[HwyStarJoe]

Hey all,

I tried not to make this a long story but I need some input from others who own 2002-2004 Honda Civics (any model) or Accords (any models).

Bought the wife a 2003 Civic in May. Right from day one it "pulled" to the right. We and others who drove it thought it was excessive. If you let go of the wheel, it changed lanes very quickly as if out of alignment or the right front tire was flat.

Took it back to dealer to have them check it out. They did 'an alignment' but it still pulled or drifted (there IS a difference) and the steering wheel was cocked to the left. (unacceptable!) We took it back 3 more times for the same thing and each time they 'did an alignment' the steering wheel was more and more to the left and it still 'drifted' to the right. The fourth time they put brand new Toyo tires on it. Big deal. One of the service techs admitted that there was undo wear on the front tires already after only a few months.

It was a little better each time but I freaked that the steering wheel was turned to the left to the point where if you had your hands at 9 and 3, you wouldn't be able to use the controls on it with your thumbs. I could just imagine what this 'alignment' was going to do to the front tires over time. Unacceptable!

We decided to go the "Lemon Law" route and started arbitration. We don't care if we get a new Civic or our money back.
So, we met with the district service manager AND the regional Honda America rep yesterday at the dealership.

It turns out that "Honda's are engineered to drift to the right in case the driver falls asleep, etc." OK, I can deal with that. They give the wife a 2004 Accord so she can go to work and she calls me from the road.... it pulls to the right!!! Supposedly our Civic is 'within specs'.

We both know the difference and feel of a drift compared to a pull.
How many people here have experienced the same thing with their new Accord or Civic drifting or pulling to the right enough to where you have to hold the steering wheel or you'll hit the curb? Personally, I think it's ridiculous. I've never driven or owned a vehicle that you could not let go of the steering wheel and it still tracked straight... with the steering wheel pointing straight ahead!

I don't feel like we're being snowed by Honda (maybe the dealer). I just want to hear from others that experience this and whether you just deal with it or have tried to have it remedied.

Thanks.....

[jackr]

That does not sound right at all. Most all cars will drift a little to the right if the road has a crown. What you described sounds mechanical. Since it's a new car have you saved all receipts and logged all phone calls etc ?. If so you might be in lemon law territory. The dealer mechanics may not be able to diagnose and fix a problem that does not have a TSB on it. I lemon lawed out a new Dodge truck a few years ago. It took about a year but chrysler did make good and buy it back at sticker price less miles.

P.S. I have owned a new honda accord, guess what, it did not pull to the right.

[HwyStarJoe]

Thanks Jack, but we're well past the requirements for New York states Lemon Law. We're in arbitration already, waiting a formal hearing.

As far as road surfaces go, I've been gifted with very sensitive "butt factor" when it comes to car handling. Even my wife knows which lane makes a car handle differently. We didn't go into this without being able to backup our claims. The very first thing we did was drive it around on different roads in different lanes at different speeds. The tech who drove it the third time in the shop didn't get a half mile from the dealership and he immediately admitted to us both that "Oh yes, I feel it already."

Someone my wife works with had the exact same problem and it turned out that the frame was damaged on the car carrier as it was being delivered to the dealership. I guess they chained it down too tightly or something. I always thought the problem with ours has got to be frame\unibody damage.

[jackr]

Frame damage would react like that. Good luck with the arbitration. Remember do not be emotional when in "those" meetings or talking to anyone from the dealer or zone office. Your car is just metal to them. If you are emotional they will dig their heels in and you will come out on the short end.

[Jason1968Camaro]

My wife has a 2001 Honda Accord and I've never noticed it pulling or drifting to the right.

[68ragtop]

Perhaps a friendly body shop could compare frame measurements to posted specs? Even if this cost you a few bucks, it could be a great help in the procedings..

[ORENCH]

Originally posted by HwyStarJoe:
It turns out that "Honda's are engineered to drift to the right in case the driver falls asleep, etc."

WOW! if I ever visit the US virgin Islands again, I'll never ride on a US spec Honda then! Think it's got to be some kind of frame or misalignment also, although it should show on the alignment machine. I'd take it to a private shop and have a neutral report, just for the records. I've had several Hondas and driven a lot more, without ever noticing something like that, that can't be traced to some kind of part damage or misalignment. Some Hondas need to be adjusted on the front and in the back, even the rears can cause that. Good Luck. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[HwyStarJoe]

Well, they've had it on two different machines (at the dealer) with different techs working on it each time. "It's within specs." my butt!

We're not through... I guess I'll have my favorite shop look at it before the hearing. My buddy there laughed when I told him the story. He's got the latest, state-of-the-art alignment machines so I can get a true representation of what Honda says and what the car says.

