[sci-flyer]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about the different styles for the different years, and also the ones used in the firebirds.

I know of a few people that bought / have the wrong style for their model.

Maybe we can come up with a gallery as a sort of 'spotters guide' for each style and model to make life easier at the swap meets or online auctions?

[Al]

excellent idea. We can put the info together in a techref article.

[paulm]

I have two full sets of 67/8 shakers in the attic. One set of the round and one square. I also have a set of 69 rears up there. I'll snap some pics this weekend.

[DjD]

Lets run with it in this thread and I'll compile the facts and submit them here for review... I know we have lots of coctail shaker threads existing. If someone wants to review and link to the ones that help spell it out, or wants to describe the differences to get this kicked off that would be cool...

I should add, if someone already has the info compiled and wants it published post up!! We'll review for factuality and completeness and add it to the tech ref... I don't mind writing but if it's already done lets use it!! [img]graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

[68Conv400HO]

If part of your purpose is identification for swap meet parts, you may want to include some Firebird discussion too. I have read conflicting information on the interchangability of the dampeners between years and between Firebird and Camaro, particularly for the ’69.

Rumor has it that the Pontiac engineers contributed the vibration dampeners to the 1st Gen convertible body design. See: http://firstgenfirebird.org/firebird...uspension.html

There has also been a lot of discussion on the 1st Gen Firebird Forums; http://forums.performanceyears.com/6...m&s=7286011111 , http://firstgenfirebird.org/cgi-bin/...DaysPrune=1000 , and the First Gen Firebird “List”.

Here’s some part numbers from the Pontiac Parts book for you to compare with the Camaros:
67 RH Frt 9789448 Dampener and bracket
67 LH Frt 9789449 Dampener and bracket
67 RH Rr 3909928 Dampener and bracket
67 LH Rr 3909927 Dampener and bracket

68 RH Frt 9792469 Dampener and bracket
68 LH Frt 9792470 Dampener and bracket
68 RH Rr 9792319 Dampener and bracket
68 LH Rr 9792320 Dampener and bracket

69 RH Frt 9797614 Dampener and bracket
69 LH Frt 9797615 Dampener and bracket
69 RH Rr 9796673 Dampener and bracket
69 LH Rr 3962787 Dampener and bracket

Jim

[paulm]

Cool.... [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[Vintage 68]

Originally posted by 68Conv400HO:
Rumor has it that the Pontiac engineers contributed the vibration dampeners to the 1st Gen convertible body design. See: http://firstgenfirebird.org/firebird...uspension.html -

Jim

Yeah right - and Al Gore invented the internet...

I love revisionist history as much as the next guy - but, the Dampers were employed on Corvairs long before there were Camaros or Firebirds - so much for the 'they helped' theory...
As an additional time line thingy, to help depunk the Pontiac site info, remember that the first test mules were completed by Chevrolet in the Fall of 1964. Suspension and body design were completed in 1965 - including the Dampers ("They were designed by Charlie Rubly of the Chevrolet Chassis Group and the idea came from the 58~59 Thunderbirds that used them for the same reason. Charlie's nickname for them was "Cocktail Shaker" which stuck and is what they are called today.") being added to Convertibles.
Pontiac Division wasn't even given the go ahead by GM management to join the F-Body project until Feb. of 1966 - well after the mechanical design and testing was completed.
Pontiac changes were restricted to minor driveline mods and cosmetic changes at first just by the timing necessary to get the Firebird to production for the 67 model year.

Nice story for their site though...

Thank you for the part numbers! I will try to compare to some I have for the Camaro.

[DjD]

Excellent Jim... I think the shaker idea has to go to the Corvair engs as they had them before the f-bodys did... they may have been used on something else too before that but my memory is drawing a blank on that...

I agree though that the bird is close enough we don't want to overlook info that may pertain to both...

[Steve W]

Interesting and entertaining post Jim. Thanks for the link. However, Pontiac did NOT develop the cocktail shakers for the F body. Alex Mair, Charlie Rubly and Paul King were ordered by Pete Estes to "fix the shake" inherent in the convertible. The only way they could fix it was to employ the cocktail shakers (or seismic dampers). By the way, cocktail shakers were not exactly new technology, as the Corvair convertible had 'em long before there were Camaros or Firebirds. In fact, I think even Ford had a some type type of 'shaker for the T-Bird.

Dennis, as you know, I did a LOT of research when I was sorting out my "cocktail shaker" experience, and there were lots of pics of the ones in the trunk, but not the front. Here's a few pics of the front shakers for the 68.

This one shows the location with the driver's side headlight removed (1968 standard model):


Here are a front pair out of the car. In fact, after cleanup and fresh fluid, these went into the front of my 68:


Hope this helps!

P.S. LOL, as I was searching and posting pics, it seems you guys beat me to the punch in responding to Jim's "Pontiac history". We're not gangin' up on you Jim...thanks for the info!

[ckaram]

Enough of these pics probably floating around, but I'll post for the heck of it.

I got my rears off ebay. Guy said they came out of a Firebird, but I'm not sure. They went in fine, and I practically stole them (a rarity on epay). Curious if anyone can identify if the donor car was indeed a 'bird or a Camaro. Excuse the enormity of this pic. How do I make it smaller?

Thanks!

http://home.comcast.net/~chris.karam/Img_0876.jpg

[ 03-22-2004, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: DjD ]

[Steve W]

Sorry ckaram,
I'd try to help identify the part, but the picture is so small I can't see the details! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[DjD]

Here's a '69 for comparison...

[68Conv400HO]

What a sensitive group.

As I read what you all said and what the Firebird site said, it didn't sound that inconsistant to me. The F-body convert has a problem and an engineer make a recomendation. If Pontiac is also to use the body, a Pontiac engineer couldn't recommend the solution? A technology (existing or not) gets applied to the problem. Maybe, both F-body users study the solution and use it.

Sorry I said anything.

[ckaram]

Hey Stever W, next time I'll blow it up a little larger! [img]graemlins/clonk.gif[/img]

[Steve W]

Hmmm...who's being sensitive now? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Relax Jim,
No big deal, and no need to take it personally. Its just that us Camaro guys have an issue with statements like:
"I think Chevy saw that solution and started putting them in Camaros too. I quess that today these little known canisters with weights and springs stand as a tribute to the superiority of Firebird over Camaro!"
Puhleeeeeeeze! What a load of Baloney!
I think Firebird owners who write such drivel are just a little envious of the fact that without the Camaro, there would not have been a Firebird. (And this from a site that, by inference, purports to be some sort of authority?) The Camaro was first, cocktail shakers and all, and then was given to Pontiac by GM so that they could have a cool pony car too!. Then they put their own spin to the cosmetics, engines and suspension. I think of the Firebird as sort of an upscale Camaro...you know, a Camaro for older guys! (And by that, I mean that the older guys had a bit more money to spend on their cars, the Firebird being a Pontiac, a bit more refined and expensive.)
Personally, I like Pontiacs as well as Chevys. I also own a GTO, and I love the 400 motor! And I AM an older guy! But, I gotta call it when I see it.
Nothing personal, no big deal, and I'm glad you did post. I feel you were trying to contribute in a very positive and constructive way. It will help those that are researching, and as such, it is appreciated. So relax...