hence creating the radius. Sharp corners are stress risers that can lead to cracks and eventual failure so you want to awoid them. Paint the exposed steel to prevent rust. Watch out for the brake and fuel lines on the RH side. You may have to re-route the fuel line since the rear of the a-arm comes very close to the frame and fuel line. I bent my fuel line a little farther inboard and turned the clamp around to make sufficient clearance. Magazine articals say that you can grind the upper a-arm and not trim the frame. I did not like this idea because it does weaken the arm, definately not something I would like to have fail at high speeds. Once completed it is a very stealty modification. If you have any questions please feel free to fire away.

Good luck

[CarlC]

Sorry for the second post. JimM mentions tring to run both the modification and spindle extensions. Doing this would result in too much camber gain. The idea behind camber gain is to keep the load on the tire equal across its width during cornering. The factory geometry does not have enough camber gain, so the tire/wheel rolls over in a turn with only th outside of the tire being loaded, while too much gain will result in only the inside of the tire doing any work.

[MarkM]

Carl thanks for the info. Did you have your car aligned acording to the specs given for this modification. What spring rate are your springs. Size of sway bar. Did you do the modification after or before your swaybar/springs. Could you tell a differece. Did you do this with the engine in the car. What year is your car. Does Guldstrand ever state what kind of lateral g's thes 1st gen camaros can generate.

[This message has been edited by MarkM (edited 12-07-99).]

[MikeDF80]

CarlC- Did the new springs lower the car at all? How much were they? I got the catalog but it has the wrong price sheet, and there isn't much info about springs.

[Toby T.]

I am currently using an adjustable coilover set up(500 pound springs) with pro shocks and a install kit from superior spindles. I use the spindle extenders also. I am thinking of the a-arm mod of relocating the front a-arm bolt 5/8 of an inch lower than stock.(any comments on that guys?) As for this stielow guy..i have e-mailed him many times also with no response.. I think his name is being used for a new line of products and the project cars are marketing tools to sell them. The e-mail address may be a test to get responses or the guy doesnt give a hoot. I also use wheels(16x9) from vintage wheel works that look like the Trans-am wheels used in 69. I also use a 1 inch herb adams sway bar with hemi ends( no bushings) I have had read some 69 camaros with about the same set up will do about .90 to .95 on the skidpad depending on the type of tires, alignment specs and about 20 other variables. no two cars will be the same even if they have the same parts. Good Luck!

[Toby T.]

oops

[This message has been edited by Toby T. (edited 12-08-99).]

[Toby T.]

What exactly is the guldstrand mod? do they have a web site? is it the same thing i want to do with relocating the front mount bolt for the a-arm and not relocating the rear? The mod I am talking about will help with straight line stability (camber) Thanks!

[MarkM]

I believe the web site is www.guldstrand.com I just asked for info on 1st gen camaros and they sent me a catolog, price sheet, article from hot rod on how to do the modification, and template to drill the holes.

[CarlC]

I did the modification with the motor in the car. I performed a frame-off restoration on the car but did not discover the Guldstrand stuff untill I had the car assembled. The spring rate is probably in the 550#/in range, but depending on the weight of the car this can change. Guldstrand does not publish their spring rates so I took their reccomendation on good faith. I am very pleased. The springs are cut to fit so you can adjust ride height. The front sway bar is 1" diameter with no rear bar. This is plenty of sway bar for the car if you have these springs. I did have the car aligned to the Guldstrand specs at a Goodyear dealership using an electronic alignment machine and watched the guy like a hawk (slipped him a $20 before he started and asked a bunch of questions that I already knew to test his knowledge). If you live close to Guldstrand's facility (Torrance, CA) I think it wise to have them do the alignment. I can only compare the car to what it was like with the stock suspension. In that light, there is no comparison, I wish I had spent the money years ago for all of the Guldstrand components (I got the whole enchilada; front and rear springs, Bilstein shocks, sway bar, shackles, etc.) The front springs were in the $140 range. There are some other companies out there that have similar components but like anything in this ballpark you need to do your research.

[CarlC]

Had to go to a car club meeting so again,sorry for the second post. Lateral "G's" cannot be stated or claimed by any aftermarket company. If they do they are halucinating. Is your ride height, shocks, springs, bushings, weight, tires, rims, air pressure, sub-frame connectors, pivot points, bushings, etc. identical to the car that they claim the numbers came from? If you get a chance take a look at the Guldstrand catalog. Dick Guldstrand discusses the "G" issue and for me it was enlightening.

TonyT: The Guldstrand modification is similar to your question about moving the front A-arm mount except the Gulstrand modification moves both the front and rear. I believe Steilow moved only the front mount in his latest Camaro adventure but he also had totally reworked spindles. I would guess that if did not have access to a machine shop that you could pay $2k do get them made right if you have all the specifications. Too rich for me. MarkM's post above is right on target, Guldstrand will send you the template. Also, how do you like your Vintage 45's?