[DjD]

Joe one of the new Nissan "HardBody" trucks I owned back in the 80's pulled to the right and the dealership fed me the same line. "It's designed to drift to the right away from oncoming traffic" It pulled, not drifted and they tried several times to correct it at my request without success. I looked into lemon laws and at the time here in CA. If the car was not kept by the dealer for 30 consecuative days or was unsafe to drive (law says you have to keep both hands on the wheel so a pull isn't a safety issue unless you take both hands off the wheel ) and the dealer couldn't fix it in 4 attempts then it qualified to be considered.

I got very fed up with the whole deal and one day I was hanging with a couple of my offroad buddys and a friend of theirs suggested a big rig alignment and frame shop he knew of. I took my mini pickup there and left it for the day. The frame was not bent but they found something in the a-arms that was not to spec. The alignment spec's were within factory tollerences even though these parts were not. This shop made some minor modifications and the problem was resolved. It cost me a couple hundred back then and the dealer refused to pay me back suggesting I had the truck modified and it might void further warrentee claims I may have so I dropped the issue...

I hope your claim with the lemon law gets you somewhere. There's no reason for a new vehicle to pull to the right in my book or have the steering wheel not square when going straight...

[Everett#2390]

No, my daughter's 02 Civic does not drift.

I feel your pain, Joe. My Nissan 350Z Owner's Manual states anything less than 7 seconds resulting in a complete lane change is warrant for repair.

Seven seconds, all four wheels, in the other lane. And yes, the specs were changed to provide for a drift when lack of attention is present.

However, my 350Z and most everything else does drift alittle, anywhere from a one-finger hold to a one-hand hold to correct.

[rolling-robert]

It turns out that "Honda's are engineered to drift to the right in case the driver falls asleep

LMFAO! thats the most ridiculous excuse ive ever heared!

[HwyStarJoe]

Originally posted by DjD:
There's no reason for a new vehicle to pull to the right in my book or have the steering wheel not square when going straight...

Exactly! Every car I've ever owned that needed an alignment (what vehicle doesn't every so often?) came back to me with the steering wheel re-aligned straight. And if not, it was able to be straightened and still keep the front-end aligned.

Everett, the rep did say something about a lane change in 5 to 10 seconds, or something close to that. I may have the numbers wrong. It was a rough day! I never did see anything in the onwers manual about it, and they never mentioned something to that affect is in there, but I'm going to look.
I would think that if a vehicle was engineered and built to drift EITHER direction, that it would drift even faster and possibly uncontrollably when presented with a steep crown or grade in eithe rdirection. I find it suspect that a car would be built so that it drifted at all! [img]graemlins/angry.gif[/img]

Robert, I almost choked when he said that! Give me a break! I was about to tell him how my boot was engineered to.... well, you know.

[ORENCH]

Originally posted by DjD:
The frame was not bent but they found something in the a-arms that was not to spec. The alignment spec's were within factory tollerences even though these parts were not.
There's no reason for a new vehicle to pull to the right in my book or have the steering wheel not square when going straight...

Hey Dennis, you're more than right on your experience here, it looks ± like mine. My wife's Civic, used to respond perfectly when taken to wheel alignments procedures, but one day, my favorite shop guy told me, I'm gonna get your car close to specs, but the frame seems to be bended and you need to take it to a frame straightening shop (he showed me the machine and it won't get to the correct specs #s). I simply blamed my wife, like she punished a poth hole on the road or something , and let the car like that, it was running perfectly after all. The problem was that I replaced the A arm with a cheap one(some Honda ball joints come with the whole A arm ***'y) and then, I had to replace it again after a few years, after that, I took the car to the shop and the specs went all right by themself. [img]graemlins/clonk.gif[/img] It also was the A arm and the shop couldn't notice it. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[HwyStarJoe]

Well, it seems that Honda doesn't want to go to arbitration on this one. We're planning on taking them to the hearing anyway.
From what NY state told us yesterday, Honda usually just gives you a new car. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I had my mechanic put it on their machine yesterday and the rear toe was out of specs. Again. I know my wife drives it like a Ferrari but this is rediculous.
I've got the before & after spec sheets as ammo. This is after 2 (two) alignments at the Honda dealer in November. The shop owner and his mechanic both said "Is this that car that Honda says is supposed to veer right on purpose?". They laughed. Everyone we ask that owns a newer Civic or Accord says they've never had their car veer to the right on any road surface.

We'll see what happens at the hearing. What color should we pick?

[Everett#2390]

Navy Blue looks good. Good luck........